Reading the 20th Century discussion

A buddy read for....


The Hours Before Dawn by Celia Fremlin

It's a title Elizabeth highlighted over at The Midnight Bell

This discussion will open in mid February 2020

The blurb....

Discover the original psychological thriller...

Winner of the 1960 Edgar Award for best mystery novel

Louise would give anything - anything - for a good night's sleep. Forget the girls running errant in the garden and bothering the neighbours. Forget her husband who seems oblivious to it all. If the baby would just stop crying, everything would be fine.

Or would it? What if Louise's growing fears about the family's new lodger, who seems to share all of her husband's interests, are real? What could she do, and would anyone even believe her? Maybe, if she could get just get some rest, she'd be able to think straight.

In a new edition of this lost classic, The Hours Before Dawn proves - scarily - as relevant to readers today as it was when Celia Fremlin first wrote it in the 1950s.

Time to discuss this classic slice of domestic suspense

Susan's glowing review of this book, along with other people's, have convinced me that I'd really enjoy this book.

I won't be able to read it this month however I hope to get to it eventually.

The great thing is that I can return to this discussion, and revive it, when I finally read it.

I'm looking forward to following the discussion though.

This was a wonderful read. I did have to get my head around the more, er, relaxed, parenting practices of the 1950's, but I know it was perfectly normal then to leave babies, in prams, in the garden, for example. I absolutely loved the voice of Louise Henderson and she made the novel come alive for me.

It does indeed sound like an essential read.


I love the cover of the 2017 Faber & Faber reissue (see message 1)

Celia Fremlin, who died aged 94 in 2009, can be labelled the grandmother of psycho-domestic noir - what a tag

Nigeyb wrote: "Celia Fremlin, who died aged 94 in 2009, can be labelled the grandmother of psycho-domestic noir - what a tag"

I had not heard that term before, but I think it fits perfectly. My friend whose reading of Fremlin over the past couple of months had me ask about her in this group. Not realizing it previously, we've both become drawn to noir.

As to the novel, I was reminded about sleep deprivation for mothers of newborns. It looked to me that this made Louise an unreliable narrator. (At least for most of the novel.)

I think this was an incredible book for it's time. I thought the characters were well described, so there was no way that they could not be identified, and the tension was really well built up. I think every mother, even though they know that the sleepless nights will end some time, feels they are never ending. Reading it I found I was getting tired myself! Also, it did occur to me that back then people were more concerned about neighbours complaining and their opinions than they seem to be now. As we know, when you are extremely tired, even small things will seem more important than they would normally be.
To me she described the role of the father as typical of the time. Him being the main bread-winner, did not concern himself with the running of the household, and the attitude that the children's behavior was solely the concern of the mother.

Jill wrote: "To me she described the role of the father as typical of the time. Him being the main bread-winner, did not concern himself with the running of the household, and the attitude that the children's behavior was solely the concern of the mother."

I agree with some of this comment. I was surprised that Mark would call his only son a brat and say they never should have had him. Even though fathers mostly didn't get involved with child-rearing, having a son was important to them.

Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Jill wrote: "To me she described the role of the father as typical of the time. Him being the main bread-winner, did not concern himself with the running of the household, and the attitude that the..."

Yes . That is true. Most men seem to want a son.

Maybe I should cut him some slack, though. He was somewhat sleep deprived, too. And he did redeem himself, somewhat, finally showing some care and concern for Louise.

There were things that I think all mothers will recognise in this book. Sleep deprivation can be a difficult thing to deal with and you do just never seem to get anything done. I also thought it was quite moving when Louise talked of her marriage. Of how the love and closeness was just 'put away,' until this time had passed.

I also adored Mark's mother, who was just determined not to be involved with her grandchildren and thought her children being off her hands was wonderful. Must be where Mark got his attitudes from :)

I had this on order from the library but looks as if two book groups have borrowed all the copies - a testament to the book's popularity! So I have ordered a copy and will hopefully be able to join in before too long.

There was a waiting list at my library too, but I am now at the top of it.

Interesting to hear that it is popular at the libraries. I think this is a very impressive debut. I would be interested to read more by her, to see whether it was a one off, award winner, or whether she continued to be as wonderful as she is in her first book.

Susan wrote: " think this is a very impressive debut. I would be interested to read more by her, to see whether it was a one off, award winner, or whether she continued to be as wonderful as she is in her first book."

I can only offer that the friend who read this, and from whom I came here to ask about her, has read 3-4 more this challenge season. She has 5 more on hand for her future. I suspect not all of us will delve that deeply, but it is an indication that Fremlin keeps on delivering.

That's good to know, Elizabeth. Certainly, I do want to read more by her. Her next, in order of publication was Uncle Paul which also sounds extremely interesting. I think that will be the one that I read next.

Keep us posted, Susan. I'm not sure where I'll go next with her. There are only 3 more available for the Kindle here in the US. (Not that I can't go whole hog and pick up a bunch of used paperbacks.)

I will. Quite a few seem to have appeared on kindle here, which is great.

I really liked this one and will definitely go on to read more.

Well, that's lucky, Jill, as we have decided to add another buddy read. We'll be reading: Uncle Paul her second novel in June.

Uncle Paul (1959) was Celia Fremlin's second novel, and consolidated the success of her suspenseful debut The Hours Before Dawn.

Fifteen years ago Uncle Paul was exposed as a murderer by his wife Mildred, and sent to prison. Now a seaside holiday for Mildred's half-sister Isabel and her family seems to be the venue for Uncle Paul's revenge. Mildred arrives at a lonely cottage near to Isabel's caravan site, and Isabel's urgent summons to her sister Meg brings the three women together to play out a drama of fear and suspicion, betrayal and revenge.

Looking forward to reading more by her too.

My copy of this has now arrived, so I will be able to join in soon.

Good to hear, Judy.

Judy wrote: "My copy of this has now arrived, so I will be able to join in soon."

Yay! Looking forward to seeing your thoughts. I hope you enjoy it as much as the rest of us!

Thanks, Susan and Elizabeth. I have now started and am enjoying it so far - I was pleasantly surprised to see how much humour the novel contains, given its noirish cover with a quote saying "It chilled me to the core".

Yes, it is very funny.

I'm so glad you mentioned the humor. I was also surprised, thinking I was getting into something decidedly dark. It does get dark, but so different than what I think of as noir. Nigeyb references "psycho-domestic noir" - so apt.

I'm amused by the friend's husband Humphrey who is so desperate to be thought of as a ladykiller, and the way his wife takes no notice of all his laboured double entendres!

Yes, very amusing!

Finished already - very naughty of me to read this in a day when I should have been doing other things, but I could not resist. A wonderful read. I don't think that "chilled me to the core" quote on the cover is right at all, though - I found it quite warm, with all the humour and minutiae of family life.

Should we have a spoiler thread for this one? I would quite like to discuss the later plot developments, so will set one up if others feel the same.

Judy wrote: "Should we have a spoiler thread for this one? I would quite like to discuss the later plot developments, so will set one up if others feel the same."

Good idea. I don't know if there are others still reading it, but maybe they will come to it later and appreciate our not discussing the later parts of it. (I know that would be my preference had I not already read it.)

Yes, that's fine by me.

I’ve yet to read it so no spoilers here yet please

The library copy is on its way and I will be reading it soon.
Most of the time I don't mind spoilers, so it is fine if you want to include them here and also fine if you want to put them in a different thread.

Thanks, everyone. I have now set up a spoiler thread:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Please post any thoughts on later plot developments there and not in this thread, to avoid spoiling the book for those who haven't read it yet!

I have picked up the library copy now and could not resist reading a few chapters of it. Thereis no sense of menace so far, but there is humour (and sleepless nights).

Hope you enjoy it, Val. I agree that it is not, particularly, menacing.

Val wrote: "I have picked up the library copy now and could not resist reading a few chapters of it. "

That's just what happened to me - I thought I'd just read a bit and ended up reading the whole thing! I loved it, but also agree it is not very chilling, despite the cover blurb's claims.

Me too, it was very compelling, I agree that it wasn't menacing but it did make me feel rather tired. I probably would have read it quicker if this wasn't the case.

There is no exhaustion quite like having a new baby, is there? However, I was also surprised at the more lax parenting. Imagine going on a ride at the fair and parking baby, in a pram, at the side, with a huge crush of people everywhere? I will admit to being a little over-protective, but I had my heart in my mouth in a lot of the scenes!

Yes, in that fairground ride scene I was just thinking, don't do it!

I read the first 10 pages or so yesterday - very enjoyable so far.

Also, that 1950's thing of parking the pram outside for fresh air, was an interesting insight. I can imagine there were neighbours who got fed up of hearing babies crying all the time, as - if they were far enough away from the house - you wouldn't necessarily hear them. No baby monitors then.

Probably healthier though.

I don't think prams being pushed round the streets late at night would have been considered all that strange (as Louise thinks), lots of parents have resorted to that attempt to get baby off to sleep.

Ours went out for a drive. Worked every time. Carrycots were allowed then not seats.

Val wrote: "I don't think prams being pushed round the streets late at night would have been considered all that strange (as Louise thinks), lots of parents have resorted to that attempt to get baby off to sleep."

Done it myself many times

Yes, me too. Halfway down the street in the buggy and they were always sound asleep...

I've been both the screaming baby and the pram pusher, twenty something years apart.

There used to be nets to put over the prams left outside supposedly to stop cats from laying on the baby and smothering them.

I think you would have to be more concerned about foxes now.