SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

For any who are not familiar with this book, I put up the Barbary Hambly title, Those Who Hunt the Night because it is about a woman doctor in the Ninteenth Century who is coerced into solving a mystery brought to her by a vampire, who threatens her husband if she will not comply in solving the reason behind why vampires are dying by what appears to be murder.

This is NOT a romance! It was written long and long before the current "trend" for such fiction - and it is different and better drawn than all of them (in my opinion). The vampire villain (a fifteenth century Spanish Don) is NOT heroic, he is chilling, and his kind, terrifying....the reader does come to appreciate his point of view, but never loses sight of the danger he poses, and his threat to the woman doctor's family, should she fail in the mission he gives her.

Everyone I've recommended it to who read it has been impressed. I do repeat - it is NOT one whit like the current trend of the vampire/anti hero romance...

While one comes to respect the villain's motives, there is no question of his nature being predatory.

And the way the plot resolves is so stunningly original, the whole read is amazing. The angles Hambly pursues are unique and memorable.

That sounds quite intriguing, Janny. I'll second it...

Those Who Hunt the Night by Barbara Hambly

I read Those Who Hunt the Night back in the '80s when it first came out, and it is hard edged, not at all like the current trend in vampire literature. I would recommend it as well, so count me in.

Too bad I gave away my copy of Those Who Hunt the Night and I read it so long ago, I don't remember any of it. If it wins the poll, I'll have to hope the library has a copy. :)

Chris wrote: "I'll agree with Brooke that all the anti-heroes don't really fit this category. They're more their own category. I see Kvothe, Thomas Covenant, Jimmy the Hand, and Fafhrd & the Mouser as anti-heroe..."

I dont agree, which is probably related to definitions. So, how would you differentiate a protagonist as villain and anti-hero?

Just as Brooke did with her examples of Satan and the Wicked Witch. Readily established villains who get a shot at telling the story from their perspective. Most villains don't see themselves as such, unless they're slapstick adversaries on an old cartoon, like Snidely Whiplash or Boris & Natasha.

And to the orcs of Cirith Ungol, even hereos such as Frodo and Sam would be villains. Superman is a villain to Lex Luthor.

So what we need is a clear case of a universally accepted villain telling his/her story from his/her own perspective. Anti-heroes are simply too "gray" to be true "villains." Sure, we could focus on anti-heroes, and while I think that would be a great category theme all its own, I feel that it negates the whole point of studying a tale from a villain's perspective.

I vote for "Those Who Hunt the Night." Sounds like a fun read!

I second The Summer Tree by Guy Gavriel Kay.

Haven't gotten a chance to read too indepth since my last post, but I had to comment on the Summer Tree nod/second - who is the villain? The only one who comes to mind for me is the one trapped under the mountain, and the book is never from his POV.

Casey wrote: "An absolute must on my list would be The Wasp Factory, by Iain Banks. It tells the story of a boy-psychopath who lives on an island with his dad, seperated from England and in secret. This boy, Fra..."

Intriguing. I'll second it if Brooke is willing to class it as fantasy.

Chris wrote: "Sure, we could focus on anti-heroes, and while I think that would be a great category theme all its own, I feel that it negates the whole point of studying a tale from a villain's perspective."

What he said.

Both books I was set to nominate have already been so, and seconded :) So, I'll just have to second (again) "Grendel" and "Wicked". "Son of a Witch" (sequel to "Wicked") also comes to mind as being in this category.

Casey wrote: "An absolute must on my list would be The Wasp Factory, by Iain Banks. It tells the story of a boy-psychopath who lives on an island with his dad, seperated from England and in secret. This boy, Fra..."

Reading through the reviews and description here on GR, this is listed as 'contemporary fiction' and 'horror', but no one makes any allusions to it being fantasy (and the description doesn't make me think it's fantasy), so I would vote 'no' on classifying The Wasp Factory as fantasy.

Fawcetta is really good. It has everything in the book. I recommend this bookFawcetta Voices and Echoes of the Coliseum Volume Iby Dalian Artanian.

Brooke wrote: "Haven't gotten a chance to read too indepth since my last post, but I had to comment on the Summer Tree nod/second - who is the villain? The only one who comes to mind for me is the one trapped und..."

Must say, I dunno. I seconded it only because I want to read it. It can go, if necessary.

I read The Wasp Factory A Novel a few years ago. I definitely wouldn't class it as fantasy - it's plausibly set within our own world, there's nothing supernatural, magical etc. etc. I would consider it to be "contemporary fiction" with a dash of macabre horror! It is a good book though, so even if it doesn't make it in I would recommend reading it.

I've got on my TBR or would be happy to reread:

Wicked
Soon I Will Be Invincible
Those Who Hunt the Night
Confessions of an Ugly Stepsister
To Reign in Hell
Orcs

If any of these need seconds, please consider this that.

David wrote: "I just started Kay's The Summer Tree last night. Its kind of old, and probably already familiar to members of the group, but might be good to consider.The Summer Tree"

Haven't heard of this one, but it looks really good. I'll second it. :) (does it have villain narration?)

I will always see Lestat as a villian first. In Interview he was clearly viewed as a villian by the main characters acting without any compasion and completely selfishly in all things. He even viewed himself partly as such in The Vampire Lestat, it was really in the following books that he became the Anti-hero that he is widely viewed as today.

Would I Am Legend count as a villain's-perspective book? If so, I nominate it.

Jenn wrote: "Would I Am Legend count as a villain's-perspective book? If so, I nominate it."

Whether or not Neville is a villain is a somewhat philosophical question, but since I Am Legend is a science fiction novel and not fantasy, the question is moot.

The Summer Tree by Guy Gavriel Kay.

Making some rulings before I compile our current list -

Yes, Lestat can count as a villain
The Wasp Factory is not fantasy
I Am Legend is not fantasy
No on The Summer Tree because there are no villain POVs in it, although if anyone wants to explain why so many people have mentioned it, I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.

I second Wicked... never seen any the other books mentioned in this thread in the local bookstores.

Brooke wrote: "Making some rulings before I compile our current list -

Yes, Lestat can count as a villain
The Wasp Factory is not fantasy
I Am Legend is not fantasy
No on The Summer Tree because there are ..."


The only reason I can see why "The Summer Tree" keeps getting nominated is because of its similarity to the King Arthur cycle, which really is a case more of anti-hero rather than villain.

Okay, poll is up! I evaluated each book that had been seconded and removed one or two that were shelved primarily as SF instead of fantasy, and a few whose reviews leaned more towards anti-heroes than villains. We've got 10 books up for nomination, I think I'm rooting for Soon I Will Be Invincible after reading a positive review at Den Of Geek today.

I used the poll invite feature instead of the group broadcast, forgetting that the invite limits itself to 1000 people - the group has more than double that, if you can believe it! I'll send out another email tomorrow so I don't overload everyone's inboxes.

Hi everyone! I'm excited to read something with you all!

Well, The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis is IMHO a very good book, it is certainly from villain point of view (one of devils)... but I wouldn't consider it fantasy, unfortunately.

I nominate Rowan of the Wood by Christine and Ethan Rose.

The villain in this book, Fiana, is a magic-wielding vampiress who has been driven to insanity by the loss of her soul mate. She's sadistic, unreasonable, and incredibly dangerous.

She is also addictively appealing, sharp and ironic, and full of mystery that makes you want to hold on and learn more about her past.

Sorry Leigh, but when Brooke said the poll was up, that means that she's done taking nominations.

We're now voting on ten possible choices here:
http://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/23...

Wait, what? Am I missing something? Those Who Hunt The Night had 34 votes in the October poll but on the group's shelf the Fantasy book for next month is Best Served Cold which had the second most votes: 33 votes.

I don't understand either. What happened to Those Who Hunt the Night?

Yeah, really? what happened? I already checked out Those Who Hunt the Night to re-read but haven't ordered Best Served Cold yet.

I'm not sure who put the book on the shelf, perhaps they picked the wrong one? I hadn't checked the poll progress since Friday, but Those Who Hunt The Night was leading the last time I looked.

Hey, yes, what happened? Those Who Hunt the Night is still listed as having 34 votes, vs 33 for the Abercrombie title...

I'm going to go ahead and call Those Who Hunt The Night the winner, and see if I can figure out how the shelf thing works so I can swap it.

Good, the order of the universe is restored ;)
Now I can go ahead and try to get the book.

I started reading it at lunch. I quickly discovered that I had not previously read it two decades ago so I'm looking forward to reading it for real this time. :)