Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion

In his book Let’s Get Digital author David Gaughran claims that many people will not buy e-books that have DRM. One reason he gives for this is that DRM prevents readers from moving their purchases from one type of device to another, for example from a Kindle to a Nook, and would require the reader to repurchase his or her entire library upon changing to a new type of device, or simply prevents moving books back and forth if one has multiple types of e-readers.

My thought is that if an e-book is available on all platforms, a reader can just buy it from the source that provides a copy compatible with his or her device, and that this would only be an issue with KDP Select authors, but that’s my limited perspective. I never look at DRM, but then, I’m a Nook owner who just doesn’t buy e-books from Amazon. (If an author can’t be bothered to sell e-books on B&N, then they couldn’t be bothered to sell me a book. I’ll buy and read something else.) The idea of converting an e-book from mobi to e-pub is too much hassle for me. According to Gaughran, though, people who want those Kindle-only e-books more than I do learn how to strip DRM. I know two people who do this. Others just get Kindle apps on their phones or even on their Nooks, making it a non-issue for them.

I’m going to review Gaughran’s book when I finish it. I’m up to page 41 and so far I find the information on traditional publishing—bookstore returns policies, remaindering and so forth, to be quite accurate, having worked in a brick and mortar bookstore. I’m not as knowledgeable about the buying habits of other readers.

There’s more to his argument against DRM, but my questions are specifically about his claim that it lowers book sales. He doesn’t give data to back it up, and although my inquiry here is hardly scientific either, at least it will give me some input.

Reader/buyer questions:

1. Do you look to see if an e-book has DRM enabled? Why?
2. Does it affect your purchasing decision?
2a. If so, under what circumstances?
3. Have you ever wanted to migrate your entire e-book library from an e-pub device (Kobo, Nook, etc.) to a Mobi device (Kindle) or vice versa?

Author sales question:

Have you ever taken DRM off your KDP e-books and seen sales go up measurably in a way you could attribute to this choice?

I have never looked to see if a book is DRM enabled, so it never affects my buying decisions. I have no idea if it has affected my sales. I will be interested in your book review.

As a reader - I have a kobo and used to buy all my books from Amazon, simply because all books are not available across all platforms. When I pay my money for a book why should an author dictate that I have to read it on my PC, not on the device of my choosing?

If they had DRM it took me less than a minute to strip it off and load to my kobo. The software I used for managing my kobo did it all for me.

Thanks for answering. Anyone else?

A.W. wrote: "As a reader - I have a kobo and used to buy all my books from Amazon, simply because all books are not available across all platforms. When I pay my money for a book why should an author dictate th..."

Less than a minute? Wow. I wonder if authors going into KDP Select--and Amazon-- expect this, or if they expect DRM to work. If people strip DRM from Kindle-only books as a common practice, Amazon still gets all the sales, and the author gets to run special KDP Select promos, and people with other devices aren't blocked from buying--or required to read in that annoying Kindle Cloud reader.
I plan to keep publishing on Kobo, B&N, Apple, ScribD and Inktera as well as Amazon so readers won't have to jump through even that little hoop, but other authors may see it differently.

Just to answer your author sales question, I'm pretty sure that when selecting to enable/disable DRM in KDP, it warned that you couldn't change this once published.

Yes, I just checked and it does say that once published with your chosen setting, it cannot be changed.

Amber wrote: "Less than a minute? Wow."

Yip, open Calibre, select mobi file, click on convert, select epub and its done. Simple.

I see so many authors obsessing about DRM, pirate sites and issuing take down notices etc but at the end of the day the real issue is obscurity, not someone sharing your file.

To answer the question, no, I never check (but I should). I fear that if my iPad would ever break, all the books with DMR I purchased from Amazon would be lost. Unlike when I buy books from iTunes, Amazon doesn't save them on my computer. :/

This is all informative. Gaughran's book says that a low price and wide availability are the best proofs against piracy, not DRM. He says something similar to A.W.'s comment.

G.G.--isn't there some kind of cloud storage where all your Kindle books live, other than your device? I can archive a Nook book with the option to "remove local copy" but it doesn't mean I couldn't get it back--at least, that's what I take "local" copy to mean. That I still own a copy, but don't have it taking up digital space.

Yes, Amber, it does. However, one can not convert to another format with Calibre as A. W. stared.

G.G. wrote: "Yes, Amber, it does. However, one can not convert to another format with Calibre as A. W. stared."

You can convert epub to mobi using Calibre. I have done it many times.

@Shomeret I know that! What I'm saying is that you can't convert Amazon's purchase, because you don't actually have a file on your computer. And last I tried, Calibre could not see my iPad.

@Amber What I really mean is that if there is a DMR, the book can only be downloaded on ONE device. What if that device breaks before you read the book?

Amber wrote: "This is all informative. Gaughran's book says that a low price and wide availability are the best proofs against piracy, not DRM. He says something similar to A.W.'s comment.

G.G.--isn't there so..."

With Nook, if you archive your book you have the option to download it. Then you can get them on your computer, but I think Nook doesn't use DMR just like iTunes and Smashwords.

G.G. wrote: "However, one can not convert to another format with Calibre as A. W. stared."

Umm.. yes you can. In fact Calibre gives you a number of different output types. If I buy from Amazon I convert the mobi to epub to load onto my nook, or occasionally, if I have an epub file, I convert it to mobi to read in the Kindle app.

So... getting back on my topic, my research for reviewing Gaughran's book ...
1. Digital Rights Management (DRM) seems to be something only Amazon does, and they make it optional for indie authors to enable it or not.
2. My question was--does it affect buying habits, as Gaughran claims?
3. So far no one has said it does. But I'd like to hear from more people. Does anyone actually look for it and decide against a book because of it? So far I have two "never looks" and two people who easily defeat it.

I don't check before I buy a book. I did select DRM when I published my first novel because when I read the explanation for it, it seemed like a good idea. Now I wouldn't, but you can't reverse it once selected. Since the book is no longer exclusive to Amazon, it no longer applies except on Amazon purchases, but I've seen no difference in sales, and I've sold far more on Amazon than anywhere else. I have two short-story collections that are not locked into DRM, and to date I've sold more novels than collections. From what I've read about DRM, I intend for my next novel to be DRM free. But I'm not sure it matters.

Thanks Ken. Both a reader's and an author's perspective.

Amber does it show up on a book's Amazon page? I've never even looked because as I said, I simply use Calibre to manage my device anyway. Does it say somewhere that a file has DRM? I'm just curious now :)

I have no idea. I don't have a Kindle. I have a Nook and buy all my e-books form B&N.

You raise an interesting question Amber. I only offer my stories via Amazon because I never have sales on other platforms. But anymore you can simply add the Kindle Application to almost any device now, free. And if you lose a device, you simply have to download your Kindle App and use your same user login. All of your previous purchases for Kindle will download. Same if you purchase a new device.

I have Kindle on a pc, laptop, desktop, mobile phone and tablet.

Also, I have a kobo app and Nook app, so you can have multiple reader platforms on your devices.

My biggest book fear nowadays is Amazon suddenly going belly up, and all my ebooks being suddenly worthless if my kindle dies.

That is a terrible fear!

I've bought everything from blankets to books to lawn mowers from Amazon. I doubt that they'll die anytime soon, so I wouldn't worry.

Ken wrote: "I've bought everything from blankets to books to lawn mowers from Amazon. I doubt that they'll die anytime soon, so I wouldn't worry."

Look at all the corporate juggernauts that have disappeared in the last decade or so. Never say never. No business is bullet proof.

Paganalexandria **wicked juices bubbling over** wrote: "
Look at all the corporate juggernauts that have disappeared in the last decade or so..."

Many of them driven out by Amazon, no doubt. I'm still not worried.

As Bradley stated, the Kindle e-books are tied to an Amazon account, not a device. It is fairly simple to log on and move it from one Kindle enabled device to another. That's why I didn't worry about using the DRM on my novels. And, as also stated, if someone really wanted to, it is very easy to bypass the DRM and convert the file to a different format. So, for those that avoid DRM Kindle e-books, you are doing so for no good reason. I've had nothing but good experiences with my Kindle. I've held off on releasing my books on the Nook because I haven't been sure B&N would be able to last. They do seem to be holding their own, so I'll probably be looking into them shortly. As long as I can publish my books and keep my prices at $2.99 while making a little profit from it, I'll be happy to do so on the Nook. First and foremost, though, I want the people who purchase my books to be able to enjoy them for years to come, and to be able to move them to and from whatever devices they use. I never would have published via Kindle if people couldn't do that.

Ken wrote: "Paganalexandria **wicked juices bubbling over** wrote: "
Look at all the corporate juggernauts that have disappeared in the last decade or so..."

Many of them driven out by Amazon, no doubt. I'm ..."

I'm not saying everyone should take my crazy on. I am also one of the idiots who bought a Zune (Microsoft's mp3 player) instead of an Ipod, which is no longer supported. That experience, plus my dad's death, all his awesome old records, and discovering the epiphany of how "nothing" digital collections are in general. I have thousands of dollars worth of music no one can do anything with after my death. It's wasted money for real, IMO. I also have tons of cd's, 12", and real albums (in an old life needed a lot of music constantly). Though I love ebooks, it's kind of the same thing. I am not trying to get others to ditch Amazon, Kobo, or All Romance, but it's something most of us don't think about. Unlike your physical book collection that other book lovers in your social circle can benefit from, in contrast your ebooks and digital music become worthless. There have also been other ebook retailers that went bust, and there customers never recouped those books. It is just an idea to think about. Yes it's not likely that Amazon is going bust, but several of us who read the spicier content have found out when "bad writers" get pulled so do the books readers purchased without warning, or refund. Like I said I sometimes fear my Kindle content being useless or worthless, it's not just "crazy talk".

Simultaneous Device Usage: Unlimited

This is how they regulate their books. Does that mean if it is not unlimited you have to remove physically the book from one device before you can add it to another or it's once it's there, you can't add it to another.

Now, if it's the first, there's still the risk that your device breaks. If so, you can't remove it from there so do you lose that book?

My opinion: I don't think B&N is going away, nor is Kobo, or the iTunes bookstore. There are readers who really do prefer these devices. I'm not worried about my Nook books ceasing to exist. I just wish more indie authors would publish to B&N. I am not going to bother to strip DRM and convert to e-pub. Too much work. (I want the author to do the work, not the reader.) I suspect the main effect of Kindle-only sales isn't related to DRM at all. Sales are lost to the invisible people like me who just don't buy Kindle books.

My next question: People who strip DRM-- Do you get an e-pub file that you could e-mail to your friends? Gaughran says that the mobi-exclusive file with DRM is basically making readers learn how to be pirates.

Amber wrote: "I'm not worried about my Nook books ceasing to exist. I just wish more indie authors would publish to B&N..."

The best way in my opinion for an author to publish on all of those platforms is to upload the book to Smashwords. They distribute to B&N, Kobo, iTunes, and a lot of others, including Amazon. I do Amazon directly, and let Smashwords handle the rest. Then, on my website, I put links to my books on every outlet, including paperback sellers.

Draft2Digital provides a service very similar to Smashwords that includes CreateSpace, but not Kindle.(Amazon's decision.)
I am very happy with D2D customer service. Smashwords users also seem happy.

I'd encourage indies to use either Draft2Digital or Smashwords, and not limit themselves to Amazon.

But back to my topic ... Or maybe it's run out... because DRM is basically irrelevant to anything? Is that the conclusion?

Amber wrote: "People who strip DRM-- Do you get an e-pub file that you could e-mail to your friends?"

You can email mobi files as well. The only books I email out are my own (giveaways, ARCs etc) and probably 90% of people ask me for a mobi file, very few want an epub.

My two cents worth - price is a far bigger determinant of whether a book will be pirated not DRM. Here's an example, there's a very popular big publisher book I thought I would buy for my son for Xmas. The kindle book is $9.99. I saw a blog post advertising that it's currently on sale for $2.99 so I thought I would grab it. But here's the kicker, the sale is US only. Outside the US it's nearly ten bucks. The hardcover edition is $11 and the paperback is $7. Yes, you read that right, the paperback is $2 cheaper than the kindle book.

So here are my choices, pay $9.99 for a kindle book that the publisher will sell for $2.99 to those in the US but not the rest of the world. Pay $7 for a paperback that Amazon will then charge me $10 postage (so a total of $17) or I could download a pirate version of the book, but as an author I don't agree with that. So I chose a different option - I bought my son a couple of different kindle books that were each under $4.

A.W. wrote: "Amber wrote: "So here are my choices, pay $9.99 for a kindle book that the publisher will sell for $2.99 to those in the US but not the rest of the world. Pay $7 for a paperback that Amazon will then charge me $10 postage (so a total of $17) or I could download a pirate version of the book, but as an author I don't agree with that. So I chose a different option - I bought my son a couple of different kindle books that were each under $4. "

Or the fifth option, go to a used book store, and find it cheap and legal.

I think my question got lost in this. I know e-pubs and mobis can be e-mailed; I send them to reviewers myself. I'm asking about the file you get after you do this thing I've never done and will never bother to do--strip DRM. When you strip DRM and create your own e-pub OR mobi file from an e-book, do you then get something you could e-mail to your friends? And I'm not asking if you do that, only if it is possible.
Sheesh. I'm a writer and I can't seem to make myself clear. :)

Amber wrote: "When you strip DRM and create your own e-pub OR mobi file from an e-book, do you then get something you could e-mail to your friends? "

To answer your question - yes, you have the files and can email them to whoever you wanted. But that's exactly the same if I buy from Amazon or B&N, those files are sitting on my device or I can download to my laptop. From there all I have to do is point to them and upload to an email. DRM/conversion makes no difference. As soon as you purchase an e-book from whatever source, you have a file that can then be emailed or uploaded to another site.

1. Do you look to see if an e-book has DRM enabled? Why?

I tend to know who slaps DRM on books and who doesn't. I generally try to buy from where there's none on it. I store my ebook files in my own cloud for added data safety and I want to own those suckers. Impossible with DRM on a book.

2. Does it affect your purchasing decision?

It can.

2a. If so, under what circumstances?

In general I prefer buying books instead of ebooks, and will order hard copies instead of digital whenever the price is equal or lower.

3. Have you ever wanted to migrate your entire e-book library from an e-pub device (Kobo, Nook, etc.) to a Mobi device (Kindle) or vice versa?

I just had to migrate everything from one computer to the next. Major undertaking.

All very interesting. I wouldn't have any idea how to share anything I'd downloaded to my Nook--nor would I want to deprive the author of a sale by doing so--but it seems it's possible. (No plans to learn how.)

Finally heard from someone who does care about and notice DRM.

A.W. wrote: "To answer your question - yes, you have the files and can email them to whoever you wanted. But that's exactly the same if I buy from Amazon or B&N, those files are sitting on my device or I can download to my laptop. From there all I have to do is point to them and upload to an email. DRM/conversion makes no difference. As soon as you purchase an e-book from whatever source, you have a file that can then be emailed or uploaded to another site."

I agree that conversion isn't important, but if your intent were to "share" the file with someone else by email or upload, you would have to remove the DRM. The file is locked to a device (Amazon) or credit card number (B&N).

Amber wrote: "Gaughran says that the mobi-exclusive file with DRM is basically making readers learn how to be pirates."

There is some truth to this. People removing DRM for backup or to read books on another device that they own are using the same tools that would be needed to remove DRM to pirate a book. The difference is in how they use the file afterwards.

G.G. wrote: "Simultaneous Device Usage: Unlimited

This is how they regulate their books. Does that mean if it is not unlimited you have to remove physically the book from one device before you can add it to another or it's once it's there, you can't add it to another.

Now, if it's the first, there's still the risk that your device breaks. If so, you can't remove it from there so do you lose that book?"

Most books can be used on several devices on the same account simultaneously. I often read a book on more than one device. That's one of the things I like about Kindle books. The last read location is synced, so switching devices is seamless.

I believe the publisher/author sets the limit, so the number of devices allowed may vary. I've never hit it myself. If you did, you could remove the book from some of the devices and then download it from the cloud to the one you want to use. If the device is lost/broken, you can deregister it from your account on the Amazon page (or call and they can reset the limit for you).

It is true that you can't download the book file for an iPhone/iPad or extract it from the device the way you can for other Kindles, but you don't need to worry that you will lose your books if your iPad breaks. You can get them back from the cloud.

(That said, I'm with Paganalexandria. Other ebook companies have disappeared in the past. There have even been Amazon customers who have had their accounts closed and been unable to access the cloud. If your ebook collection is important to you, it's not a bad idea to have your own backup, paranoid as it may seem).