A Good Thriller discussion

Steven wrote: "@ Amber, LOL: I guess we know now that you don't like dystopian sci-fi!
Genres in general do readers a disservice, of course, in the sense that categorizing a book as a certain genre might keep us ..."

That's the ONLY time I have really let loose with how I REALLY fell about dystopian novels.

Cameron: Never read either of those.

Steven (again): That's a common sense idea, but teachers are as good at doing a vampire like shudder when confronted by anything that REEKS of common sense as politicians are. "Maybe "not completely depressing" should be part of the definition of "good story"?"

Kirsten: You're probably the only one among the four of us to NOT see dystopians for what they ARE: "a completely depressing huge, bleak panorama" as Steven says.

Steven (yet again): You don't need to play Devil's Advocate with me since for the most part, I agree with you.

@ Amber,
Aw, but it's more fun to be devilish than good, right? LOL. I usually don't see most issues as black and white, but fifty shades of gray (at least). Maybe that's just a lack of commitment....
My father called politicians "failed lawyers," bless his soul, but always tried to keep peace between the Truman Dems and Eisenhower Republicans in our family. (No lawyers or politicians there.)
My main problem with teachers during my HS education was that they seemed to cater to the average. But in the intro to his physics texts, Feynman quotes someone to the effect that education is almost superfluous for the brightest students (I think it was Gibbons).
I'm many watts down from being the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but I'll have to say my HS English teachers were a sad lot--my most useful course was touch typing, and I taught myself to speed read.
My first good English teacher was N. Scott Momaday, a Native American Pulitzer Prize winner--his TAs still sucked, though (future HS English teachers?).
Fridays are good times for whining....
r/Steve

Good question, Steven. Re: " more fun to be devilish than good, right?" *groans at the reference to the badly written and worse edited erotica/porno books*

*snorts derisively* Average? There's no such thing anymore. Have you seen how many parents think their kids are like the ones in Garrison Keillor's fictional Lake Woebegone, MN?! "...and that's the news from Lake Woebegone where are the men are manly men, the girls are pretty and all the children above average" as he ends that particular segment on his Minnesota Public Radio show A PRAIRIE HOME COMPANION. I get to hear it on the St. Louis, MO. NPR affiliate, KWMU.

TAs generally suck because they don't get paid, I think.

@ Amber,
I was a TA. The pay wasn't great. It's basically slave labor for the U's, though. I even had to teach some small, regular classes on occasion. Good experience, maybe, for little pay.
The TA I had in Momaday's course was really stupid. He had a fixation on anything Freudian, so all I had to mention to get an A with him was relate a poem or novel to something Freudian, even as a question (was the writer in love with his sister or mother? for example). Momaday compensated for all that, teaching me to love poetry, for example (can't write it worth beans, though).
Unfortunately, many parents live vicariously through their children's success. I can't explain fathers fighting at Little League parks otherwise, for example. That's carried to extremes when a parent says something like, "Grandfather Moe was a lawyer, Father Curly is a lawyer, so son Larry HAS to be a lawyer." I let my kids be what they wanted to be. And I'm just happy they stayed away from drugs, liquor, and smoking--I couldn't manage the last two, so that's success in my mind's eye.
r/Steve

Thank God my parents weren't like that with me! Re: "Unfortunately, many parents live vicariously through their children's success. I can't explain fathers fighting at Little League parks otherwise, for example. That's carried to extremes when a parent says something like, "Grandfather Moe was a lawyer, Father Curly is a lawyer, so son Larry HAS to be a lawyer." I let my kids be what they wanted to be."

For most of my (early) life Mom stayed home and Dad worked. Once I entered 4th grade, though, Mom reentered the workforce. And she stayed there until I had graduated college fourteen years ago.

Unfortunately, I haven't worked in 13 years, partly because I have been declared legally unable to work due to problems that are side effects of a 2-1/2 week long coma and having died TWICE from heart attacks...long story.

Mom and Dad simply wanted me to do the best I could with what I was given.

That said, I think we've gotten WAY off topic here! LOL.

Amber wrote: "Steven wrote: "@ Amber, LOL: I guess we know now that you don't like dystopian sci-fi!
Genres in general do readers a disservice, of course, in the sense that categorizing a book as a certain genre..."

Amber:

Again I say thanks.

You're welcome.

@ Loretta,
A lot of your so-called classics in sci-fi are hard sci-fi--that's pretty much what I write, because I grew up reading those classics (alas, when they weren't called classics--it's a bit like being a Beatles fan). Books like Hunger Games (more a fantasy) and The Time-Traveler's Wife (a romance) aren't hard sci-fi, so we're in violent agreement.
r/Steve

In general, I won't read anything, regardless of genre, that doesn't seem interesting to me.

Loretta, you might actually like Will Hill's Department 19 series, even though it is about vampires, IF you liked Frankenstein since the monster is one of the good guys in this series.

The BEST news about this series is that the vampires DO NOT SPARKLE! And almost all of them are kick ass fighters.

Don't read: Romance, Horror, YA, and most Sci-Fi.

i dont read vampires werewolves or romance sex erotica

@ Lisa, I think I've said this before, but I'm with you there. Same for my writing. I've written only one zombie short story and two short stories about ghosts. There are some romantic interludes in some of novels, but they wouldn't even make a cable TV producer blush. As a reader, I'm more forgiving about that too, as long as it fits as part of the story and isn't a reflection of the Hollywood syndrome that the macho hero needs a romantic interest (my MCs are often women, so I guess Hollywood wouldn't even be interested?).
I just posted a review of an ebook thriller that was a wee bit over the top with the sex and violence--maybe the author was looking for a "shock factor"?
r/Steve

Steven, the only thing shocking to me about stuff like that is that OTHER people can still find it shocking.

@ Amber, Agreed, but the book authors and film directors seem to be trying to outdo each other on the sex, violence, and foul language, so someone must want more? I have other stories to tell; so do many other authors that I read.
r/Steve

Yep. You'll see that in the books on my list of Currently Reading: https://www.goodreads.com/review/list...

Standard crime thrillers. I suppose it's because when I was younger I was an enthusiast of Agatha Christie. Since she created a sizable number of the most utilized plot devices and tropes, reading contemporary murder mysteries is rather underwhelming.

Samuel wrote: "Standard crime thrillers. I suppose it's because when I was younger I was an enthusiast of Agatha Christie. Since she created a sizable number of the most utilized plot devices and tropes, reading ..."

That's why Harry Dresden and Remy Chandler are such interesting characters. Each detective in his own way throws the tropes and plot devices on their heads. Harry because he's a wizard and Remy because he's a Seraphim... .

Romance and westerns

Romance and westerns

Romance and westerns

I absolutely hate any genre that's filled with explicit erotica and four letter words, or anything written just for the shock value...

But to be more specific, I don't like vampires, werewolves, especially if they're about amateurish boys, westerns that aren't written by Louis L'more (I know I misspelled it:), romantic comedies, historicals, and books without HEA...

You should try Cormac McCarthy his are westerns but as good as anything out there:)

I dont like romance novels, or horror, but I will read anything if its well written and inventive.

I'm not a fan of science fiction or fantasy.

What have you tried, Mona? That's a sweeping statement. They come in so many varieties these days.

I don't read romance novels or badly written erotica like Fifty Shades.

I don`t really like romance but still try to incoporate a few per year

I made the mistake of watching the 50 Shades movie. The book is bad, the movie is ..... :-(

Bad as it is, Janet, can it be WORSE than the movie the critics all agree is the single worst movie in cinematic history, Ed Woods' PLAN 9 FROM OUTER SPACE?

Amber and Janet,
Let's not forget some other classic "flops" like Ishtar. :-)
r/Steve

Worse than Bikini Vampires? Grave of the Vampire? Morons from Outer Space?

I avoid books with pervasive profanity, and explicit sex scenes, abuse/torture especially to a child.

C. wrote: "I avoid books with pervasive profanity, and explicit sex scenes, abuse/torture especially to a child."

Good idea. It's just too bad they don't come with a warning label, though you can usually tell with some authors. I don't mind sex in a book. But excessive (and useless) profanity disturbs me. Like Stephen King, not only is the profanity pervasive throughout the book but he has everone doing it! Children, grandparents, the kindergarten teacher...

Groovy wrote: "Worse than Bikini Vampires? Grave of the Vampire? Morons from Outer Space?"

Never heard of those three.

Amber, be thankful. They're aired on one of those backwoods channels almost every week. I don't understand how some of these movies get made--I mean, really!

Kirsten, I had no idea Stephen King had such a gross, filthy mind. He used to be one of my favorite authors until I found this out. I only saw his movies on broadcast TV where they were obviously filtered. I never read his books--thank goodness! To have no boundaries when it comes to profanity, even incest, is going too far. I no longer respect him.

I wouldn't go that far, Groovy. And some of his more recent books are quite good. And not as bad. Joyland - his foray into pulp noir - had no profanity that I can recall. His recent book Revival I enjoyed too. It may have had some profanity, but not that much and it matched the characters.

That's good to hear. I just wish some of my favorites, like Carrie and Cujo, were spared:)

I haven't read those. But I think he went way too far when he did Tommyknockers. I suppose he was going for atmosphere, but it doesn't work when you have absolutely everyone doing it and the profanity was over the top. It was way too inventive.

C,
I support your position, but unfortunately these things happen, so my take is that we can't put our heads in the sand. Books that talk about the ills of our society might not attract the romance and cozy mystery crowd, but an author whose protagonists do something about them. While one can write a mystery or thriller that treats no major issues, those aren't the kind I like to read (I do--I just reviewed on--but they're the exception, not the rule).
(Self-promo follows.) In my novel, The Collector, Detectives Chen and Castilblanco go after a sex-slave and child porno/snuff ring. One of my motivations was seeing a documentary on child prostitution at the Montclair Film Festival. That doc was real; my story is fiction, but maybe it will motivate some to keep things as fiction, not reality?
r/Steve

Groovy wrote: "Amber, be thankful. They're aired on one of those backwoods channels almost every week. I don't understand how some of these movies get made--I mean, really!

Kirsten, I had no idea Stephen King ha..."

I'll take your word for it on how bad they are. Only King story I can stand is the Tom Hanks movie version of THE GREEN MILE.

Steven: Child and snuff (regardless of age involved) are the ONLY forms of porn that should be illegal...just like crush vids.

I don't read books that shouldn't exist, like Twilight or 50 Shsdes! The former is bad writing, the latter is based fanfiction teaching adults what BDSM Is -not-. Except they all think it is legit, proper D&S plays and rules, ugh.

On a serious note I don't any read romance supernaturals as they are all like twilight, dumb doormat damsels in love with an unrealistic alpha male.

LOL! I actually loved Twilight and didn't find it bad writing at all. I won't read 50 Shades because I don't read books with BDSM.

I read quite a few romance supernaturals. Can't really explain why. But many of them are NOT dumb doormat damsels.

Well, here's the list in no particular order:
vampires
Sci-fi
dystopian - i.e. - Hunger Games
Twilight series
Romance
Pornography of any type like 50 shades
YA
The bad neighbor thing has been way over done
No Zane Grey types
And, last, but note least, I hate to be about 150 pages into a thriller and the protagonist gets wounded badly and then suddenly re-generates a hand or something. Or they turn out to be a futuristic teller, or anything but a real human - so there goes 97% of Dean Koontz.

So, Cameron, that leaves only non-fiction:) Just kidding.

And the other 3% of Dean Koontz must be his book, Intensity...

Groovy:

And The Husband. Oh, yes let us not forget thrillers of all types, fiction and literature, HF, history, non-fiction ....
Alas, the list was way too long and your comment was way too funny Groovy. (I could probably come up with some more.)

Lol

Wolfrott wrote: "I don't read books that shouldn't exist, like Twilight or 50 Shsdes! The former is bad writing, the latter is based fanfiction teaching adults what BDSM Is -not-. Except they all think it is legit,..."


I think you have the genre pegged, Wolfrott!

I also like what you called Twatlight: A book that "shouldn't exist." I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE IT!

Cameron: Then what are you doing on this site in the first place? Just curious, since it sounds like you DON'T read at all...which is what I call "functionally" illiterate like the airheads I had to force myself to NOT smack upside the head in public a few years ago when one asked me "Bram Stoker? Anne Rice? Folklore, what's that?" AFTER I had told them that "REAL VAMPIRE'S DON'T FUCKING SPARKLE! Folklore, Bram Stoke and Anne Rice all agree!" when they asked me, stupidly, if I was on "Team Edward" or "Team Jacob."

Ohhh, Amber! Your passion and gusto always make me smile warm! I truly love this site and all of its variety. <3

Eh, sorry if it seemed like I was picking on Cameron, Amy. I wasn't. I was asking a question.

Amber, didn't see that coming, potty mouth and all. Hope Cameron was frightened away...