A Good Thriller discussion

Amber,
"Functionally illiterate" might be a wee bit strong. While you'd think most people here are avid readers, given other entertainment possibilities people have (TV, movies, video games, bar scenes, sports, and so forth), I'd guess the number of readers declines every year that passes. I probably write more books per year than many people read. ;-) As Dylan said, the times are a-changin'. Whether it's good or bad in the long run, it is what it is.
Am I being too Zen-like?
r/Steve
PS. I lump Twilight (vampires), Harry Potter (elves, werewolves), and The Hunger Games (bad dystopian sci-fi) altogether as badly written speculative fiction and fantasy for the YA crowd. Fortunately we have other choices!

The Hunger Games are sooooo popular I thought I was the only one who didn't get it. The first movie practically bored me to tears--and the plot? Really? Good to know I'm not alone...

I thought Amber was a bit too strong. I thought Cameron was trying to be funny in a sarcastic sort of way. Just by reading Amber's comment, I felt it was aggressive, rude, and just plain nasty.

I like this group. I tell people that I think it is the friendliest group out there. I hope that isn't changing.

I believe everyone is entitled to their opinions. "Different strokes for different folks," yes?! I just think that some people get a little unethical like saying things that they don't like just shouldn't be...ie Twilight or Fifty Shades. I also think that some things are terribly written or may not be great, per se, but that shouldn't be condemned by one when it might bring great joy to another. Who are you, I say?! :)

I definitely would never have thought I'd be reading one of the books I am reading currently, but decided to give it a try when someone suggested it for a buddy read. Not my genre or preference, not necessarily my "cup of tea". But I think it broadens everyone's reading experience to try something new and maybe like or dislike it. But I am open to it. Honestly, I couldn't really stop reading it last night. I don't know how I'll feel when it's done. Maybe it will only be a three. But I find myself engrossed in it nevertheless. A page turner. Definitely unrealistic and I'm not sure how I feel about it but for now I am enjoying the experience of something that is not necessarily for me on the regular.

Since I have an Associate's Degree in Art, a Bachelor's degree in Elementary Education, a Master's in Library and Information Sciences with a School-Certification Add-On, have started on my second Master's in Mental Health and Counseling before I get my PhD.... I would not consider myself "functionally illiterate." Yet, I have read all the Twilight books and own them in hardback and kindle; I own the movies on regular, Blu-ray and digital; and my cat is named Edward. I have read plenty of other vampire books, and know quite a bit about vampire folklore, specifically Romanian. So, I think to call someone who enjoys a light-hearted read "functionally illiterate" is a tad too much. I did not mean to "brag" on my degrees, it is just that somehow in my stupidity I was able to manage to get three degrees, work on a fourth, plan for a fifth, and still find time for the shame that is Twilight. Imagine that.

WELL stated, Autumn! Not boasting at all; simply making one GREAT point. :)

Autumn wrote: "Since I have an Associate's Degree in Art, a Bachelor's degree in Elementary Education, a Master's in Library and Information Sciences with a School-Certification Add-On, have started on my second ..."

I love the Twilight books too! Sorry if people hate them with such passion... but I also don't understand people that categorically refuse to read science fiction at all. I have had to train myself not to call these people "literary bigots". (I got in trouble for that once.) We have to remember that there are people that don't like chocolate (what??) but they aren't called functionally tasteless are they?

BTW, it took me a while to find Cameron's comments and I found nothing wrong with them. Actually found them kind of funny. However, Amber's attack (yes, attack) did bother me.

But, I thought, that Amber can be very passionate about things. I just hope Cameron doesn't take the attack personally. This is normally a very friendly group. I was sad to see such an attack.

Oh, Amber, I enjoy this site immensely. And, I read quite a few books. Anne Rice and Bram Stoker are not for me, but I do respect your admiration and passion for what you do read, and believe it or not Amber, I enjoy reading your posts.
Yes, I did list quite a few genres that I do not read - partly to humor, but still in all seriousness. Amber, my list still leaves millions of books to read - more than I can possibly ever get to. To call me functionally illiterate, or an air head, or to want to smack me because I do not adhere to your rules of conformity is being open minded?
I do not lash out at you for the books that you do read or do not read. I am quite passionate about what I do read, too. But, I do not consider myself an elite reader. I have read Stoker's Dracula - not for me. I have tried to read Anne Rice - couldn't. However, probably the most important thing as a reader is to remember that there are all kinds of books out there for every type of reader and it is not my place to judge those for what they do or do not read.
Please do not consider this as an attack or a lash back, but more of point of information and clarification - that I do read and there is a lot out there for me to read. And that I would not be interested in judging you by what you do read or do not read, in fact, I would not be interested in judging anyone, and Amber I am glad that you are on this site, no matter what you read or do not read.

WHAT ON EARTH?!!! APPALLED I AM!

How many times do I have to say this??!

EVERYONE and I do mean EVERYONE is entitled to their own opinion. I don't care if people read cereal packets or billboards, comics or fairy stories - they're still entitled to an opinion and their likes and dislikes.

What I cannot bear,however, is arrogance. What makes anyone think that their taste is 'best or 'correct' and everyone else is in the wrong? NO ONE has the 'correct' taste and no one is better than anyone else. 'Functionally tasteless' is tasteless in itself and I'm annoyed - really annoyed.

I run a FAIR ship here and I for one embrace the differences because I don't want to be bored stupid by sameness. We might as well all be the same colour of beige if that's going to be the case! NO THANK YOU!!

Furthermore, has anyone seen myself, Sean or Autumn swearing or using bad language on here? NOT ACCEPTABLE.

So, please, with good grace, can we keep things friendly, warm and respect the differences of everyone for all our sakes and enjoy each others' company. Life is hard enough at the best of times without adding unfriendliness and arrogance don't you think?!

Thank you, Janet. My voice of reason. And yes, I do not agree with the swearing.

Here is just the way I look at it. I have a family member who married a guy that is really into vampires. He got so upset with me and discussing Twilight, and other lighthearted vampire lit, that did not "take it (genre) seriously," that he literally stormed off arguing. If you take vampires seriously or think they are real, or argue about what makes them real or not... then I think there is a bigger question there.

Here, Here everyone!! Welcome back, Cameron:)

Cameron wrote: "Oh, Amber, I enjoy this site immensely. And, I read quite a few books. Anne Rice and Bram Stoker are not for me, but I do respect your admiration and passion for what you do read, and believe it or..."

Welcome, Cameron. I'm glad you're taking this with a good grace. I love this site for its friendliness and I hope you will too.

If people would check my "read" list, they will learn I read nearly ANYTHING. Judge me, if you dare!

For what it is worth Janet, I harbored no ill will at all towards Janet and my point was very similar to yours - everyone is entitled to read whatever they wish. This is a friendly place and I also count Amber among my friends here. Now that Groovy cat ....

Autumn:

Does a BS in Geology count as functionally literate? Not bragging. Just saying I have done some reading in my day.

BTW Janet I meant to say I harbored no ill will towards Amber. I will sleep fine, wake up tomorrow and still like her. No problem.

:)

Whatever I said, Cameron, I said to the collective. To get my point across to everyone. My post landed seconds after yours so we were writing at the same time. However you feel is up to you. But this is not the first time book/reading snobbery has reared its ugly head within the group.

I don't care what anyone reads. Enjoy what you read, share your thoughts but no one has the right to look down on anyone else for their choices. My message goes out to the group has a whole.

Thank you all in anticipation.

Amen, Janet!

I can be guilty at times and I hope people will call me on it when it happens. Don't let people judge you by what you read.

As a side note, when the e-book readers first came out, apparently this was one of the reasons they became so popular. You could sit on the bus, on the train, by the side of the pool, etc, reading anything you wanted and no one would know what you were reading. (Apparently romance book sales went through the roof!)

Thank you Janet.

Is is so important to remember we are all so different, we enjoy different things.

I have full respect for everyone, but do get annoyed, like Janet, when people are rude to each other, we do not need it, we come here to enjoy ourselves.

This group has grown because we are renowned as a friendly and fun group.

let's keep it that way.

It's great all being different !

Being different and liking different types of books makes life interesting. I never thought I'd like a book with werewolves and vampires but I loved Gail Carriger's Soulless series! And all because I was exposed to it through GoodReads:)

Amy sums it up well: Different strokes for different folks. One of our great freedoms is that we can all read what we want to read and enjoy reading. Why wouldn't we expect reading choices to be as varied as human nature itself? As a consequence, let's not lose sight of the title of this thread. We're only discussing preferences here.
All, maybe my Celtic heritage is showing, but I did say "wee bit strong..." and I meant wee bit. Again, preferences are being discussed. For the three series I mentioned, though, I was focusing on the technical--from a writer's POV, they were poorly written. So was Fifty Shades. That doesn't mean readers couldn't enjoy them. It only means that enjoyment could be augmented.
Autumn, I'd make two comments about your long degree list. First, degrees are listed on resumes or CVs, and tell us what a person has done in her/his past life. The day has long gone where that's strongly correlated with what one does in future endeavors, or how successful they will be at it. Second, degrees also don't have much correlation with literacy or brainpower. I used to work with people who were functionally illiterate but could write great C++ code! Again, different strokes for different folks. Maybe my sample size is too limited (derived from years of observations, though), but human nature is too wonderfully varied to try to simplify everything to a list of degrees.
r/Steve

Groovy,
You might want to read my movie review of Mockingjay Part 2. That's in my blog (apologies for the self-promo).
Bottom line: you aren't alone!
r/Steve

What you see as a "wee bit strong" might be construed offensive to others. Hence our different tastes and what is acceptable to one and not another. Like it's been said different strokes for different folks. And when you're trying to keep a group of very different people happy - it becomes a nigh on impossible task.

I have the Hunger Games trilogy on my Kindle. The reality is I'll probably never read it. Watched the first movie and didn't like that much either. Yet I have close friends that loved it. My eldest really enjoyed the books. My kids have watched Twilight. Within one family our tastes diversify and merge like two squiggly lines parting and meeting.

As a human race we can't agree on any aspect in life - why would books be any different?!

Janet, I love your last line. Let's celebrate diversity, not expunge it!
r/Steve

Different strokes… yep. Reading is also not for only one reason.

I read for pleasure and distraction, for educating myself, for understanding, for projects, to keep up with current events, what have you. I don't read the same kind of book on a plane [something light] that I might read at home when I have periods of uninterrupted quiet [something denser, more serious].

That being said, I do not personally care for bodice ripping romances, horror, war, books about supernatural creatures … but this isn't meant as criticism of those that do enjoy such books because I try very hard to not be judgmental. Reading is above all, personal.

The one area where I am judgmental is my intolerance for very badly written books. Whether it's bad spelling, grammar and structure to ill formed ideas or ridiculous plots or premises … most of these, of course, are found in self published books for eReaders. The reason I might download one of those is that one occasionally finds an interesting gem. Two that I read in recent years went on to be picked up by mainstream publishers. But those two, as examples, were smartly written. So… ever hopeful… if a book description is tantalizing, I'm willing to give it a chance. If I've downloaded a bad one, it's pretty obvious within a few pages … delete, delete, delete.

Marilee, "...most of these, of course, are found in self published [sic] books for eReaders." That's a standard mantra, but, because you're talking about ebooks, let me just say that some of the worst ebooks I've ever seen are Big Five e-editions of old print books--it's abusive. As a reviewer, I review both self- and traditionally published books. I read twice, once like someone on an R&R gig, and another time with my editing eagle eyes. I haven't found much difference in general as far as writing basics go, and, by and large, the traditionally published fiction books are often formulaic and boring when in comes to major Big Five authors. The new and interesting stuff comes out first as self-published--case in point, The Martian.
Choosing a book, any book, for your reading pleasure, education, etc. is like playing the lottery--you can't win (find those gems) unless you play. Because self-published books are often much less expensive than traditionally published, I can afford to play the lottery more times with the former. Of course, many books I review are free, a "payment" for an honest review, if you will (but how can you review the book if you don't have it to read?), so price is irrelevant in many cases.
r/Steve

Cameron wrote: "Autumn:

Does a BS in Geology count as functionally literate? Not bragging. Just saying I have done some reading in my day."

Haha, Cameron! I would say that a BS in Geology would count as being functionally literate! Just do not ask Sheldon on The Big Bang Theory!

Everyone, it is plan and simple, everyone reads something different. I know I was in a group that read Southern Fiction. I decided not to be in that group anymore because a "lighthearted read" to them was Their Eyes Were Watching God by Zora Neale Hurston. I was suggesting fun reads like the YA lit book The Watsons Go to Birmingham - 1963 by Christopher Paul Curtis or Karin Slaughter. They were having none of it. Now, there was nothing wrong with what they were reading, but it was just not my cup of tea.

Everyone reads something different. You may stick to the classics. You may read only thrillers and mysteries. You may read YA Lit, or even (gasp) a little mommy porn on the side. We are all different. Books all affect us a different way. Sometimes when you say "I will NOT read that," you are closing yourself off to a whole new world you did not know you would like. I know in my librarian class in college I once said, "I do not like Sci-Fi or Fantasy." The room let out a noise of disbelief. The teacher said, "Do you like Harry Potter?" I told her yes and she said, "So you do like it!" There I was closing my mind to something I did not even know I loved.

No one should ever feel guilty about reading something that someone else feels is unconventional. Reading can be personal. Just because you read one thing or another does not define who you are. I read gritty, graphic, grisly thrillers. Am I that way? Far from it. In fact, my mother asked me how I could read such terrible things. I just explained that it was so far from my personality that I found it fascinating.

I think when this thread first started I said I did not really read romance. And things like Nora Roberts still stands. (Although, someone once made me read one and I enjoyed it more than I want to admit.) But I do like romance after all. I find myself reading these days books like Captivated by You, The Edge of Never, Beautiful Disaster, and the likes. Are they quality works of art? Uh, no. They will not be receiving the Nobel Prize for Literature anytime soon. But they are fun. Am I ashamed that I read them? No, not really.

Like Marilee said, reading is for all sorts of things. It is can be for fun, for pleasure, to educate you, to provoke your mind and thoughts and emotions. It can be used to persuade, to entertain, to serve as a distraction from your current state of mind or situation. We can turn to it as medicine for healing our hearts and minds. We can turn to it to learn forgiveness and get peace. It is simply about you and what you want to get out of it.

I do not want anyone here to feel like they are attacked for what they read or do not read. That is between you, the library, or kindle, your bookstore, etc. :) Live it up. Take a challenge and read something you say, "I would never read that," and see if you feel the same way once it is all said and done. You may find a new genre like I did.

Autumn et al,
I'll pretty much read (and review) anything when it grabs my attention. The "Steve's Bookshelf" webpage at my website contains books that I think are A-1--there are more non-fiction books than fiction, although I only write fiction (correction: I have one published poem found at the beginning of The Collector!).
That said, I've grown a bit more unforgiving over the years about bad writing. When I review a book, I'll finish the book; when I find a dud that I'm reading for R&R, I might not. Sometimes I detect the dud right up front from the blurbs and "peek inside" on Amazon.
In general, duds I find aren't genre specific or specific to self- or traditionally published books, and I'm the first to admit that another reader's opinion might differ.
Reading tastes are subjective, but the thread asks us to spell out what genre(s) we don't read. Maybe we should add the word "usually" there. I don't usually read fantasy, for example, but I read (past tense) Harry Potter...and observed that Rowling got more verbose, repetitive, and less focused with every book in the series. Anyone read her detective stories? I'm wondering if she just started getting tired of old Harry.
As for taking a challenge, I often do so because a friend, relative, or another author recommends a book. My TBRoR (to be read or reviewed) list grows faster than I can read, even though I'm a speed reader. It's like panning for gold (I tried this in Alaska)--there's always the chance I'll find some more nuggets to add to "Steve's Bookshelf"! (I made about $20.)
r/Steve

I never enjoyed Twilight kind of books, and Don't like Romantic and sex themed novels like Fifty Shades of Grey. I dislike stuff like Life of Pi too. I can't enjoy Women's fiction, but that's probably because I'm a guy. I can't stand some biographies that get boring and drone on and on. I've completely stopped reading some of the biographies I bought because they were so interminable and dull.

Will,
Yep, biographies are a mixed bag. I just finished one about Churchill's war years--all sorts of interesting details, especially the scalawagging by FDR, Eisenhower, and Papa Joe--but it was over 1000 pages and a slog at times. I have another one about Eisenhower on my TBRoR list (both Christmas gifts from 2013).
You bring up another interesting point. There are definitely gender differences in reading tastes. First, maybe it's just my perception, but I think women read more. Second, their tastes often go far beyond thrillers and suspense novels, especially when the protagonists are men with the only women in site being their romantic interests (many movies are like that too). Considering the first point, maybe the second doesn't make sense, at least for reading.
Ladies, jump in. Am I completely wrong?
r/Steve
PS. (Self-promo alert) Many of my protagonists are women.

I hope Amber's okay, though...

Steven wrote: "Will,
Yep, biographies are a mixed bag. I just finished one about Churchill's war years--all sorts of interesting details, especially the scalawagging by FDR, Eisenhower, and Papa Joe--but it was o..."

I concur with your idea about Gender differences in reading tastes. I have noticed that in booky Christmas adverts on the TV or in a magazine, it's always a Woman who curls up to read by the fire in a Christmas jumper, or gets a quick break to read. In said adverts, a man doesn't tend to be that person who sits and enjoys a book.
This is just my personal assessment of what's happening. Companies find all sorts of new ways to try to appeal to consumers, and I guess women reading is one of the things they think works

I saw what you said about biographies being a mixed bag, and I agree. I have also found that some biographies have been good reads.
I shall bring up Arnold Schwarzenegger's Total Recall.

Will, Total Recall = Arnold's biography????? I'm confused....
r/Steve

Groovy wrote: "Amber, didn't see that coming, potty mouth and all. Hope Cameron was frightened away..."

Wasn't my intention frighten Cameron off.

Steven: Good point about it possibly being a bit strong but I am NOT like those who can actually AFFORD the other entertainment options you mentioned.

And yes, you're just a little bit Zen.

Amy: I wouldn't mind either of them if they were actually WELL written, and in the case of TWILIGHT, showed some RESPECT for the original Romanian folklore of vampires. As Steven says later in this thread about his own POV, this is from the POV of an English major.

A few years ago, I would never have thought of reading THE DRESDEN FILES by Jim Butcher, either, but now I enjoy them...with the exception of the one called GHOST STORY. Too slowly paced. Paced as slowly as watching your lawn in winter.

Autumn: The women I was talking to Cameron about really were what I call "functionally illiterate." It means you KNOW how to read but you just don't BOTHER. As far as movies go, it also means that you don't know the difference between Bela Lugosi's Dracula and Sir Christopher Lee's Dracula either, which is what these women at the Lincoln Theater were.

My Dad, to be polite about it, would have called them "as air headed as Donald Trump."

Cameron: Well written reply to what even I realize might have sounded like an attack on you. I apologize if I offended you for thinking that you didn't bother reading at all, as I may have implied in my question.

As I told Autumn in my previous comment on this mass reply, the women I was speaking of in the story I was telling to you sounded like they didn't BOTHER to read ANYTHING at all given the fact that one of them really DID say "Bram Stoker? Anne Rice? Who are they? What's folklore?" Which is why I told Autumn that my Dad would have called them "air heads."

What I really found to be unforgivable in that situation is that the one asking the question was old enough to have been my MOTHER! My mother may not have had much more than a sixth grade education but even she would have acted like she knew EXACTLY who Stoker and Rice were as well as knowing what folklore is...even if she didn't.

Kirsten: Sorry I forgot to reply to you earlier in this post but I wanted to apologize to Cameron first. You're right about my passion. And in light of your own remark about your reading list I judge you to be as ECLECTIC as I am. Or would you and I be considered "eccentric?"

As you can see from Cameron's reply, I don't think Cameron DID take it personally.

Will: What you said about some of the bios you stopped reading sounds a lot like what I said elsewhere about BECOMING LAURA INGALLS WILDER.

Steven (again): I don't think you're that far off the mark about women in general, though maybe not most of the women on this particular thread.

Using myself as an example, my list of finished books for the 2015 Reader Challenge runs the gamut from kid's books about the Padawan years of Obi-Wan Kenobi to biographies of the historical Wallachian prince who INSPIRED the fictional Count Dracula and a lot of stuff in between...even a couple books by Rob Bell. https://www.goodreads.com/user_challe...

Groovy: Yes, I'm OK...just took me forever to get here. I only get 3 hrs. online at the library.

Agreed, Groovy!

Janet wrote: "What you see as a "wee bit strong" might be construed offensive to others. Hence our different tastes and what is acceptable to one and not another. Like it's been said different strokes for differ..."

Amber:

We're good. Apology accepted. No worries.

To everyone else, basically yes, I was saying that I don't like dystopian i.e. - The Hunger Games, and books like Twilight series, and pornography like the 50 Shades series. I felt that I had to throw some examples out there. However, I am fully aware that there are many out there that love the books that I mentioned that I did not like. Could you imagine if all radio stations played only music and talk shows that Cameron liked? What kind of a world would that be? Somebody pinch me Groovy? No, really, there has to be something for everyone out there.

Janet wrote: "What you see as a "wee bit strong" might be construed offensive to others. Hence our different tastes and what is acceptable to one and not another. Like it's been said different strokes for differ..."

Janet:

Did not mean to hit the reply before I posted previous message. However, I don't know if I really agree with your last line of that post. ; )

Total Recall is the name of Arnold's biography

Will wrote: "Total Recall is the name of Arnold's biography"

What? It's not called "I'll Be Back"?

Kirsten *Dogs Welcome - People Tolerated" wrote: "Will wrote: "Total Recall is the name of Arnold's biography"

What? It's not called "I'll Be Back"?"

This made me giggle so hard at my desk. Someone even called me out on it!

Cameron wrote: "Janet wrote: "What you see as a "wee bit strong" might be construed offensive to others. Hence our different tastes and what is acceptable to one and not another. Like it's been said different stro..."

Thanks.

Kirsten: LOL.

Question is does Arnie have total recall?!! ;) Isn't there another Terminator movie with GOT actress? My 'total recall' is a bit dodgy!

Cameron wrote: "Janet wrote: "What you see as a "wee bit strong" might be construed offensive to others. Hence our different tastes and what is acceptable to one and not another. Like it's been said different stro..."

Lord-a-mercy, Cameron. What kind of world would that be?:)

Along the line with Kirsten, he used to have another saying in his movies: "Bad idea". So I would have thought his biography would be:

"Bad Idea--Life with my secret son"...

I'm sorry, I'm still disgusted at him for that:)

Kirsten *Dogs Welcome - People Tolerated" wrote: "Very sad about many of you putting off "genre" fiction because of different reasons. A book has to be believable? Ugh. I'd hate a life where all I read was believable fiction. Also, when it comes t..."

Kristen:

I've noticed this particularly true when you have to read something for high school or college when you don't really have time like say Dickens, Steinbeck, Twain, Tolstoy, Bronte or Joyce to name a few. One cannot hardly stand to read them in school. However, give it 10-20 years and one may find that they actually really do enjoy these authors and their works.

Steve wrote: "You should try Cormac McCarthy his are westerns but as good as anything out there:)

I dont like romance novels, or horror, but I will read anything if its well written and inventive."

Ditto on McCarthy.

In 496, Groovy wrote:

Lord-a-mercy, Cameron. What kind of world would that be?:)

Ha, ha, ha, ha, Groovy. You be funny. ; 0 Really.

Cameron wrote: "Kirsten *Dogs Welcome - People Tolerated" wrote: "Very sad about many of you putting off "genre" fiction because of different reasons. A book has to be believable? Ugh. I'd hate a life where all I ..."

I call horse hockey on Dickens! It's been almost 20 years since high school and I STILL can't stand Dickens.

I say the same thing about Shakespeare. We had to read his books in high school, and I couldn't understand one word. It gave me a literary headache! The only way I understood what his books were about was when I saw the movie...