Laurie R. King Virtual Book Club discussion

One of the things I’ve always enjoyed in reading historical fiction/mysteries is that in the best of the genre, you learn something even as you enjoy a good story. In the hands of an author who has done his/her research and (even more important) has the discretion to know how much of it to use and the talent to breathe life into “facts,” the reader is transported to another time, place or culture, experiencing things long vanished from real life. Good historical fiction can awaken an interest in a place or a period that will persist for life, and lead the curious reader to other books, fiction and nonfiction alike.
Abir Mukherjee’s “A Rising Man,” the first in a series that now spans three books, is such a novel. Along with Sam Wyndham, a disillusioned WWI veteran who nevertheless retains a mordant sense of humor, the reader will experience the heat, chaos, beauty, hypocrisy and political danger of 1920 Calcutta, meet players from self-satisfied British matrons to frustrated revolutionaries, and come to have a better understanding of what Empire meant for Indians and British settlers alike. Along the way, you’ll follow Sam as he solves a brutal murder – more than one, in fact.
Here’s how the publisher’s summary puts it:

“In the days of the Raj, a newly arrived Scotland Yard detective is confronted with the murder of a British official—in his mouth a note warning the British to leave India, or else...
Calcutta, 1919. Captain Sam Wyndham, former Scotland Yard detective, is a new arrival to Calcutta. Desperately seeking a fresh start after his experiences during the Great War, Wyndham has been recruited to head up a new post in the police force. He is immediately overwhelmed by the heady vibrancy of the tropical city, but with barely a moment to acclimatize or to deal with the ghosts that still haunt him, Wyndham is caught up in a murder investigation that threatens to destabilize a city already teetering on the brink of political insurgency.

The body of a senior official has been found in a filthy sewer, and a note left in his mouth warns the British to quit India, or else. Under tremendous pressure to solve the case before it erupts into increased violence on the streets, Wyndham and his two new colleagues—arrogant Inspector Digby and Sergeant Banerjee, one of the few Indians to be recruited into the new CID—embark on an investigation that will take them from the opulent mansions of wealthy British traders to the seedy opium dens of the city.

What's the last book you read that really transported you to a place, time or culture?
What are the elements in a book that help that happen for you?
I'll be interested to see if "A Rising Man" takes you to Calcutta in 1920, as it did me.

Good intro, Merrily!! Can't wait to read this one :-)

I've actually started reading a lot of history and non-fiction the past year or so....a part of my own education that was quite lacking, and have found it fascinating! The books that really stuck with me most have been graphic novels. I started getting into them because the genre is really expanding beyond "just comic books," and when in a bookstore and you have no idea what to search for, they're a little easier to "judge by their cover," as flipping though the artwork can really give you a great sense of what you're purchasing.

Historical graphic novels are able to really show the human side of history with an emotional punch when the words and pictures are combined. The two that stuck with me this year are Maus (a classic, and the original of this genre, about survivors of the holocaust, depicted as mice) and Persepolis (a memoir about a girl growing up in Iran during the revolution and Gulf War). They're probably the best things I've read all year, and would highly recommend both.

Tara wrote: "Good intro, Merrily!! Can't wait to read this one :-)

I've actually started reading a lot of history and non-fiction the past year or so....a part of my own education that was quite lacking, and ..."

I've read about both "Maus" and "Persepolis," Tara, and although I'm not generally into graphic novels, your comments encourage me to read them. They both got wonderful reviews. I hope you'll like "A Rising Man," I really thought his ability to create pictures (and temperature) with words was amazing.

The most recent, because I just started re-reading (or re-listening to be honest) is The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society. But recently I've listened to a few books about the women spies in WWII that also transported me - and not in a good way. I'm thinking I may want to re-read Peter Pan & go back to Neverland.

Dena wrote: "The most recent, because I just started re-reading (or re-listening to be honest) is The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society. But recently I've listened to a few books about the women spi..."

Yes, it's true, sometimes one can be transported to a place you don't like much! In this book (as a person who doesn't suffer heat well) I REALLY felt the heat of Calcutta. In fact it reminded me of the moment in "The Game" when Holmes tells Russell that a European new to India usually ends up red-faced and shouting at someone at some point. I think the heat in India would kill me!

Merrily wrote: "Dena wrote: "The most recent, because I just started re-reading (or re-listening to be honest) is The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society. But recently I've listened to a few books about ..."

I'm starting the book today, not sure I want to be transported to Calcutta. I'll give it a try.

Antoinette wrote: "Merrily wrote: "Dena wrote: "The most recent, because I just started re-reading (or re-listening to be honest) is The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society. But recently I've listened to a ..."

Good timing Antoinette, I was going to post something today asking if people were out there reading, as it's been pretty quiet. It is a good story, I hope you enjoy it - and it shows various aspects of Calcutta from good to bad. I especially like the hero's "voice," as although he's a Brit, he's got a bit of a jaundiced eye about some of the excesses of Empire.

Just starting... I'm enjoying the author's apparent understanding of the British and Indian societies of the time. "Like most radicals, they talked a lot but did nothing." (pg. 24) and "The Rowllat Acts. They'd been passed the previous month and allowed us to lock up anyone we suspected of terrorism or revolutionary activities. We could hold them for up to two years without a trial." ugggggghhhh.

Tara wrote: "Just starting... I'm enjoying the author's apparent understanding of the British and Indian societies of the time. "Like most radicals, they talked a lot but did nothing." (pg. 24) and "The Rowllat..."

I know - one of the things that struck me in the book was how the British just couldn't understand why the Indians might resent their "stewardship" of the country. From their point of view, they were vastly improving things for the poor benighted natives and so the natives should be grateful, not agitating for independence. Not the first or last time a Colonial power would have that attitude.

I enjoyed it and have started the second book in the series. I agree, I like the author's balance of the attitudes towards colonialism. It's believably critical. It can be unpleasant when the colonialist attitudes seep into Golden Age mysteries, even if it's totally peripheral to the plot. OTOH, sometimes people nowadays can be so judgmental looking back on other times and places (ALL people involved were COMPLETELY EVIL, unlike our current times, where we have reached moral perfection on our understanding of all issues.)

Emily-I agree with your last statement `100%. I'm only 60 pages in, but was wondering how much people felt the main character's POV of colonialism felt believable, or if it felt TOO modern and 'woke' in order to let the reader feel superior....i.e. "This characters feels exactly as I would if I had lived in that time/place." Hindsight is often 20/20. I felt Paragon Hotel was a little guilty of this. The main character was so forward thinking that it felt like the decisions she made were rational to us, but I think I'd be more interested to see what an abolitionist or anti-racist or anti-colonialist REALLY thought and felt.

The problem with stories where there are a few characters with strong, modern morals and a few characters representing the bad guys/racists/misogynists/etc, is that it makes it seem like there are a huge bad apples ruining it for everyone. The reality is that many of these issues are systemic. Example: think of Disney's Princess and the Frog...when there are only one or two racists, they're easy to defeat, and the viewer is allowed to think "Yes, I'm a good person, just like the good people in the story!!" When we don't all acknowledge the little bits that even the best of people contribute to the wrongs of society, we're not really addressing the issues. And in this book....everyone who's British is therefore complacent at some small level with colonialism, including our main character (and Holmes....and Russell...and especially Mycroft). It's a sticky reality.

Tara wrote: "Emily-I agree with your last statement `100%. I'm only 60 pages in, but was wondering how much people felt the main character's POV of colonialism felt believable, or if it felt TOO modern and 'wok..."

Tara and Emily, all good points. I think Sam's attitudes in the book are believable in part because he's had a Bad War and has seen the hypocrisy behind many things, including the high-minded and jingoistic patriotism that got the War started in the first place. He's also become cynical about religion because, as he puts it somewhere in the book, he's not really interested in meeting a God Who didn't bother to save his blameless wife (and millions of others) from the flu. So for me it's quite believable that he would see the hypocrisy behind the facade of the British arriving to "save" India (and bringing the opium trade with them).
I always have difficulty with wholesale condemnation of people who lived in a different period for not being appropriately "woke." I'm sure that one day, a century from now perhaps, people will be condemning our time for its blindness to certain evils (global warming, anyone?), and all we could say in our defense is that some knew and tried, many were blind, others knew but didn't have the will to act, and some didn't care. Or to put it another way, we were being typical humans.

And to make things more complicated, good motives and good actions don't always come packaged together, or in the package we expect. Churchill was both strongly anti-Nazi and strongly anti-Indian independence because he believed in the British Empire. He also believed Indian independence would lead to Muslim-Hindu infighting and unrest if not war, and he wasn't wrong about that.

In the same way, one of the most believable ways for someone to end up in a non-interventionist stance is to make them cynical and nihilist, while people who are genuinely trying to make things better can end up demonstrating attitudes we find later extremely unpleasant. It's all very complicated.

Emily wrote: "And to make things more complicated, good motives and good actions don't always come packaged together, or in the package we expect. Churchill was both strongly anti-Nazi and strongly anti-Indian i..."

Very true, Emily. The trouble is, most people are complicated and very few are wholly good or wholly bad. Plus, when people are born and brought up inside a certain cultural reality, it makes it extremely difficult to see it from the outside. This doesn't excuse people going along with outright evil, but one understands how it can happen.

Well said, Emily and Merrily! especially: "I always have difficulty with wholesale condemnation of people who lived in a different period for not being appropriately "woke.""

RE: "It's all very complicated." I agree. It can be really hard to take a stance on anything because there are always many sides of a story, with everything from what newspaper you read to what food you eat to how you spend your money and who you vote for. They all have consequences and there is so much corruption and nuance and unknown information out there that it makes it really hard to NOT do things with questionable moral consequences. For example, according the Adam Ruins Everything, our beloved avacados are mostly controlled by the Mexican mafia. So what do we do? Not eat avacados? But then we don't support the innocent farmers. And also, they're delicious. And nutritious. So I agree, condemning a society for not realizing something is amoral to a futuristic mind's eye is poor form.

Tara wrote: "Well said, Emily and Merrily! especially: "I always have difficulty with wholesale condemnation of people who lived in a different period for not being appropriately "woke.""

RE: "It's all very co..."

Lord spare me from a world with avocados! If there were to be a new "tea party," there are a number of other things I'd throw into the harbor before those...

The reality is that many of these issues are systemic. Example: think of Disney's Princess and the Frog...when there are only one or two racists, they're easy to defeat, and the viewer is allowed to think "Yes, I'm a good person, just like the good people in the story!!" When we don't all acknowledge the little bits that even the best of people contribute to the wrongs of society, we're not really addressing the issues."

YES! I'm currently reading White Fragility by Robin DiAngelo which discusses the systemic white supremacism both of our country and in European colonization. Since we are still enmeshed in that in the US it is hard to pull back enough from it to see just how we are all a part of it. I felt that the author did well with his partially enlightened main character - he does see some of the ills of colonialism but is still a part of the British system.

I was curious about the author - he is obviously of Indian heritage but was he raised in the UK or in India? I would think that either would change his perspective to a certain extent.

KarenB wrote: "The reality is that many of these issues are systemic. Example: think of Disney's Princess and the Frog...when there are only one or two racists, they're easy to defeat, and the viewer is allowed t..."

Karen, I don't recall although I've heard him talk at B'Con. He now lives in the U.K. but I had the impression he was raised in India. Must seek more information!

Merrily wrote: "KarenB wrote: "The reality is that many of these issues are systemic. Example: think of Disney's Princess and the Frog...when there are only one or two racists, they're easy to defeat, and the view..."

Nope, I was wrong - he grew up in Scotland! I think you're right, I bet that does give him a special perspective on the Colonial issue...

Thanks, Merrily! I would think your perspective might change some, although maybe not your overall opinion on colonialism.

Thanks, KarenB, I'm going to look that book up! Sounds really interesting.

Thanks, KarenB, I'm going to look that book up! Sounds really interesting.
I'm currently leading an interfaith book discussion using Ijeoma Oluo's book, So You Want to Talk About Race (also highly recommended) and have amassed a list of good resources on racism in this country if you'd be interested.

Hi All, things have gotten quiet here - I hope some of you are still reading! It's now the time when Spoilers are permitted, so I'll say that the only quibble I had with this excellent book is that I was suspicious of the Bad Guy fairly early on - but this is Mukherjee's first book so he's forgiven. How about you? And which characters in the book really stood out for you? I do like the protagonist a lot and became very fond of Surrender-Not.

Merrily wrote: "Hi All, things have gotten quiet here - I hope some of you are still reading! It's now the time when Spoilers are permitted, so I'll say that the only quibble I had with this excellent book is that..."

I finished the book yesterday. I found it tough going, but that's to be expected and adds to the atmosphere. I also has suspicions from the start, too easy to blame the natives. I never found the protagonist likable, Surrender-Not either. They were both, like so many caught up in the occupation of India, cogs in the system. I don't think I could read another in the series. That happens sometimes when I'm reading historic fiction and I think, this is going to end badly. Not the book, but the bigger story.

Antoinette wrote: "Merrily wrote: "Hi All, things have gotten quiet here - I hope some of you are still reading! It's now the time when Spoilers are permitted, so I'll say that the only quibble I had with this excell..."

Antoinette, I can see that response to the book. At least the Indians did achieve independence eventually, even though it took longer than it should have. And I think people like Sam and Surrender-not do what they can to subvert the injustices of the system, even though at the time it's a lot like punching a marshmallow, I suppose...

Midnight's Children by Salmon Rushdie addresses the problems of independence for India/Pakistan.

Thanks, Virginia, we are always glad to get tips on more to read.

I just finished this book now...also found it tough going. I LOVED the social and political commentary....but didn't really care enough about the characters. I felt like Surrender-not wasn't fleshed out too much, and mostly there to show that Sam's a "good guy" and trying to play equal with the natives. I could see that changing as the series goes on, though. As for Sam, his character was interesting, but I didn't really understand what his motivation was. He doesn't often seem to be sure himself. I think if his motivations where clearer, and thematically were more tied with the murder itself, this book may have been more enticing.

Tara wrote: "I just finished this book now...also found it tough going. I LOVED the social and political commentary....but didn't really care enough about the characters. I felt like Surrender-not wasn't fleshe..."

Thanks for reviving our discussion - I'm about ready to leave for Bouchercon and sort of let things drop.
I liked the book enough so that I went on to read his second and third - as is often the case, I think they get better as they go along and both Sam and Surrender-not are more fleshed out. I think the setting was one of the things that drew me in with the first one, perhaps more than the characters (which is unusual for me).
It will be interesting to compare this book with the one coming up, "The Widows of Malabar Hill," as the period is the same, but the narrator is an Indian woman. Quite a different perspective!

I am looking forward to "The Widows of Malabar Hill." It's been sitting on my Kindle for a long time, as was the current book which I did enjoy enough to buy the 2nd book.

Virginia wrote: "I am looking forward to "The Widows of Malabar Hill." It's been sitting on my Kindle for a long time, as was the current book which I did enjoy enough to buy the 2nd book."

Virginia, "Widows" was recommended to me many times but it took me awhile to get to it - when I finally did read it, I really enjoyed it and have read the sequels, too.

Have so much fun at Bouchercon, Merrily!!!

I agree, Merrily-I care more about character's than place, but the place definitely shown in this book.

Tara wrote: "Have so much fun at Bouchercon, Merrily!!!"

That's the plan, Tara!