Literary Award Winners Fiction Book Club discussion

Please discuss thru book two here.

Please discuss from beginning of book 3 to the end, here.

Were we ever told why the brother is named Chapter Eleven? I don't recall it and the name is so odd.

No, not finished yet. I am about to start Part 4. No stratagy for reading except a boring life. I am not married, have no children or grandchildren, so I work full time and read in my free time. Rarely watch TV and can't afford to go out much. Not exactly a strategy I would recommend.

I finished it. Don't read further if you are afraid of spoilers.

I thought that the way the doctors in N.Y. treated the narrator was pornographic. Here is a 14 year old adolescent, very self-conscious about her odd body and she is subjected to pelvic exams before groups of male doctors, nude photos by a male photographer. I did not see any difference between the publishing of those photos in medical books from nude pictures in skin magazines, from the learing eyes of the medical professionals using her for funding sources and the curious stares of peep show patrons funding a businessman. And, in fact, when he does prostitute himself, he attributes his numbness to what happened in N.Y.

In Part 4 the author claims that living does not perpell us into the future, but into the past. I understand what is happening literally, why this book had to begin in 1922, but I am not sure I understand or agree with that assertion off the page.

It's interesting to see another person's perspective as I wasn't bothered by the doctors actions at all. While I thought it was insensitive, it seemed like something that would happen with an unusual case. I can definitely see where you are coming from and it has made me think about it some more. It doesn't seem right for a young person who has little knowledge of what is going on to be subjected to that. I thought it was a shame that the narrator felt he had to run away.

I was sort of surprised that he did run away. Although his parents do not talk about the medical condition directly, they are not abusive nor is there a history of the narrator being completely shut down by the parents. It is clear that they are simply trying to be sensative, fearing that naming the fact that their daughter was actually genetically male would confuse, embarrass, upset their child. They are trying to create the least disruption for their daughter. Tessie especially seems to have a very strong relationship with her daughter. I could not figure out why she runs rather than tries to talk. I also found the shift from self-conscious teen who would not undress in the locker room or let her bes friend see her undress to a teen who simply drops her gown, spreads her legs and prepares for multiple doctor's eyes or the camera to have been too abrupt. There should have been quite a bit of squeemishness. She has never even had a pelvic exam yet and faked her period to avoid seeing an obgyn. Maybe the male author felt out of his element in trying to get inside the head of this teen in this touchy situation and so just skipped over it all.

I've finished.

Part 3-4 was much more my type of a book, in a way it's more personal. I liked that we've seen true development of the characters, the connection made between Cal rebirth and the one of Desdemona's and Lefty.

The medical checking was very insensitive although I can believe this is how it looked back then and also can understand while Cal felt detached from it. I think when she/he was in the room with the professionals that treated cases similar to his/her she felt completely different, safer, than being in the locker room afraid of judgment and ostracism.

The run away part look a bit ridicules for me. I see why she might wanted to leave it all behind and try to confront her identity with the new clean slate. On the other hand she seemed to be quite a reasonable person and, as Irene noticed close with her family I'd expect the run away rather after she tried to talk with her parents and only when they showed the lack of understanding.

The explanation regarding Cal's biological stat given by Desdemona and breaking the silence regarding her relationship with Lefty, seemed very rushed for me. What do you think about this part?

I was a little surprised when Desdamona made her reveal at the end. But it felt credible. She had withdrawn more and more from the present. It felt as if she had retreated back to her Greek village in her mind where she had grown up with reports of people doing similar things, where it might be understood, if not totally approved of.

Find myself sick in bed on Christmas day (a first), so decided to resume reading. I had stopped with the intention of not finishing the book. Just started on Part 3 and find it really interesting. Now that the focus has shifted to Callie, am finding the book likeable.

Irene wrote: "Were we ever told why the brother is named Chapter Eleven? I don't recall it and the name is so odd."

I was wondering about this myself throughout most of the book. It isn't explained when he's born, and it's such an inauspicious name, since the only context I've ever heard it in is to refer to a type of bankruptcy. (view spoiler)[ But when you get to the very end and find out he ran his father's successful hot dog franchise into bankruptcy within five years of his father's death, I think it becomes clear that it's Cal's little joke and that that isn't Chapter Eleven's "real" name, but rather the identity he took on as an adult (hide spoiler)]

Finished it! And feel like I just completed a marathon: am exhausted and happy it's over. I would rate this novel 3 stars, perhaps 2.5. Although the premise of the novel is intriguing, there were far TOO many words to slog through; especially the detailed narrative of the family's European heritage. I understand the incestuous relationship of the grandparents was critical to the plot, but too much narrative was devoted on this part of the novel. It's led me to wonder if Callie's/Cal's story was intended to be a sub-plot. It would seem that Callie/Cal was the protagonist, but so much of the novel was not about her and her transformation from female to male identity. Do contemporary authors get rewarded for how many words they churn out in their novels?

I can't help but contrast this to the novel from last month -- "The Sense of an Ending". At about 165 pages, every word in that novel was significant and I believe a far superior novel to this one.

I'm only a month late, but I finally finished this! I'm also giving it only 3 stars. There was some interest for me in the story itself, but there was far too much background to prop up the premise (about understanding oneself as inter-sex). I think it's probably correct that the book was supposed to be about many different transitions, including the transition of Detroit itself, and that Cal(lie)'s transition was only one of those. But by the end I felt like I had put in a lot of time and didn't care as much as I should have about the characters. I'm still glad I read it because I'd heard so much about it over the years.

I'm also late NCW and just embarking on Book 4 - I've skipped most of the posts in this thread and will read them when I get to the end.

I've enjoyed the story up to the end of Book 3. I thought the complexities of Callie's experiences as an adolescent were well written. The experience of finding and shaping an identity in adolescence (a journey most of us bumble through) was interwined effectively with the confusion Callie felt while exploring her sexual identity as an intersex adolescent. I thought the author handled Callie's gradual realisation of her biological circumstances really well.

But still have to make it through Book 4...

I finally made it to the end of this epic story and I really enjoyed it. Tricky to get into, overly detailed at times, but a great read.

I was drawn to the comment in the first discussion thread about so many characters being in an 'in-between' state. I think this is true -- the intersex component, the immigrant experience, the focus on mixed race, adolescence and the transition from childhood to adulthood, and old age and waiting to die. And also countries, cities and towns - often in in-between stages.

I liked that the author challenged the binary, black and white attitudes and approach we often have to life. Life is grey, yet society tries to make us live it black and white. I think the anthropological findings about different societies/communities and their approach to intersex people is interesting. We live in such a gendered society that intersex and transgender and gender dysmophia are extremely challenging for many people to come to terms with. We're either/or.

The running away didn't surprise me so much. Fourteen years old, the mid-1970s, a gendered society, and the prospect of never fitting in and being considered a 'freak'... People run away from their lives for many reasons - and this was also a theme. Jimmy ran away. Father Mike ran away (or tried to). Seeking a clean slate in life when we feel like there's so much baggage or too many challenges ahead is possibly quite common.

I'm glad I persisted with this one!