Wizard and Glass discussion

This is my favorite book ever ever ever, but I must admit, Susan is really just a super annoying Mary-Sue (nm that I'm wearing her name, long story) which is surprising because I know King to be a better author than to write such a wish-fulfillment into any of his books.

Susan Delgado? Roland's sweetie? Yes, I agree.

Interesting. I never really thought of that, but now that you mention it, there might be something to your complaint. She is a little too perfect for words, isn't she?

Sean - exactly. Well I guess if we see her only thru Roland's eyes, she cannot be but too perfect for words. Which is why it'd be nice to see her thru somebody else's eyes, to see the real her

in this book, we see her not only with ROland's eyes, but also with Curt's and Alain's, and even they must admit that she's beautiful, smart and brave...I think we have other point of view, but she is who she is, and I find her nice. I was so sorry for her story and I wish there will be more (I'm starting Wolves of the calla, now).

yeah whatever, a flaw or two wouldn't hurt to make her more like, you know, a human being

well, considering how bad her luck is, I think she's more than human XD but I understand your point of view... I just think she's just fine the way she is.

I didn't think so. I thought she was a woman caught in her culture and any whininess (which I don't remember any) is understandable. Also, I thought she was a very strong young woman to stand up for Roland. I like her! :)

We see Susan Delgado mostly through Roland's eyes.
And the thing is that when someone is as in love as he is, the love interest can unfortunately be nothing else but a perfect Mary-Sue. I really liked Susan, even more than Susannah and Wizard and Glass is my favourite book in the entire series.

Susan was very young, yet strong and loving. I liked her.

Well, I wouldn't say she's a Mary Sue. After all, she'd more or less agreed to be a prostitute. She's introduced as the gilly and she doesn't really feel too bad about it until Roland rides along to shame her out of her *shrug* mentality.

Preferable to Daenerys (ASOIAF)and Briony (Shadowmarch), I'd say, and that is all I ask for a female in a epic fantasy. As long as you aren't as annoying as those too, you get a free pass.
i don't even notice, tbh.

I saw her as a good character, and not at all annoying. And I'm not sure that's enough of a defense: I can't see how you could possibly see her as annoying.

King did mention in the afterword of this book that he struggles to write romance, and so I can understand if his depiction of Roland and Susan's relationship took away from your enjoyment of the character whilst reading the book, but in hindsight, there is nothing that makes her particularly annoying.

She's a very typical girl, but is one that Roland finds the most beautiful in the world - we are alerted to Roland's bias early on and as readers we can identify the fact that she is not as incredible as King's narration makes her out to be.

In hindsight, I can't remember anything that Susan did that could have been interpreted as unjust. She never used anyone, and did as best as she could to help Roland out in his plot against Jonas' men. Susan was clearly meant to be seen as a well-meaning character.

I suppose that this disagreement only adds to the idea that King's characterisation is good, and that he can add depth to characters whilst guiding the readers through a plot with an effortlessness

Well, that's the whole point. She'd be much more likeable if she showed any of those flaws you mentioned. She'd seem more human, more real if she'd been 'unjust' or used anyone, etc.

Nico wrote: "Well, I wouldn't say she's a Mary Sue. After all, she'd more or less agreed to be a prostitute. She's introduced as the gilly and she doesn't really feel too bad about it until Roland rides along t..."

Ehh, Dany. Agree she is the pinnacle of annoying, tho I didn't find Briony *that* annoying. Barrick was much worse, IMHO.

Susan wrote: "Nico wrote: "Well, I wouldn't say she's a Mary Sue. After all, she'd more or less agreed to be a prostitute. She's introduced as the gilly and she doesn't really feel too bad about it until Roland ..."


Yes, the brother was horrible too, but Briony was exceptional for me. So any time I'm reading a fantasy series and I start to think "Is this girl annoying?" I just do a compare and contrast to her and Dany. If you aren't worse than Dany, I give you a free pass.

Dany with her whole "what will I wear? Gaze upon my beauty? Bow before my bullshit." She's like the poster girl of annoying female character now

oh yeah, don't get me started on fucking Dany -_-

(view spoiler)[I think that Susan shows a growth in her character that I don't associate with Mary Sues. She begins with a "go-along-to-get-along" attitude, allowing her Aunt Cordelia to sell Susan's own virtue in order to make money. She allows herself to be scooted along that path until she realizes that it is not in her own best interest. When she does, she defies her aunt and loves Roland as best she can within the strictures of the society they inhabit.

I do wish her story had ended differently, but I don't think it could have. Roland was already set for the Tower, and he sacrificed absolutely everyone on his way there, beginning with Susan. It's his nature to bewitch and attract people, both good and bad, and then climb over their dead bodies to reach the Tower. It's one of his fatal flaws, and why he has been repeating the sequence of events, perhaps since the beginning of time. (hide spoiler)]

Yeah, she was def. hard to stomach for me. Really the whole love saga. I don't think this is King's strong suit. There are a lot of cliches. Like when she gallops off on her horse when she's upset. The way it's described is so 'poetic' in such an eyerolling way. Seriously, the girl and the horse thing has been done. Also, I don't know how anyone takes her seriously. They treat her as a damsel in distress or a step above Sheemie (who is in fact retarded). I'm just disappointed in her. I am only sad in the end because this hurts Roland so bad. Also, wtf is with him all of the sudden being like yeah, she's not my Ka anymore now that I know of the Tower. Really?! She was your Ka for the whole book before this. Uggggggh gross and annoying.

Morgan wrote: "Really the whole love saga. I don't think this is King's strong suit. There are a lot of cliches. Like when she gallops off on her horse when she's upset. The way it's described is so 'poetic' in such an eyerolling way. "

i see where ya coming from. she is so poetic and beautiful and sad she makes you grate your teeth. you'd expect she farts glitters and rainbows really

Thought I was the only one who can't stand Susan. It's been a few years since I read "Wizard and glass" but I mostly remember how perfect Susan Delgado was in every way.
She just didn't seem like a normal human being to me and it took me out of the story.

The whole "love of my life" vibe I was supposed to be getting, I never got. It was a girl Roland fell in lust with at age 14/15, and they had lots of sex, right? Doesn't really sound like a deep, profound connection. Sounds like puppy love, maybe, but "Love of my life" material? Nope.

To me, Susan was the perfect passive maiden that constantly needed rescuing, and she was the perfect sacrifice to turn Roland completely to the tower. Even if Susan hadn't been sacrificed, Roland would have left her at some point in favor of finding the dark tower. He had to turn away from everything else in search of the tower or he wouldn't be the Roland he later became.

Oh and all the cheesy stuff she says like "If you love me then love me".... Yuck.

Judyann wrote: "Thought I was the only one who can't stand Susan. It's been a few years since I read "Wizard and glass" but I mostly remember how perfect Susan Delgado was in every way.
She just didn't seem like a normal human being to me and it took me out of the story. ..."

exactly. it would have been nice to see her thru someone else's pov, to actually see her having some human qualities