Fantasy Buddy Reads discussion

The Mists of Avalon - Marion Zimmer Bradley

September 6, 2019.
Requested by Shaitarn and Zaara.

Thank you, Jenna! Apologies for the last minute-ness of the request!

200 pages in, and I have to be honest - I'm not loving it. And chapter 15 - hell, no! No one should be doing that kind of stuff!

Shaitarn wrote: "Thank you, Jenna! Apologies for the last minute-ness of the request!"

It's all good. :) enjoy!

Jenna wrote: "Requested by Shaitarn and Zaara."

Thanks Jenna. I love the Canterbury Tales too vm.
For Shaitarn and you….
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Love these images!!! Julia Jeffrey is a queen goddess.
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Thru Chapter 7…
MISTS OF AVALON LOG
Prologue and Ch 1
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1. I liked the plaintive tone of the prologue. I know this is stereotypical of me to say but forgive me some cheese in lieu of the rest of these posts? I could almost hear haunting Enya strains in the background.
2. Did you like what Morgana says about truth? Did you think about it (as in, did it actually make you stop) or didja just read on? Eastern theology holds there are seven levels of truth and a thing can be true in many different ways depending upon the way you are perceiving it. This prologue reminded me of that + then there is all that lore about "the ten thousand things"…

3. I love castlelore and I also liked that visual of a lone woman dwarfed by the gigantic wave-dashed castle on the Cornish rocks…hair flying in the wind, eyes far away. If this were painted, Shaitarn, by a hand I respected, Marc Simonetti perhaps, it would be my kind of fantasy art. You somehow feel this woman will have
a tempestuous destiny and carry those storms in her breast.

4. Here is my first question for you, Shaitarn. I won’t ask where you stand on the Pagan/Christian divide because it may be unpleasantly intrusive to your personal space. But I will ask what you thought of her exploration of the Celtic/Wiccan/Pagan ethos in this chapter? A fairly succinct summary though understandably (for plot reasons) hyperemotive, I thought. Very well told, very LARGE ideas articulated with flair and doesn’t at all feel like an infodump because she weaves in the personal (feelings) and the dramatis personae so vividly….
I were mentally *clapping and aplplauding* this chapter. It were superbly pulled off. So much in just this first chapter!
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CH 3-5
GORLOIS/UTHER
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What did you think about the conversation she has on the road with Gorlois? As of this chapter (remember I am far behind you) what did you think of Gorlois? I think he will never be able to truly reach her. Even after a long marriage and child together, look how they are almost strangers…this is the first real glimpse she has of her husband’s true mind.
This is a marriage on thin ice and it is waiting to skid all too rapidly into a dreary downspiral. From this small scene it’s like Igraine’s still giving herself little pep talks about her husband, like she needs to forcibly remind herself of his “many good qualities”. If he is a good man, shouldn’t she just know them in her bones instead of telling herself as a reassuring litany?
Wonder how it will be with Uther Pendragon? WHOOSH, I think. Gasoline and matches…old recognition…stone falling to earth…fated luuurve n all, no litanies there…but I hope MZB doesn’t write it toooooo ghastly in the horniness...if those two just jump into a haystack together and begin abrading hips as soon as they meet I will just lose all respect...
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CHAPTERS 2-6
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Igraine is starting to irritate me a little. First the lady doth protest too much + hold too much resentment and grudges and frankly, petulance, (for god’s sake girl, make peace and talk to the man already!!!) towards the destiny asked of her EVEN when it is explained that others are carrying far heavier burdens.
What sort of IDIOTIC woman will crib about sleeping with her own love and birthing his child just because everyone else saw it coming first?
I understand she has something to crib about the past…being sold into a political marriage with an old man + her struggle with integrating the faiths is clearly important to her and evokes some sympathy…but o god the whining…and the metaphorical stamping of the feet…urrrrgh! What is this fake morality when she is *snort* always dissing the Church for ITS fake morality?
***NOTE ADDED LATER: But then as soon as she see Uther she is instantly, immediately SUDDENLY lit up like flint struck to kindling? Uh. Ok. That went as predicted.
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CHAPTERS 3/6
UNNCESSARY PAMPERING SPOILER/ READ ONLY WHEN BORED

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What did YOU think of them “I know yooooooooh…I walked with you once upon a dream” interludes???



Hehehehe…ok after all the thematic scope bullsh!t I logged in the previous spoiler I felt you can use some Disney to cheer you up, my darlin’…I feel I laid the combined weight of the ages on you…and in any case I love to pamper ppl.

HERE IS #STORYTIME FOR YOU

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Poor Ygraine the waiting and the not knowing whether Uther will come almost kills her, no? That line about the destiny of women waiting for their men to come home, always waiting, across the ages…
There are two images I have.
1. There were a garden in Melbourne ok? Called Flagstaff because there literally was a flagpole there once, at the top of a smmall hill. The geography of the city has of course changed but in the olden days it was where the women went to watch the ships come in/wave handkerchiefs to send their men off when the ships left. They’d catch up on all the latest news because the bulletin’d be pinned up. But that place has such a happy folksy busy vibe, even in the present, even though its kinda also…like an inner city Pere Lachaise…you really feel alllll those stories in the place. The parting, the reunions, the cycle…I dunno how to describe it…that sense of waiting for a lover, even in the middle of busyness all around you.
2. I was telling @idiffer a random long story of one of my Christmases…it was a silly story about how I was drinking really watereddown hooch with a bunch of strangers…in the middle of a salt pan that was once an inland sea. But that was only part of it all.
Because when the sea receded it left behind this ghost town, Shaitarn, all that was left were these huge, huge walls. And ancient stairwells and cisterns and some caved in houses…trees growing thru everything. Of course we climbed those walls and walked the entire ring of the old city. Of course we sat there staring out at the cold blue wastes. It is not just Raraku I met in that trip but also the Wall north of Winterfell.
And there was this arrowslit window ok, in the battlements and I stared out and (Calvin has always a rampant imagination) imagine what it will be like for a woman watching from there, waiting for her lover to come home and instead the sea comes instead, swallowing everything before receding and vanishing forever. She knows the ships are gone and he will never come. She knows she will die too and soon. She may not yet know that the city will die too once the water source goes. But there is a great hope in this story. It is that some things never change. Even if this world is no longer one I recognise much…the important things never change. They can never be killed even if the sea takes everything. Stories will remain and some walls will stand.
I guess this was what Erikson were trying to say with his obsession for buried cities and his saving of the two mascot dogs.
Ok end of #storytime
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I hope you liked the mindtrip, Shai. In my silly ways, I tried to build you my own versions of the taaaaardis….
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CHAPTER 7
Did not like this chapter.

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It seems totally and completely different than the beautiful first 6 chapters…which were anyway getting too much. I had this same complaint with TJ Klune (dude who wrote the sole, single PNR I have ever read). He could wring the feels from you and how! It was like bursts of light and colour exploding on the skin of your hand. But then he just keeps going and going and going at the same pitch and intensity that you get so highly strung with all the feels…you just want to kick him away…make it stop for a bit.
And o dear…now Ygraine is just falling apart at the seams…soooo she resists the ultimate manness of UUUUther (insert cartoony pelvis thrust with MJ voiceover…sh!t I wish I dared post a GIF but enough of my crass humour) despite her urges and also resists Merlin/Avalon’s dreams and sendings about him and went with *snort* Gorlois.
Then suddenly she cannot bear that Uther will die (haha #DEATH BY HUSBAND) and is dabbling in magic not once but twice? And with absurd immediate results that highly strain my credulity. Also this scene is written in such a highly *drama queen strikes a pose* style…I mean effin’ astral teleporting (ok so it’s scrying all over the place)…if a complete novice to the mysteries were able to manage one scrying/sending in a night…it is difficult enough for the reader to believe….but zipping around the place, TWICE…at will? Banishing a dark goddess with the force of her good clean horniness for Ooooooother’s sweaty thighs awooooooo ah I mean…her great troooo luuuuurve from across the lifetimes??
*MEGASNORT* and :O
Even staying purely within the paradigm of Celtic paganism…it is a wonder she were only sick and not dead. I’ll chalk it up to her being a High Priestess of (Atlantis????? I dunno the past life visions left it so vague and referenced many places)/Consort of the Pendragon in the previous incarnation and still holding some seed of her gifts.
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O shit! Saw your comment...jsut now...urrrkh. Shit. Oooop. I just logged a bunch. Spent all day typing painstakingly and now I don’t want to delete it. So I will leave it there, luckily it is all spoilered. And why are you not liking it?

Is it because…the characters (Igraine) or the writing because I too have things to complain about but as you can see, I got very involved with this book….!!!!
I hope you find osmething in all that wall of text to think about + DON’T KILL ME>>>>>>I promise I won’t share my entire reading log from now on. Sorry if you felt bombed. I’ve been writing to you all morning dammit, and ignoring my actual work. But you’re not new to my book essays, no? I remember I posted like this on Deerskin too.

In any case my sked is going to become highly erratic for the next ten days, so I deliberately WANTED and TRIED to leave enough posts for you on the thread to think about/discuss in terms of the broad thematic points I found so far.
And Shae has promised she will come and chat, share some of that cider with you. HAHA I never leave anyone without plennnnnnty of snacks n ALL things for the road and I will have some needs for this too. It is a long trip I am making, Shaitarn. Won’t be an easy one either.
Frodo would need some lembas bread and mithril for this one, I think.
Ok bye I go now.

Zaara, it's all cool, really. I think all my recent buddy reads have been pretty quiet, so it's nice to have someone who's really reading the book and forcing me to do the same! *sharpens knives reading skills*

I shall return and make some (hopefully) eloquent and intelligent points later until you damn my loquacity! (I didn't get much reading done yesterday as I had a humdinger of a headache for most of the afternoon and when I'm ill I can't do much except lie around like a Victorian lady having an attack of the vapours.)

Coincidentally, I started this book on my own about two weeks ago.
With that I will not make any comments until everyone is further in.

I'm struggling to work out what it is I don't like about this book and I think it's the, for want of a better term, the soap opera-ness of it all. I've read various novels about Arthur, from pseudo-historical to full out knights-in-plate-armour nonsense, and I have certain expectations of battle and love and tragedy; I think I'm kind of frustrated that we seem to be skipping on the first leg of that triad here. And yes, I get that that's because we have no male PoV character, but still it's annoying to me.

Also, the setting seems slightly 'off' as though MZB couldn't decide whether she wanted to be as close to pseudo-history as possible or a bit 'myths and legends-y'. I mean, that bit in book 2 (view spoiler)[ with the fairy kingdom - What the hell ?! (hide spoiler)]

Frank wrote: "Coincidentally, I started this book on my own about two weeks ago.
With that I will not make any comments until everyone is further in."

*slight blush*
No no @Frank please post A LOT so I feel a bit less like a piece of cheese/like I'm the only one talking.

See...the background is that SHsaitarn and I had made plans long ago to read this book + a bunch of other pulpy Roman smut and when those plans were revived recently on the Invites thread, I wasn't able to immediately find the other books.

So to compensate her (in the "mood setting") I tried to make this thread kinda smutty...since it were just us girls 😅...it weren't hard...you too read those early chapters where it's all luuuurvelooorn in the sexual tension and in any case pagan fantasy is always very earthy...

But please do post, honestly...don't hold back it will be great to have a guy's POV on all this + Shaitarn reads faster, is ahead of me and is prolly close to where you've reached in the book. And I will open your spoilers when I get there + we love opening spoilers.

@Shai...haven't opened any of your spoilers yet...just about to get to Chapter 15 though...so I get to unclose one soon.

Zaara wrote: "Frank wrote: "Coincidentally, I started this book on my own about two weeks ago.
With that I will not make any comments until everyone is further in."

*slight blush*
No no @Frank please post A LOT..."

Well to start off, in Book 1, (view spoiler)[ I felt (guys point of view) there was much too much yearning and angst with Igraine and Gorlois and Ingrainer and Uther, although much of the story falls close to Geoffrey of Monmouth, and Sir Thomas Mallory. It is dragged out as I said, but then this is the story not of Arthur but those women that were part of his life. I do enjoy the further detail on Avalon and The Lady of the Lake. I also enjoyed the introduction of Viviane the concerned aunt, taking Arthur and Morgraine to Avalon for protection and fostering. (hide spoiler)]

Book 1, part 1: (probably up to about chapter 7, I guess)

The pagan/Christian divide: I personally have no religious beliefs and I think every religion should be up for scrutiny, questioning, and criticism. If your religion can’t take even the slightest amount of criticism, then I question what sort of religion it is.

While good depictions of pagan/Wiccan religions make me go weak at the knees (have you read Dark Cathedral, Zaara? That is an awesome book – I wanted to run off and be a pagan living in a house with colourful gypsy trappings after reading that in my teens!), this one is kind of turning me off a little bit.

My problem is that later on (view spoiler)[ the book goes on and on and on about the religions and it really bashes Christianity as bad and sterile and stupid and the ‘old religion’ as good and right. Don’t get me wrong, I personally think early Christianity did an awful lot of bad things, particularly to women (all that ‘original sin’ nonsense – gah), but the constant ‘Christianity bad, pagan good’ mantra of this book is really turning me off. (That’s even without me going on about the fact that we don’t even know if this triple goddess/horned god dynamic actually existed back then (the neo-Pagan/wiccan religion dates back to 1921), but as the story of Arthur is fantasy to a large extent I’ll reluctantly let it go) (hide spoiler)]

Gorlois: (view spoiler)[ I think the age difference is a big issue here; Gorlois treats Igraine like a child; he lets her keep Morgaine like a man allowing his daughter to have a stray kitten or puppy they’ve found. It’s the same when she goes shopping: she’s being indulged. This behaviour isn’t that unique – fiction is full of insecure older husbands who spoil/indulge their much younger wives, but it isn’t something I like. I also wonder if that’s why they have their problems: Gorlois isn’t used to treating her like an adult and Igraine probably isn’t used to behaving like one. (hide spoiler)]

Uther (view spoiler)[ Not quite lust at first sight, or at least not quite as badly as I’ve read it elsewhere, although that meeting when the king was dead and Igraine wipes away his tears was pretty bad. Couldn’t help wondering if Igraine sort of decides she wants Uther because it’s been predicted she’ll have his child. And I’m sceptical, wondering if the Merlin/Viviane are arranging their own plans rather than having an ‘honest’ prediction of that makes sense. To be honest, I think I’d prefer it if their coming together was based purely on lust and they were both honest enough to admit that rather than this ‘destiny’ stuff. (hide spoiler)]

The dream(view spoiler)[ Oh god, I hate these kind of dream sequences, particularly the ‘I have loved you through lifetimes’ stuff. Urrgggghhhh. And Atlantis – why do authors feel the need to drag Atlantis into a story about Arthur? Whhhyyyy? *cries* (BTW, MZB wrote an Atlantis duology years ago, way before this (I think). I read the two in one years edition ago, when I was probably a bit too young and couldn’t make head or tail of it) (hide spoiler)]

Well Zaara, we did say we wanted cheese, did we not? Cheese we have! Please post your log – I love reading your thoughts!

Hey there guys, I just wanted to say I wish I could join in the discussion here with you guys, to hear all the good and bad, because regardless I think there'd be a lot to talk about.

I read some Marion Zimmer Bradley when I was younger, and apparently tried to read this when I was 15 or so and never finished it, so I'm curious what my impression of it would be now. I've heard it's feminist, I've heard it's repulsive, and my own memory of it has faded completely so I'm curious what fresh eyes would see it as.

Sorry for the lack of updates after my last giant batch post... have little/no net connectivity + in an hour or so I'll lose even this for the next four days...so i just wanted to login and say I'm here and I'm reading and have commennnts 👀

Shaitarn wrote: "Well Zaara, we did say we wanted cheese, did we not? Cheese we have! Please post your log...."

Yeaaas my darling....and we shall duly enjoy the all claaaaptraaapp in ghoulish ways...and glory in our 😈💪 very verrrry bad taste...😂😝 gtg make a quick couple calls b4 i enter the nowheres...UNESCO

Well its been seven mimutes and teh page is still loading and I cant see my comment which i tried resubmitting...o well...Shaitarn, I tried.

Hey guys, I've enjoyed following your thoughts on this one :-)

I read TMOA (and a few others by M Z Bradley) when I was 14, on the recommendation of a high school librarian.

I remember being somewhat swept away by the dark, moody atmosphere of the book (probably a teenage thing :-) - but also remember feeling a tad irritated by some of the repeated refrains and the whining that Shaitarn mentions in her review, lol :-)

I also remember feeling quite disturbed by the fate of the poor 'little blue girl' at the Festival of Beltane - a brief but casual description of child abuse! Something I, as a pretty sheltered 14 year old, had never really been exposed to before.

Given some of the media reports released about the author after her death, it sounds like all was not well in the M Z Bradley household. To my mind these articles possibly give a sad and disturbing context to things that crop up in Bradley's writing, such as that Beltane scene :-(

Funny how the passage of time alters your view about the books you once read.

One positive thing that I read somewhere; apparently all the profits from Bradley's books now go to a charity that supports survivors of abuse.

Good to see the publishers now trying to do the right thing, I guess.

Shae wrote: "Hey guys, I've enjoyed following your thoughts on this one :-)

I read TMOA (and a few others by M Z Bradley) when I was 14, on the recommendation of a high school librarian.

I remember being some..."

Yeah, that scene, as briefly mentioned as it was, was pretty disturbing. Some other scenes, reading them with what I now know about the author, made me feel a bit grossed out. One thing that floored me was right near the end, Morgaine (view spoiler)[ decides that everything she's done is only disapproved of by the Christian church, but is otherwise okay, including her having sex with her half-brother. I was mentally screaming 'No, it isn't! Incest is not okay anywhere!!' at that point. (hide spoiler)]

@Shaitarn - agree 100%. Re Morgaine's rationalisation near the end - my 14 year old thought response was 'Um okaaay??? But really, just no, not ever!!!'

😂😂😂 *SELFKICK* it's funny just hooooww much I spazzed over Gorlois only for him to (view spoiler)[ die wihtout a whimper offpage (hide spoiler)] but in my defence... I can be superdumb the way he was written in Part One I thought he will (view spoiler)[ deffo side with Lot and be one of the main antagonists against the Arthurian ascensiom (hide spoiler)]...

But this is also one of my main quibbles with this kind of multigenerational saga, Shaitarm. Esp the ones from that era...that when its time for the latter generation cast to be given prominence on the page, the previous chars are just ditched without any shadow of a pretense/made to fade rapidly into the wallpaper...OR else do things that are totally out of char from how they have been portrayed so far...like aghastly.... vastly agaaaaape from how they have been written so far.

For example, in Sevenwaters BK 1 & 2: (view spoiler)[ Sorcha and Red...strong and wise and believable MCs whom I loved in Book 1 because they made tough choices with big compassion, always considered the longterm and the human costs...heck, one of the MCs went thru a "test"/"quest" seven years and the other one waited/supported with such sincerity...they were the strongest, most admirable pair I saw...but in Book 2 suddenly they just...morphed...and made these terrible weak despicable emotional choices, esp in their parenting...just so a new set of faces could take over...for me, it was like reading about two other people with the same names...I felt kinda hurt and deffo cheated...like Red and Sorcha had been killed and something wearing their faces were going thru the motions... (hide spoiler)]

Same thing happemed here with Igraine (view spoiler)[ going the holy "fascist" route and retreating behind the abbey walls... (hide spoiler)]

Getting tired...the religious debate was fresh and fascinating in Chapter 1 but by now its been done to death and then *yerk* there's the whole (view spoiler)[ Arthur loves Morgaine loves Lancelot loves Guinevere thing...with everyone sleeping/married/loving in a tangle...which we all knew would happen, going in to the book...but still... (hide spoiler)]

I'm just reaching the part where Morgaine (view spoiler)[ is to be strategically married into Wales. Hope she finds some happiness here??? but then I think of the origin of the term Morganatic marriage...😂😂😂 (hide spoiler)] O dear! I think I am going to take a small break on this for couple of days and catch up with some other books.

The char I liked the most so far is Vivaine...she's cold from necessity but each decision really costs her, not like the other (younger) chars who just seem untouched by consequences / (if you actually see the plot) just resting passively within their own (self generated) sexual turbulences. They deffo don't drive the plot...ohk maybe a very little...Morgaine...

Also I liked the ease and familiarity of Vivaine'slong friendship with Taliesin...the way they share understandings without words even...this is a gift when it happens between a woman and a man...leave alone the Merlin of Britain and High Priestess of Avalon...and I like here that it were portrayed as deliberately asexual and yet powerfully magical. I wish they'd had more "screen"time...don't like Kevan the Bard as much...seems watered down. In Sevenwaters (usung the series as a basis for comparison in terms of Druidcraft) Connor and Finbar had very different modalities/approaches to magic/healing/druidery.

In total, Parts 2 and 3 so far haven't been as good as the glorious claptrappy soap opera that was Part 1...maybe it's the combined loss of innocence across the board with the chars...maybe its you guys not liking it so much and I got influenced...or maybe its just this gods demmed repetition and the tangled romantic interactions.
Let's see where Part 4 goes,,,

Did you two like this portrayal of Arthur?

Heyyyy...hi Shae and Melissa...both of you came!
:))) thanks, how nice of you...both of you...😘

Ha I know Shae...whenever I read one of the Mother-daughter parental angst scenes all I can think of is the hypocrisy...sometimes I wonder how her kids would have felt when they first read the book. Sincerity just has a different ring to it, no? Also I wonder what Mayim will say about this book.

And once I read your comments...I know I read this too...when I was fifteen/sixteen...this and Mary Stewart's Arthur books + everyone knows parts of the legend. But I think I actively blocked these reads from memory 😂...I didn't even remember I'd read them until you spoke/I reached that scene wherso now everything feels vaguely familiar but I remember zilch about what will happen plotwise.

@Melissa...the book's sensibilities are dated, it's very "of it's time" even tho the chars are supposed to be ageless and timeless + there is quite a bit of bloat in the middle of the book...still worth reading once IMO. There are many good bits and things to think about. As you can see, I am finding lots to talk about....

Don't know if it's just me, but Arthur seemed a bit of a blank and frustratingly weak in this book; his constant giving in to Guinevere (I know it was another spelling, but I'm not going to look up which one it was; hope that is okay) on religious matters made me want to smack my head against the wall. Not that I wanted him to get all aggressive with her, but his constant giving way on everything was annoying.

One thing I will say is I'm fed up of the way Guinevere is constantly portrayed in Arthurian literature. Whether it's the sort of religious hysteria as in this novel or simply it being all her fault that the round table split, she's constantly shown as either weak or vain or spiteful in some way while Lancelot is consistently 'the second greatest knight in Christendom'. It takes two to tango, so why doesn't he take any responsibility for not being able to keep it in his pants?! Ugh; I've never been a fan of that guy. (Incidentally, the way he's called 'Lancelet' in this novel constantly had me thinking 'Lancet' and of popping blisters. My brain goes to weird places sometimes.)

I actually read MZB's The Firebrand in my teens which was a similar basic idea - all about the Trojan War from Cassandra's (or Kassandra; sigh) PoV and absolutely freaking loved it. I'm planning on re-reading it at some point to see if it actually is any good or if teenage me was a complete idiot. Let me know if you fancy some ancient Greek cheese sometime; I'll be sure to keep a notebook by my side while reading so I can match your plot dissection *evil cackle*

Oooh, I just checked Mayim's rating, would absolutely love to read her thoughts on this one too :-)

Agree about the typical portrayal of Guinevere - it would be so great to see her drawn up with a bit more dimension!

Re Lancelot...despite the golden aura he is a lightweight, Shaitarn.
And I despise lightweights.

Liked your analysis of Arthur and Guinevere...I'm still making up my mind on them...will get back on that...I didn't read any more of this book yest bcuz I got going on Priory of the Orange Tree and Nevernight...so I don't have any fresh notes for the thread.

And of course I'd love to read any kind of cheese with you! Be goin' to the bookstore soon...lemme see what I can find...😋😊

😂😂😂 I'm so with you the name spellings!! The worst one I've come across in a pulp book so far is Gwladys with a W. But Gwynhwyfar (I opened the book to chk) ain't far behind...and riffing on your Lancet-Lancelet thing (which I didn't mind so much btw)...I keep hearing/seeing that spelling as Gwen"heifer" in a streetspeak accent, esp whenever she's being particularly squealy and irritating...

I haven't read any other Arthurian novels to compare...like I was telling Shae, I did read The Crystal Cave etc...but can't remember anything about them... :/

I've just been looking at reviews for The Coming of the King, another Arthurian book I have hanging around somewhere. One reviewer commented it has the phrase 'trouserful of wantoness' in it. This had pushed up my list of books to find and read.

Just thought I'd share that with you!

Shaitarn wrote: "One reviewer commented it has the phrase 'trouserful of wantoness..."

Yea that certainly swung it...😂😂😂 dunno if I will want to read another Arthurian immediately after this tho, Shaitarn...I still have almost four hundred pages left of Mists and nearly ground to a halt on it...

But I will keep my eyes peeled for the Greek smut, Roman smut and deffo The Coming of The King....😋😜

EDIT Just to add more 😂😂😂