Literary Award Winners Fiction Book Club discussion

Please discuss thru book two here.

I have read Part 1 and am hooked. I enjoy the writing style, a bit of terrific sarcasm, a bit of gut-wrenching glimpses of life's horror, a bit of engaging family drama. I am impressed at the balance created in the perspective. On some level, I feel like a voyeur, enough of a distance to be entertained, but far away enough that the blood and flames and incest does not quite touch me. On another level, I feel as if I know these people and have been drawn into their stories. I suppose it is the perspective of one separated by a few generations, but linked by blood.

Hi Guys, I'm a bit late, but it's me who nominated this book. I'm just starting. This is my third Jeffrey Eugenides book, that I'm going to read, and I'm really excited since I hated the guts of The Marriage Plot, but I really liked The Virgin Suicides.

Finished Part 2. It is interesting that I am half way through the book and know virtually nothing about the narrator. It seems that we can only understand the story of the narrator if we understand the generations of family that went before. I know that there are cultures in which ancestory is very critical. But, as an American, far less attention is given to knowing the stories of family. My default attitude is to give less importance to the lives of those who went before. It will be interesting to see if my sense of this narrator is indeed interpreted through these 200 pages of grandparent stories.

Jimmy's story surprised me. I never saw that coming.

@ Irene, just a blank guess since I'm barely started, maybe his ambiguity in regards with sexuality is supposed to be mirrored in his narration.

I also think that we are going to see more of the narrator's story in Part 3.

I am wondering about some characters such as the doctor, who seem to be given significant attention then disappear. I am thinking that it must be note worthy that we see this man brought low with tragedy (won't be specific since not everyone has read that far), then disappear only to resurface almost totally transformed, with no real signs of his trauma. I am wondering if personal self-transformation is such an important theme that even characters who do not move the narrative are given enough attention to allow us to see how it can be done. I am wondering if our narrator is seeing this as an American quality in contrast to the European reality. Lena certainly transforms during her short time in Detroit.

Not sure which elements you are referring to when you say "more disquieting". So far, the brutal genecide at the end of Part 1 has been the most disquieting
. I never do well with violence and cruelty.

If you are referring to the incest between Lefty and Desdamona, there is a huge ik factor for me. I can't seem to hold the two relationships together in my mind; I either think of them as siblings or spouses flipping back and forth. Of course, the way this is told, there are so many tongue-in-cheek comments that I find it hard to take it too seriously. At times, this family seems like a spoof.

What are some of the surprising ways that it is intriguing you?

I really have a hard time with the relationship between Lefty and Desdemona. It doesn't seem very authentic to me and I was shocked that their cousin seemed to accept it so easily.

I was definitely shocked by Jimmy's story. I also did not see that coming. The return of the doctor to the story was also interesting. I was surprised at how he had transformed. I am still reading Part 2 and am intrigued at how the story will continue to unfold. I do hope the narrator's story becomes the focus soon.

As to Lena accepting Lefty and Desdemona's marriage, Desdemona kept telling Lefty that Lena came from the same village and knew that things happened. The narrator implies that there were more incestial relationships in those small Greek villages than people admit to. Hmmm, not an endorcement of Greek culture. LOL

Sorry guys that I'm such a terrible discussion leader for this past few days but I've been extremely busy with work and although tomorrow's weekend I'm out dealing with other project (also work related) for a whole day. I'll be reading all Sunday though and from then on I will participate more. I'm really happy to see so many comments, although haven't read them yet, not to be spoiled since I'm only few pages in.

I read this book years ago and loved it! So glad there's such active discussion for it. Also loved Virgin Suicides and have Marriage Plot on my shelf but have yet to read it. Won't be joining in this particular discussion as I'm still SO busy with the new baby but am SO glad that you all seem to be enjoying it so far!

Book Lover A. wrote: "The incest is a very strongly problematic factor for me. I can't bear the idea of it in my mind. It puts me off. With that being said, the novel does intrigue me in a number of ways I find surprisi..."

Finally I can add something to the discussion since I was manage to do a bit of reading and advance with the pages.
Eugenides style works for me so far, although I can see the shift happening from more dream-like style of The Virgin Suicides to more reportage-like here (which is more in the manner of The Marriage Plot). This is probably determined by the historical aspect of this book, which I, being a history geek, love.

How do you find it, those history references?

Answering your question Andrea, I'm not really disturbed with the incest aspect of this book. I think it's part of the idea, breaking the norms, first in regards with gender, then in wider aspect of social norms.

As for the violence. When I was a student I was working in a NGO dealing with commemoration of Holocaust and in a former Nazi concentration camp turned into State Museum. Holocaust especially, but genocide in general, was something I worked on for a few years so reading about it, as bad as it may sound, doesn't shock me as much as it used to when I was confronted with it for a first time.

Don't know how to advise you. I did not find it particularly bumpy, although I certainly did not approve of all the choices made in this book. Personally, when I find passages distasteful, such as the genicide in Part 1, I like to push through it so I don't have it facing me day after day. But, if the bumpiness is a call to think about ideas that are new or challenging, then I tend to want to slow down.

Jimmy's story did not upset me, just surprise me. I found it a bit hard to believe and am not sure why the author included this really strange side story. Maybe it is just one more example of self-reinvention, of someone living in some in-between state, not really one identity nor the other, but something not quite named by society.

Andrea comments disappeared? I have the same strategy as Irene I push through. I'm not with the Jimmy's story yet however I feel for now like Eugenides is trying to address to many topics at once, and I don't feel really attached to the characters yet. Maybe it will all come together for me more as the story progresses.

Yeah, what happened to the comments?

I am not sure I ever felt connected to these characters. I thought that the narration style kept us at an arm's length.

Just starting... Hopefully can make it through before December ends!

I've read Books 1-2 and I'm enjying it. The scale is epic although I do not thing this book apart from being an entertaining pretty clever read (some references to mythology, historical aspect) is anything out of ordinary. I kind of feel like I read it all before. The fact that everything happens so quickly to cover such big chunk of time makes me not to care for the characters much. The only character that we are able to get to know is Calliope in this tiny paragraphs describing his/her life in Berlin. Probably it was done on purpose to contrast her/his inner, more personal life with outer, more historical life of other characters. Having said that, books are about emotions they evoke and this leaves me pretty much with no feelings at all. It's entertaining but I have to push myself to read it when I'm back from work, and I blame the fact that it falls flat in evoking any connection.

I suspect that I am more of a "head" person than a "heart" person. It is normal for a book to fail to evoke any emotional response from me. In fact, I do not look for that from a book. This one did cause a few moments of a type of disgust, in the scenes of genicide in part 1 and in the way our narrator is treated more as a medical curiosity than a confused adolescent by the doctors at the end of part 3. Other than that, I really did not have an emotional connection with these characters. But, the people and scenes were vivid, characters displayed multiple dimensions and growth, the weaving of humorous observations into serious situations were all terrific in my opinion.

Was excited to read this book ... but am struggling with it. Find the novel either fascinating (the story of Desdemona & Lefty) but there are lengthy sections where am bored with the too-detailed narrative. Am skimming through paragraphs. Don't feel a connection with the characters.

Yes I think the book doesn't need that much of description regarding social and economical background. We all went to schools and know more or less about that, and although I enjoyed those aspects at the beginning of the novel, when the action moves to USA I became bored with them since it was all something I already read about and in my opinion it overshadowed the main story line.

Getting into this book very slowly, unfortunately. I just finished Part 1 and I'm starting to enjoy it more. (I guess it's hard for me to enjoy any book when I can only read in few page snippets.) I haven't minded the Lefty + Desdemona relationship so much. There are actually a lot of funny lines in the description of L + D; there's a bit of tongue-in-cheek humor along with some genuinely touching emotions. I've also been enjoying some of the rendition of Ellis Island (wish there was more on that, actually) and Detroit in the 1920s. The bit describing the mechanization of the factory workers was not bad. A little forced, but kind of cool.
I don't think I've read all about the Jimmy story yet, so I'm not understanding all of the comments here yet.

I like many things about this book -- the sweep of history and the way real life events effect the plot, the idea that we are all living with the decisions of our parents and grandparents (even if we in America don't acknowledge that very often), the glimpses into Cal's lonliness and the way he holds himself apart from society (and even from us, his readers, choosing to make the entire first half of the story of his life be about other people!). But I thought it could also have used a stricter editor. It seems to go on a lot longer than it needs to. And like many others, I didn't understand what the subplot of Jimmy did to further the main story. I did wonder, though (view spoiler)[ if Jimmy advertised for a silk workder knowing Desdemona would answer -- and if so, why? I mean, it wasn't exactly a common skill in Detroit in the 30s... (hide spoiler)]

Good Point Michelle, I actually didn't understood the Jimmy part either.
The huge, sweeping through ages narration left me uninvented and although I was charmed by it at the beginning soon I felt like I'm seeing Eumenides in Berlin library summarizing the encyclopedia entries so they could be paste into the plot of Middlesex.

I've been a bit slow with this one. I struggled with the first 30 to 40 pages and then picked up another novel. But I've now recommitted and I'm into Book 2 and thoroughly enjoying it. I'm glad I persisted!

The comments in this group are really helpful for persisting, particularly when others have enjoyed it. I have also noticed though that comments from two members have vanished which makes the thread a bit tricky to follow.

As everyone has emphasised, Book 1 focuses strongly on the relationship between Lefty and Desdemona. I find it confronting and that seems a common response. I suspect that's largely due to cultural values and societal expectations around sexual relationships within families (which are often only considered in the context of abuse). I can see that the narrator doesn't condone the relationship - and keeps referencing back to the gene defect.

All of this got me thinking and I did some (superficial) internet research. It's such a taboo topic that there doesn't appear to be easily accessible information about it. I wondered if it's more common in smaller, remote communities? But I couldn't find much information. I did find the following article, which was interesting: http://www.livescience.com/2226-inces...

There are several themes in the book that might be confronting or challenging - genocide, incest, intersex. I'm with Irene, Kamil and those who feel that it's worth pushing through any discomfort to understand where the narrator is taking the story.

Like Ashley, I thought it seemed surprising that Lina was so quick to accept the relationship between Lefty and Des, particularly when Des was so fearful about other people's views. The narrator seemed to suggest that because Lina was same-sex attracted that she'd be more accepting. But I don't buy that. I think Irene is more on the money, and while it's not just a Greek thing, maybe it's that it can/does (?) happen in small communities and becomes less surprising...?

I'm looking forward to hearing more about Cal. I've started to get a sense of him, his loneliness and the challenges he faces. But so much more to go!

Janine, I am glad that you returned to the book and are now enjoying it. The narrator seems to argue that Lefty and Desdamona accept this incestual relationship because the village was depleted of available young people to marry. But, we see Lefty going into town weekly, hiring prostitutes, interacting with plenty of people. So, their village is not as isolated as this desparate act might imply. And, they don't formalize that sexual relationship until they are on the boat to America where they would reasonably presume plenty of available sexual partners. They are simply attracted to each other. This is a book populated by characters that inhabit an in-between space, particularly, but not exclusively, sexual middle ground.

Irene wrote: "Janine, I am glad that you returned to the book and are now enjoying it. The narrator seems to argue that Lefty and Desdamona accept this incestual relationship because the village was depleted o..."

I agree, Irene. Particularly as I get to the unfolding of the relationship between Tessie and Milton. Does seem about choice over no options. It was interesting, though, that Desdemona recalls her mother referring to the occasional birth defects in the village over the decades due to the consanguinity of the parents. (I hadn't known that word previously! No need to really). Maybe not all took the lengthy journey to Bursa to find a suitable partner?

I'm enjoying the way the book interweaves the personal stories with the broader history of the time - the rise of the car, the Prohibition era, the depression, WW2, etc . The odd re-emergence of Jimmy seemed to provide the space to bring in the history of slavery and some of the wacky and disturbing theories of the late 19th century that racism was based on (and that were influential for decades).

I agree with others that the Jimmy story was quite odd. MIchelle, your thoughts on how Desdemona ended up in that job seem on the money. But the elaborate story around his new life was strange.

Irene wrote: "This is a book populated by characters that inhabit an in-between space, particularly, but not exclusively, sexual middle ground. "

As I get closer to the end of Book 3, I've been thinking about these thoughts on the characters inhabiting an 'in-between space'. It's interesting and I'll probably elaborate further in the other discussion. I agree that it's not exclusively a sexual middle ground - it emerges in many other contexts.