Goodreads Ireland discussion

This is the spoiler thread for our November read!

I look forward to hearing yours as well Emma.

I've been struggling a bit with how to comment on this book. I think it's so overwhelming and good that it's hard to come up with specifics.


I was struck by the same thing as Emma. I was also amazed at how beautiful Atwood's language is. The beauty of the language is in stark contrast to the ugliness of the situation. Since I listened to the audiobook (narrated by Claire Danes) this really came through for me more this time than upon previous readings. Atwood is also very economical with language and good at pacing. There was a bit in the middle that dragged a bit for me, but overall I thought it was very tightly constructed.

Was there a particular part of the book that horrified folks more than the others? For me it was when they're forced by the Aunts in the Red Center to testify/confess parts of their past lives. Jeanine describes being rapped at 14, and she's taunted and made to believe it's her fault.

What did folks think of the post script at the end?

I am particularly interested in seeing how the males in our group feel about this book. One of the parts that I found horrifying was when the Commander took her out to the social club and she saw the woman that she had hoped made it out, wearing an old Playboy bunny outfit.

I have finished this book. It was not the easiest read in so far as I had to almost cover my eyes for some bits...which lets face it, always makes reading difficult.

I found the atmosphere throughout the book incredibly tense. I almost felt Offred's overwhelming helpless quiet panic in relation to her daughter. I found the scene where the wife shows her the picture of her daughter unbearable.

The book was made into a film in 1990. I watched it on you tube. Robert Duvall plays the commander really well.

I suppose this type of a reality is possible to imagine beacause it has happened and is happening to various degress. Fundamentalist religious states that oppress woman and murder or torture diisenters. Ethnic cleansing. We don't have to look too far back in Irish history to get a whiff of all these basic principles of religious oppression.

so, yes. Not the easiest read ever. But lots of food for thought. I'm glad to have read it.

I'm really liking this book as well. As you said IanieB the dispassionate voice of the narrator is so fitting for this book. It really emphasises her feeling of hopelessness. I'm about 120 pages from the end and hoping to finish it this weekend.

As I said in my review, I read this book twenty five years ago, and have never forgotten it. This one tends to stick with you.

I've found that with a few books I've read with this group...Stoner, Burial Rites and probably this one as well.

I probably would have got close to finishing it last night but I started watching old Doctor Who episodes with my son...

This must be the quietest discussion thread for a BOTM in a long while!

The book was every bit as thrilling as the first time I read it about 25 years ago. It wasn't too fantastical, which made it more believable and for me it almost became a cautionary tale of what could happen. Next I'll follow Emma's links to help give this more perspective.

Theresa, what does BOTM mean. I'm sorry I'm not familiar with all the acronyms flying around these days.

Hopefully I'll have more to say when I've finished it. Maybe the reason there is not much discussion is because most people agree with what is being said. I've found there is more discussion when something is said that some people don't agree with.

My only issue with this book is from what I see, the women never seem to have tried to fight this happening. They just seem to accept their lot except for a few 'poorly attended demonstrations'. I would hope if it ever happened women of modern society would go down fighting.

Not long after apartheid ended in South Africa I had a long conversation with a young black woman about what it what like growing up in such an oppressive society. She said that you just accepted it and made the best of it. She was a lively independent-thinking person and very intelligent yet had had no thoughts of rebellion. I had similar conversations in Russia. Now, I'm not suggesting that apartheid and communism is the same as Gilead but these are examples of how a state can control its citizens. Again, think of North Korea or Nazi Germany and how citizens can be controlled or incited into behaviour without much rebellion. I suspect that psychologists would have much to offer on our interpretation.

I have just finished this book and really liked it. It really makes you think about it.

I also thought there would have been more rebellion from women having their rights taken away from them. But the book doesn't give the whole context for what actually happened during this period. As Theresa pointed out governments have all sorts of ways to sending out and censoring information so that the general public remain calm which allows these sorts of things to creep in. And then before you know it you're caught.

Another thing from what I've read about dictatorships you just don't know who to trust so communication breaks down. People report people for the smallest thing if they think they will receive a reward such as protection of their family.

As far as a happy ending for this book......... it would be nice to think she escaped the regime but it is so up in the air. I really don't know what I think about that.

I really liked the historical notes because they added context to the narrators words. I'm glad this information was not included in the main text as it would have really taken away from the dispassionate voice. I also liked them because they give hope that she may have escaped. But even if she had, after an experience like that she may not have had a very happy life.

I agree with what Emma said about the last line of the historical notes. I think when we look back at what happened back in history we can only see it through our own experiences and what we know ourselves. Our judgments are coloured by our own experiences. Things that would be inconceivable for us were common place for people along way back in history. I think it's all about the context.

I think all people in a society would be unhappy. There is always someone envious of what they think you have so they are willing to do awful things if they think it will make their life better.

We are so lucky to live in a society that has free thinking.

I was also a bit saddened by the lack of compassion amongst the women towards each other. There was no solidarity, it was every one for themselves

I didn't really like the Commander either. He used the handmaids for his own gain. He may have been lonely so he saw this as a way of combating that.

The lack of solidarity between the women I think was caused by them being afraid of being reported. The not knowing which side they were on. In that situation it's everyone for themselves. It is a very lonely existence though.

I agree. The commander was just enjoying another aspect of life on his terms.

Offered was an aspect.

I've just finished, and although I'm glad to have read it, I found it a difficult read. Not, obviously, because of the writing--but because of the very bleakness of the novel and the chilling thought that as "dystopican" as this novel is, it isn't so very far removed from what has happened in the world. I didn't think Offred escaped at the end; I saw no reason to hope that she'd gotten away to Canada or England, as the historical notes suggested she might have.

I can finally participate in this thread! I have a few nuggets of thought.

Am I the only one who found the Historical Notes to be quite haunting. The people present are laughing and joking, whilst a lot of it is filled with silly details about fishing trips etc. To me it is further dehumanising Offred and the people imprisoned in Gilead. It is depressingly casual.

I have a question, what were your thoughts on the tourists we see near the beginning. They ask Offred, "Are you happy?". It looks like the rest of the world is totally aware of what is going on but no explanation is provided as to why no aid was provided for these men and women.

With regard to the underground resistance, it is hard for me not to compare it with that seen in Orwell's 1984. That a resistance is created in order to root out those who wish to fight. One of the more depression concepts I have ever come across in my life that makes you questions almost everything! Do you think the resistance even existed in this book? The only read evidence for it is in the information Offglen provides, but even that could have been provided by the upper tiers of power. Active war against this society is talked about but is distant, so it is difficult to nail down the existence of this underground group.

Kevin wrote: "I can finally participate in this thread! I have a few nuggets of thought.

Am I the only one who found the Historical Notes to be quite haunting. The people present are laughing and joking, whilst..."

Kevin, I found this book even more depressing than 1984. Both were brilliant reads, and I'm glad I read both--but this one seemed even more dehumanizing than 1984. I couldn't find any human bonds--maybe Offred and Moira, but even that seemed tenuous near the end. At least in 1984, Winston and Julia loved each other. At the end of this book, I couldn't help but think of the betrayal scene in 1984--when the older "kindly" landlord turns out to be either a representative of O'Brien (or O'Brien himself?). I definitely need something chipper to read now!

Thats for sure Cathleen! Something bright and cheerful with unicorns, rainbows and fairies in order to combat the dark world of Gilead. It's soon to be Monday as well. It's going to be tough going until I shake off this book hangover.

The tourist part kind of reminded me of people being guided through north Korea. Shown glimpses but only what they want you to see. I think if I hadn't read the orphanmasters son prior to reading this I would possibly have given this a higher rating.
I was slightly disappointed with the historical
Notes as I was expecting some questions to be answered. It just showed me how history books are just the authors version of events.

I suppose you are right about the historical notes being a realistic representation, although I still find it callous. It is set roughly 200 years after the events of Offred, in another 130 years will people jest when discussing the Holocaust? I guess it is only natural that they lose any ties felt with it.

I have that book on my shelf as well Seraphina but I think I need to watch some Peppa Pig with my niece to cheer me up first :)

I think i read somewhere in the book about history being tainted by our own experiences. When they are written down from historic documents we tend to write it from our point of view and what we know. I read that some where.

I liked this one better than 1984 and didn't find it as depressing. It was still bleak.

I had initially forgotten about the tourists and remember thinking of course the people living in the situation are going to say they are happy because someone might hear them say something against the government putting them in danger. For me with the tourists I didn't think why isn't anyone trying to help because thought of North Korea. I think it would be very difficult for people to infiltrate a county like that. Every one is watching everyone. I would think people would be rewarded for reporting people with things they covert. It's a really sad cruel way of governing, setting the people against each other. I think that's what most of those sorts of regimes do. Russia-Stalin, China-Moa, Pol pot regime in Cambodia to name a few.

It's really sad.

I think Atwood was making a statement that society has moved on but has portrayed it in a negative fashion on purpose. Although it is undoubtedly true that we are so numb to all the travesties being committed in Syria etc. that we no longer care I think when dealing with our own history if anything we won't let it go! I might be wrong but I think the academics were English or at least based in England? So that would fit with them not caring for other peoples' history.

Although if we were to juxtapose Anne Frank's diary with Offred's tapes, would we feel different? They are almost identical cases really. I definitely would consider Frank's story a sad one and definitely not laughable. It is a human story.

I will forever fail to sympathise with those academics in the postscript :P

Carrying on from what Emma has said I think it is impossible to truly empathise when we have not experienced what another person has gone through.

I think it was in the last part or somewhere in the post script when we read about history we interpret it from what we know ourselves.

Wow! I'm really surprised that it seems that I am alone in that I did not like this book. It took me a really long time to muddle my way thru it and the whole time I kept going because I was sure SOMETHING was actually going to happen. In some ways it was reminiscent of Never Let Me Go, but not nearly as beautifully put together, or relatable. I also stayed away from the threads until now and I'm quite surprised at all the positive comments... I'm really feeling like I must have somehow missed something, but I'm going to move on....

I had a few issues with this book myself Rose, I think the orphanmasters son is a better read of a similar story. I wasn't a fan of how she switched between reality and the main character reminiscing or dreaming and also didn't like how she threw in some phrases for shock value.
It was a 3.5 read for me

For me it was more of a 2.5 read.