SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

N. K. Jemisin got profiled in the New Yorker: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...

I didn't think it was possible to be even more in awe with her than I was before, but it is.

I also feel the urge to re-read the Broken Earth trilogy.

I was a fan of her work — I’m still a fan of her work — but her recent pile-on joining a mob that was attacking a trans author has made me like her less. A *lot* less.

My comments from another thread:

This current trend of “Cancel Culture” and what I call the “Purity Police” is political correctness run amok. You can’t have a flawed protagonist without running the risk of suffering attacks from people, and the online mob mentality allows for swarming that can destroy lives.

It’s distressing when even people who should fucking well know better participate. Clarkesworld published a short story called “I Sexually Identify As An Attack Helicopter”, written by an apparently trans woman. Some people took it as an attack on trans people and went on a raging counterattack. Most of them didn’t read the story, they just went after the writer. One of those people was N.K. Jemisin.

N.K. Jemisin.

Un-fucking-real.

She even admitted on Twitter that she hadn’t read it, yet she piled on anyway. What the actual shit? A black woman who has written her share of “problematic” characters, who didn’t even bother to do the due diligence of actually reading the story? Mind-boggling.

The author asked Clarkesworld to take the story down because she was being attacked. Fortunately the Internet Archive preserves it: https://web.archive.org/web/202001012... Is it transphobic? I don’t know. I haven’t read it. Even so, I’m in no position to judge, being a straight man.

But I certainly wouldn’t make a judgement call or attack someone without first seeing what the fuss is about. Shame on you, Jemisin, for breaking out the torches and pitchforks just because other people are.

Well I just read it. It's long, and too smart & subtle for me, so I admit that I didn't read it super carefully. But I don't see how it could be taken as transphobic at all.

And besides it was told in 1st person, which I would argue makes it about this character's point of view and so if we have an issue with the queer aspect we talk about the character, not the story, certainly not the author.

But I have no idea about Jemison's, or anyone else's, reaction. All I can speak to is my own.

I only first read about the events surrounding "I Sexually Identify as an Attack Helicopter" two days ago.
I haven't read the story yet myself, but based on the title, I can see why people thought this was someone using a very widely-disseminated rightwing meme to attack trans people

Now, that doesn't mean I think it was ok that the author was subjected to harrassment or forced to out herself. Because it is not.

But I'm also not going to wholesale condemn Jemisin for saying she thinks taking the story down was the right decision. Which, imho, is a far cry from "a raging counterattack" or "going after the author". Especially since, in the screenshotted tweets I've seen, she was quite frank about having made mistakes in her writing and needing to do better herself. Not to mention that she made those comments after the story had been taken down, as far as I can tell.

Should she have stayed out of this as a cis woman? Maybe.
Should she have read the story before commenting? It would definitely have been better.
But, again, her comments are not "raging" (in my opinion), nor did she participate in the harrassment of the author that led to the story being pulled.(As far as I can tell.) So I find the implication that she did disingenious at best. And, sorry, but the way your post above is structured, Trike, first noting Jemisin commenting (in a way that frames it as if she had been attacking the author directly) and then mentioning that the story was pulled, does imply that that's the chain of events. Not the other way around.

I came here to say that if you haven't read Fifth Season, please be advised there are spoilers in the New Yorker piece.

I am surprised I have to say that it sure sounds like there is a Jemisin pile on going on in my own damn book club for something she didn't do and that is not in reference to the the New Yorker piece that is the topic of this conversation.

My tolerance level for this is very nearly depleted. I am angry to the point I think folks deserve an apology for this mischaracterization.

Mareike wrote: "N. K. Jemisin got profiled in the New Yorker: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...

I didn't think it was possible to be even more in awe with her than I was befor..."

Thanks for this! I'll have to take a look.

That was a very enlightening article, even if I already knew some things from the introduction to How Long 'til Black Future Month? and the interviews. I'm really happy that Jemisin gains more and more recognition. We need more strong women in SFF being heard.

And when it comes to the issue of that recent scandal, strong women as her will unfortunately always get hate for any slip up. It's a clear sign that we still have a long way to go. This whole issue was (and still is) very confusing, so it's easy make a mistake/wrong choice even with the best intentions at heart. No one is perfect and it's sad that some people are forced to be more perfect than others.

One way or another, I'm confident that in 100 years Jemisin will be mentioned as one of the legends within SFF.

Mareike wrote: "I only first read about the events surrounding "I Sexually Identify as an Attack Helicopter" two days ago.
I haven't read the story yet myself, but based on the title, I can see why people thought ..."

Necroposting here but I’ve just read this fascinating Vox article about this.

Edit: trying to get the link to work.
https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/225...

That's a great article. Thanks, Mareike.

Richard wrote: "Mareike wrote: "I only first read about the events surrounding "I Sexually Identify as an Attack Helicopter" two days ago.
I haven't read the story yet myself, but based on the title, I can see why..."

Thanks for sharing this, Richard. I saw it on Twitter yesterday and bookmarked it, but haven‘t gotten to reading it yet. This was a good reminder.

Statement on Isabel Fall

https://nkjemisin.com/2021/07/stateme...

The many issues discussed in the Vox article are outside my own personal experience but it has made me very much want to read “Attack Helicopter” and can only imagine that whether I actually like the story or not (personal opinion) I can only benefit from experiencing diverse viewpoints and take from them what I can.
Anyone know if or where the story can be found. Trike’s link is now to a removed archive.

Ryan wrote: "Statement on Isabel Fall

https://nkjemisin.com/2021/07/stateme..."

Thanks Ryan.
Once again very interesting. Makes me extremely grateful that I’m such a Luddite and don’t even have a Twitter account.

And gives me more reason to keep loving Jemisin’s stuff.

Wikipedia has an archive link for the story. Tor.com claims that there'san audio version on the Clarkesworld podcast, but I don't see it.

https://mobile.twitter.com/gwenckatz/...

There are her original comments. I remember when it posted, and people WERE having PTSD, in part because of that rage storm on all sides all over Twitter, well before Nora stepped in. So I'm inclined to read it with her intent, though I agree with her that it could have been done better (or just not done then) and that people who are hurt are hurt even if you don't mean to. It was far, FAR from anything like an attack and certainly not the match that lit the powder keg.

I also think it's pretty effing ironic to have a discussion on canceling Jemisin for things she didn't say in a discussion about how Jemisin canceled Fall for a story she didn't read.

Sorry, still salty about this.

ETA: Not salty at anyone here, just like, in general.

Ryan wrote: "Statement on Isabel Fall

https://nkjemisin.com/2021/07/stateme..."

Just came here to post this, too, after finally reading both the article in Vox and this statement.

@Allison: Full agreement.

@Richard: I’d have been interested in reading it, too, but it looks like the e-book mentioned in the article has sold out. At least according to this website: https://www.wyrmpublishing.com/

I believe Jemisin. I don't get why the person in the twitter link feels she was lying.

I kind of hope we can find some kind of equilibrium in the "cancel culture"/social media world soon. I'm absolutely for social justice and calling out harmful things/people, but we need to figure out how to do it better such that people can be human, apologize, learn, and be forgiven. I feel like in instances such as this so called social justice gets mixed up with gossip and outrage entertainment....and it isn't actually helping anyone or reducing any harm. It's just creating more harm.

I'm glad she's apologized for her part in it.

Great article that linked to an even better, very short article by Lee Mandelo:
https://leemandelo.com/f/that-twitter...

This article is especially great for book reviewers because it reflects on art critique in general, its underlying theories, and how to do it well. It brought up lots of good points that were new to me and I think it might improve my future reviews.

^^ I think once people realize this is a place where it's okay to have opinions as long as they're not lies or aiming to hurt anyone, the amount of unintentional offense created and desire to "drag" people/things also diminishes. So mostly it's thanks to y'all for extending grace to strangers!