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Head Jumping
I'm for head hopping. I believe the narrator has god-level powers and we should see multiple POVs. That being said, I feel one (or very few) POV characters is currently popular. Shifting is best done with a new chapter but at least requires a section break.
For suspense purposes, it definitely helps to hop from perspective to perspective, often leaving the one MC in a cliff-hanger while checking in on the others.The piece I'm finishing up right now follows two characters, so the narrative jumps between them in almost every chapter. I use section breaks and try to make sure their name is in the first sentence of each section so the reader is not confused.
I'll agree, but with the caveat that it must be done in such a way that it doesn't jolt the reader out of the story. I (attempt to) carefully manage 4 POVs in a series I'm writing (the MC and 3 major supporting characters). I'll shift only when it's necessary to keep the four timelines moving at the same pace. A few readers' feedback indicated that initially they didn't like shifting into other POVs. Once they realized I was using this technique to give the reader a more complete view of all that was transpiring (letting them in on the secrets that the MC couldn't know), the readers let me know that they actually enjoyed the fact that I was "sharing the omniscience".
Even JRR Tolkien hops around, but in such a way that the reader is drawn along with only minimal adjustments as they read.
I'd suggest avoiding indiscriminate head-hopping; but if you have compelling reasons for a couple of POVs, go for it.
Head-hopping is not viewed well. It's ok when it is confined to a single chapter, with the POV changing with each chapter. Inside the chapter - doesn't usually work. That said, I did recently read a book where it changed mid-chapter, but most of the time it doesn't work.
Mod
Changing the point of view mid-chapter or every chapter is not head-hopping. Point-of-view changes within a chapter can and do most certainly work, if (like everything else in writing) the author takes the time to make it work.
The problem is, when you think head-hopping means any change in the point of view, then you hear how bad it is, it makes you afraid to attempt point of view changes in your writing. Depending on the piece, a change in point of view can offer the reader multiple views into your world and it gives you more freedom as the creator. Don't let a greatly misunderstood rule stand in your way of writing your story the way it was meant to be written.
I'm in favor of POV changes but I prefer it when there's breaks between characters. So one chapter or section is from one character's POV and then there's a break or new chapter and it's from another character's POV. I consider that to be a little different than head-hopping, which is when POVs are changing in the same sentence or paragraph. Or when it's 100% in one character's POV and then there's like a few sentences from another character's POV out of nowhere. Usually I don't like that, though I've seen some authors (both big name and indie) do it so well it doesn't bother me at all. It all depends what is right for the story, I suppose.
Mod
It is a problem if it's unclear or if you go straight from the internal thoughts of one character to internal thoughts of another character.
It's OK, and sometimes quite good to change. Like anything else it depends how it's done. The story needs to engage the reader though before it starts moving from POV to POV or else a tenuous thread will break. Switching back and forth and doing so with increasing speed, however, is not a substitute for building tension or creating urgency. It's just switching back and forth or from person to person with increasing speed, and if it goes too fast it can get a bit weird. It begins to feel like the person is trying to write a speed chase and switching scenes.
It used to be the way to hop without notice. Many books considered classics by the majority did it. Modern audiences prefer the intimacy of seeing from the eyes of a few, but the pendulum could easily swing back.
Of course, I use head hopping as synonymous with 3rd person omniscient. Technically this is the voice of a narrator (style doesn't change with character). If you want to split hairs, head hopping is wrong.
First-person narration or close third-person narration is quite popular now. That said, romance novels tend to feature two MCs who often share the story 70/30. There you typically get POV from one MC per chapter, but then they throw them together from time to time. I find it disconcerting to be thrust out of an MC's head if the scene affects both MCs equally, and would love suggestions of modern, non-romance novels that have scenes like this that you think are well-written.
Background: My betas keep wanting more internal thoughts, but I hear the voice of my critique group shouting "POV" every time I write a scene with multiple perspectives. I'm going with my readers on this, but would like to check out some good modern models to see how other authors have handled it.
Phillip wrote: "It used to be the way to hop without notice. Many books considered classics by the majority did it..."As in Frank Herbert's Dune.
It was a trendy thing at the time but it feels outdated to me now. Whenever I revisit that book I always suffer from jet lag trying to get used to that kind of writing.
I prefer to limit the in-head time to one character per section/chapter.
I'm also not a huge fan of reading a character's literal thoughts. "Why is that, when I used to think it was awesome?" he asked himself. "I suppose it does feel rather gimmicky."
I read Dune a few years ago and I loved the way he did it, all the thoughts. The trend now, or one of them, seems to be style, a highly stylized way of writing, at least with some SF writers, where style seems to be the goal: how clever can a thought be expressed. I find their writing a bit tiring. (OK. Just get on with it.) These are some really popular writers.It depends on the reader. A recent group read, Spinning Silver, had a lot of first person changes, and the number of them grew as the story progressed. It was kind of interesting, almost a game--OK, whose perspective is it now, because there was no obvious break or changing point--but then, for me, it turned into that, the writer's 'game,' if you will. My issues with the book were partly the gimmick aspect of it--it just wasn't that interesting to me--but the big problem was (view spoiler) which seems to be part of a lot of those take-offs on fairytales.
M.L. wrote: "I read Dune a few years ago and I loved the way he did it, all the thoughts. The trend now, or one of them, seems to be style, a highly stylized way of writing, at least with some SF writers, where..."I agree with a lot of that. Sometimes I feel writers and readers are more interested in some kind of gimmick or shtick of writing, and less so on the story itself.
@Laura, yes, I would go with your betas. Illuminating a character's mind, can add a lot to a story. Critique groups are good and helpful, but sometimes they stay in a certain place as far as writing and critiquing and don't move out of it. The show and tell thing is a good example, or so-called rules about not using passive, only use active, etc., blah, blah. Bunk. Real writers use it all the time. And sometimes when I'm not connecting with the story and stop and think about the reason why, there's no passive voice; it's all active, and something is just missing. :)
Since you asked for a recommendation, modern writer, a good one for multiple first person POV changes is Spinning Silver by Naomi Novik. Close third, none come right to mind. Omniscient, Game of Thrones by of course George Martin.
I personally feel that changing POV can be advantageous, but I am strongly against using it to "create tension" - it doesn't, and is merely an illusion. What I really dislike is using the change to have a sequence of cliff-hangers. I think changing POV is most useful when setting up a situation, and subsequent resolution. It also helps when something happens that MC does not see, but which goes to character of a minor character that will later be important.
Phillip wrote: "I'm for head hopping. I believe the narrator has god-level powers and we should see multiple POVs. That being said, I feel one (or very few) POV characters is currently popular. Shifting is best do..."Thank you. I keep hearing such negative things about head-hopping, how it's poor writing or amateurish or confusing. But I don't see how it can be avoided when writing omniscient third person. I agree that it should only be done with two or three characters within a single chapter and it should be done with care so as not to confuse the reader.
Another recommendation! I'm happy to recommend. :PFirst person alternating, Madeline Miller's Song of Achilles.
It's brilliant. I think all my favorite books are omniscient. :)
Mod
What used to be known as head-hopping is poor writing. It seems that anymore any shift in point of view is seen as head hopping, by many. Changing a point of view within a chapter or between chapters, or between scenes, etc. isn't head hopping, by the old definition. Changing within the same sentence or paragraph is.
What seems to be happening is, the advice is still being passed around not to head hop, but it's being passed around by people who don't really understand what head hopping is.
As an Indie author, you can do what you want. Agatha Christie in Murder on the Orient Express, she head hopped and shows you how to do it in a wonderful way. You can separate the POV changes with a break. That is the "accepted way" today. If you are wanting a Trad. Pub. then that would be your best best. You can also do it in chapters where each chapter is a different person.
The key here is to have a distinctive voice for each POV character. If you don't have that, don't try the head hopping. You will lose the reader since they won't know whose head they are in.
Traditional publishers are very down on head hopping and most of the gurus are against it. Personally, I believe you should do what works for the story. The readers will tolerate a lot if it's well done and they don't get lost.
Laura wrote: "I'm curious what others think about intra-chapter changes in POV. When you're writing a third person omniscient story and have two MCs in the same chapter, do you ever narrate the internal thoughts..."I frequently end-up with two POV characters in the same chapter. The hard part is making sure it is clear to the reader that a change in POV has happened or is forthcoming. I usually leave some blank lines ahead of a new POV character's first lines. Which I guess makes it a pseudo-chapter.
My understanding of head-hopping was that the reader gets the internal thoughts of more than one character within a sentence or paragraph, and it is potentially confusing. However, as some of the comments mentioned, I think it would be normal to read the internal thoughts of more than one character in omniscient third person, though perhaps not in the same sentence or paragraph. Changes in POV seem like a different thing, where you completely switch to everything being from the perspective of a different character, rather than just a brief glimpse. Really frequent changes in POV can be a bit jarring. Sometimes I do end up having some POV switches quite close together, especially towards the end of books when there is a lot of action going on quite quickly, but I try not to have them more often than is necessary. I think it also helps if the characters' voices are quite different to each other, so that the reader doesn't forget or get confused whose POV the chapter is written from.
Mod
I believe that's the point. While I keep most scenes to one character, there are moments when I want to show the thoughts of more - and in those, I use scene breaks for the shift to avoid confusion.
There's one scene I still have to figure out where I wanted to continuously shift it from one character to another - and beta readers will be a factor on how exactly the scene might change.
L.K. wrote: "My understanding of head-hopping was that the reader gets the internal thoughts of more than one character within a sentence or paragraph..."Exactly. Like the following from the beginning of Dune:
Damn that Jessica! the Reverend Mother thought. If only she'd borne us a girl as she was ordered to do!
Jessica stopped three paces from the chair, dropped a small curtsy, a gentle flick of left hand along the line of her skirt. Paul gave the short bow his dancing master had taught him--the one used "when in doubt of another's station."
The nuances of Paul's greeting were not lost on the Reverend Mother. She said: "He's a cautions one, Jessica."
Jessica's hand went to Paul's shoulder, tightened there. For a heartbeat, fear pulsed through her palm. Then she had herself under control. "Thus he has been taught, Your Reverend."
What does she fear? Paul wondered.
Mod
As far as I am concerned, any rule can be broken provided you know what you are doing, you know why you are doing it, and you know the reader will gain from what you are doing. If it makes things clearer for the reader, do it; if it might confuse them, do not. It then comes down to the writer's skill and understanding of the reader. Some writers have it, others don't.
This has been such a fascinating discussion. Thank you! It's been 25 years since I read Dune, but the scene Micah submitted makes me want to take another look at it. The quoted thoughts don't seem gimmicky or old-fashioned to me, but maybe that's because I'm old enough to have read it 25 years ago ;) In any event, it will be interesting to compare with George Martin's style of POV-shifting.
When your novels are about a collective such as a fictional rock band with six members, it's kind of hard not to have different POVs (points of view, correct?) within each chapter. Actually, the narrators of the books are fictional pop culture pundits, but still...and then there are the "bad guys" etc. Usually I just put in a paragraph break...head jumping? Never heard of that until now...been writing since I was in my 40s...I'm 67 now. All these new terms...POV, NaNoWriMo...SPA...head-jumping...yikes!
Well, it's head-hopping, not jumping :-). I agree that looking into multiple people’s thoughts is confusing. I don't remember having read any books where it was done to advantage. I make a rule that if I want different POV, I do it in different chapters. In my case, I only do it so that readers can get better insight into the character. If you had a story where there was say a big event that would benefit from one or two paragraphs of thoughts from different people, I think it can be done well, so long as there was no ambiguity on who is the current thinker.
In all my reading about POV etc., I always came away believing that head hopping was really doing it in contiguous paragraphs, which I’ve completely avoided. I’ve read indie books where there are two peoples thoughts in one paragraph, and for me, it’s a complete turn off for some reason.
Yeah, it's only "bad" if it's happening randomly in the middle of the paragraph or sentence, which I have seen in a few books, even trad published ones. However, I think some readers don't like POV switching so when they complain about it they use the term head hopping.
I also thinking it's genre-dependent. There almost have to be POV switches in an epic fantasy, for example, to give readers a wide scope or view of the world and the epic scale adventure, but with other genres it might be considered weird to have so many characters.
Dwayne wrote: "Xanxa wrote: "Thank you. I keep hearing such negative things about head-hopping, how it's poor writing or amateurish or confusing."What used to be known as head-hopping is poor writing. It seems ..."
Then what I do isn't truly head-hopping. I don't change POV within the same paragraph. I thought any change in POV within a chapter counted as head-hopping. Thank you for setting me straight on this point.
Mod
Back in the eighties and nineties when I read every book I could get my hands on about fiction writing, head-hopping was described often as rapid and frequent changes in point of view, especially within the same paragraph. Now whenever I come across a blogger who is trying to give instructions on fiction writing, they seem to equate head-hopping with any change in the point-of-view. Maybe that is the current definition. If it is, I disagree with it. Changes in the same paragraph can certainly be confusing. Changing with each scene or chapter, not so much. A short story I recently wrote has twelve changes of point of view. No one who has read it was confused. So, I say if a change in point of view works in your story and doesn't become confusing, do it.
I made a few head-hopping mistakes in my first book. I would have internal dialogue often within the same paragraph. Someone gave me feedback that this was jarring. Re-reading it now, I agree. I have corrected this in my subsequent work and I think it's about perspective. I try to tell a story one perspective at a time. I write short chapters and I try to keep each chapter focused on a specific perspective. I think it's made the quality of the reading experience much higher.
This is the hardest thing for authors to adjust to. I was very guilty of that when I started writing!
Head hopping/jumping, is when you change POV without warning. If you want to change POV then leave a couple of spaces and do so. That is the "accepted" way of doing it. Don't change POV in the middle of a paragraph. Make sure you start a new one. If you want to read an expert way of head hopping, read Murder on the Orient Express. Agatha Christie does and excellent job of going between twelve people on the train. (Don't try this today if you want to be traditionally published. The editors hate it. They don't even like POV changes within a chapter.)If you are self publishing, do what you want and enjoy it, but remember, if a reader gets lost as to whose head they are in, you will loose that reader. Keep it to different paragraphs for sure. Different chapters is great. Make sure the reader knows whose head they are in at any one time. The whole goal is to keep the reader reading. You don't want to pull them out of the story.
I forgot to mention, my own novel is written from multiple first person present tense POVs.I do that so the reader gets the emotional response and perspective of that character. The characters may interact with the same situation together but each is feeling and thinking something different at the time. That becomes an important plot point as the story goes on.
My own novel is a fantasy novel set in dreamland and waking world and i wanted to ground the reader by the realism of the first person present tense form. Since that is how we do experience our lives. Third person and past tense is always an unreal POV.
Think about it, you have never experienced anything in a third person manner. You also only in present reflect back from memory on a past event. But you live in the present moment.
Therefore I choose to present the fantasy story in a realistic POV. Hence the only fantasy element was allowing the reader to jump into the other characters first person experience.
Just some thoughts.
My readers all accepted it and didn't have any problems.
Mod
Nah. Not buying it. I've never read a fictional story that felt completely real. Some feel more real than others I suppose, but the point of view and tense have nothing to do with it.
Mod
That's how I feel it as a reader.
I won't comment much on realism as I read mainly fantasy and SF - genres in which being consistently unreal is the main point.
It's not all on the writer. Readers connect to the stories they connect to. Nonfiction as well: it's portrayed through the eyes, and bias, of the writer.
The term 'head hopping' has become so distorted that when I hear it, or see it, I think it's most likely being used as a catchall for change of perspective and therefore not correct.
Head hopping is specific. It is the change in POV within a scene with no breaks other than a new paragraph. Again, the best example of it is in Murder on the Orient Express which handles 12 POV and does a ton of head hopping. If not done well, you have no idea of whose head you are in and the reader becomes confused. If done well, you will have distinct voices and the reader will know who's head they are in. Editors and publishers aren't fond of head hopping since most who do it, don't do it well and hopping from one head to another does make the book harder to read and will pull the reader out of the action as they sort out whose head they are in. It also decreases that connection to the MC. Most readers today won't take the time to read a book where they aren't kept inside the head of one character for each scene.
As to 3rd person/past tense not being a good way to connect to readers, Dwayne has it right. It's all about the emotion, the building of that connection to the reader. You, as a writer need to build that connection and keep it through out the book. It's difficult even in first person.
As ML pointed out, not everyone will connect with every story. You will find more people and editors/publishers dislike first person. It's difficult to write and stay in that person's POV while remembering you can only write about what that one person sees, hears, and experiences while making that tenuous connection with a good voice for that character and a good story to back it up.
Dwayne wrote: "Xanxa wrote: "Then what I do isn't truly head-hopping. I don't change POV within the same paragraph. I thought any change in POV within a chapter counted as head-hopping. Thank you for setting me s..."Sometimes, I wonder about the point of some of these "pointers" about writing. There are really no hard fast rules, but you are governed by what your intellect, and understanding of your readership allow. I think we get into trouble looking for hard fast rules. Rather than saying, "Don't head-hop", or "Only change POV or tense in different chapters", I think better advice is to be more general. Something like, "If you change POV within a story, be careful that you do not make the story confusing", or, "If you are head-hopping, bear in mind that this can get very confusing and unclear very quickly"
Am I wrong in this thinking? You have to balance your creativity with clearly communicating the idea to your readership. Beyond that, "Rules" are just sorta suggestions.
Maybe I have had too much coffee or something, and should not have said anything, but I respect your opinion, Dwayne, and wonder about your take on it?
Ian wrote: "As far as I am concerned, any rule can be broken provided you know what you are doing, you know why you are doing it, and you know the reader will gain from what you are doing. If it makes things c..."I wish I had read this before I replied to Dwayne on here! lol. You made the same point I did, but more efficiently!
You are a skilled writer! :-D
Dwayne wrote: "Gary wrote: "Third person and past tense is always an unreal POV."Nah. Not buying it. I've never read a fictional story that felt completely real. Some feel more real than others I suppose, but t..."
If you reflect on how you experience life - it is not a 3rd person past tense kind of experience. It is a 1st person present tense thing - so on a subconscious level when you read 1st person present tense it should feel more 'real'. There isn't the distance between the character's voice in your head and your own thoughts and feelings. 3rd person past tense puts a distance between you the reader and your character. That is my own opinion and experinece of reading.
B.A. wrote: "Editors and publishers aren't fond of head-hopping since most who do it, don't do it well and hopping from one head to another does make the book harder to read and will pull the reader out of the action as they sort out whose head they are in. It also decreases that connection to the MC. Most readers today won't take the time to read a book where they aren't kept inside the head of one character for each scene."I agree that Editors/publishers have an issue with 1st person. I choose it from a psychological and philosophic background. It is the POV of how we humans experience real life. So, I wanted to write in that manner to ground the reader in the reality of real lived experience. Hopefully, I wrote and conveyed the emotions of my characters. My readers seemed to not have an issue with it and enjoyed it.
Gary wrote: "If you reflect on how you experience life - it is not a 3rd person past tense kind of experience. It is a 1st person present tense thing - so on a subconscious level when you read 1st person present tense it should feel more 'real'."I see where you're coming from here. However, I have trouble with 1st person because it keeps saying "I" and "me", but I know that's not me. My name isn't X or Y, and my attitude or typical reaction to events isn't like that character. Just because I'm reading it as if it's me doesn't mean I'm more connected to the story.
That's why I prefer 3rd person. Doesn't matter how good the author is, I know I'm reading a book. I'm being told a story. So I prefer the traditional story-telling method of past tense and 3rd person.
Mod
I have written in first person and have read books in first person. I don't find it any more real. First person often reads as if the main character is telling the story to someone. When you add present tense to the equation it feels artificial. Who, while they're in the middle of a critical moment in their life, stops to narrate it to some bystander? "I see the man pull a gun out of his holster. He points it at me and tells me to hand him all my money. I hesitate for I don't have a lot of money but what I have is all I have. I have no idea when I'm going to get more money. Giving all my money to this man who is threatening my life is going to leave me flat broke and I might as well be dead. I make a grab and try to get the gun from him. He fires and the bullet goes into my arm. It's painful, but I will live through it. I try again to wrench the gun from him. Again he fires and this bullet takes out my knee. I stumble to the ground. He kicks me in the ribs. I am defeated. Yet, I can't let him have my money. I have to find a way out of this." If anything, it is the least realistic way of writing.
My own personal thoughts as they are happening would make a terrible story. "It's crowded here today. Great. That lady is standing right in front of the cheese I want to buy. Oh, they're playing Billy Idol. Great song. Why do they have to interrupt the music to announce sales going on? It's better that they play this music than the muzak I grew up on, but I wish they didn't... will this lady move out of my way? She just coughed on the cheese I want. Well, it's in plastic so. Did I get grapes yet? I was going to get grapes. I know that guy. I'm going to reach for the cheese. Wow, she gave me a dirty look. Tough. I got my cheese. How do I know this guy? I wish they'd stop interrupting Billy Idol. I know that guy from somewhere. My shoe is coming untied and my feet itch. I hate the new packaging on that cereal. I miss the old picture on the old boxes. That guy nodded at me. How do I know him? Did I feed the dogs this morning? I meant to. I hope I did. Grapes. I still need grapes."
Dwayne wrote: "Gary wrote: "If you reflect on how you experience life - it is not a 3rd person past tense kind of experience. It is a 1st person present tense thing - so on a subconscious level when you read 1st ..."Your supermarket shopping commentary was actually pretty fun to read! I agree about first person present tense though - I don't find it particularly comfortable to read. In fact, it can almost be a bit stressful for me as it feels too immediate and too intense. I'm sure some readers feel differently though, and perhaps it works better in some genres than others.
Nowadays I avoid books written in the present tense, partly because I always write in the past tense and if I read something written in the present tense I tend to start writing my own story in present tense by mistake, which is a pain to sort out later on!
Personally, I find these kinds of shifts more difficult when an author jumps from one first-person scene to a different first-person scene than when the narration is third-person from the start (so long as both characters are firmly established before they flip between POVs in the same scene).
Are there any authors who you believe write great intra-chapter POV shifts?