Classics and the Western Canon discussion

It may be April 1, but this is no April Fool’s joke. We’re actually going to tackle TSTF, beginning with the quagmire that is Benjy’s mind.

I don’t want to summarize this section or give too much away because the beauty of this novel lies in piecing together all the clues that appear intermittently throughout each section. But I do want to give those of you who are unfamiliar with it some clues to help you decipher what is happening.

Some things to know/look for as you read:

He was originally named Maury after his uncle on his mother’s side. He was re-named Benjy when his disability was discovered. He is the youngest of the four Compson children. His brothers are Quentin and Jason; his sister, Caddy (Candace); and his niece is Quentin, Caddy’s illegitimate daughter. That’s why Quentin is sometimes referred to as “he” and other times as “she.”

Benjy’s section spans about 30 years. The novel opens on his birthday. He is thirty-three years old and suffers from a severe mental disability which, in addition to his other problems, has rendered him speechless. He expresses his feelings by howling, moaning, and whimpering. His heightened sense of smell comes up repeatedly and generates a swift and strong reaction when he senses something is out of sync.

Benjy’s first-person narrative initially appears as a chaotic, disorienting mess. By inhabiting his point of view, we are forced to adopt his perspective even while we struggle to understand it. Benjy has no control over what springs to his mind. He only knows to react. His severe mental disability does not allow him to distinguish between past and present, so he relives past events as if they are happening in the now. They impact him with the same intensity and vividness as when they first occurred. Time will never heal his anguish.

Because Benjy is completely out of sync with time, you can’t rely on him to tell you what happened or when it happened. Traditional markers for time simply won’t work here, so you have to rely on alternative markers to understand this section. Some clues to look for: certain stimuli, like a sight, sound, or smell, will trigger past events; shifts in time are indicated by the use of italics; and different caregivers are responsible for Benjy as he ages.

It might also help to know Dilsey and her family since they appear throughout the four sections. Dilsey is the cook/housekeeper for the Compson household. She is married to Roskus and they have three children: Versh (male), Frony (female), and T.P(male). Frony is married and the mother of Luster. Luster is a teenager when the novel opens, and he is charged with taking care of Benjy. Versh, T.P. and Luster are Benjy’s caregivers in that order.

Finally, the Benjy section and two other sections are set in fictional Yoknapatawpha County, Mississippi. The Quentin section is set in Boston.

I have included a few examples as spoilers of the way Benjy’s mind works in case any of you would like some additional pointers.
(view spoiler)[ Benjy continues to wait at the gate for Caddy to come home from school even though Caddy has not been home for many years.
The sight of Quentin (his niece) embracing a man on the swing triggers an image he saw years before of Caddy embracing a man on the swing.
The pasture near his home was sold to a golf course. Every time he approaches it and hears the word caddie, he is reminded of his sister and bawls.
All these stimuli trigger strong reactions. (hide spoiler)]

Thanks Tamara, I read the first part with a group but couldn’t continue because of health problems. This description is really enlightening and I hope to finish this book with this group. I like Stream of Consciousness technique . Still Ulysses remains a challenge for me, finishing this book will motivate me to try to finish that also.

Nidhi wrote: "Thanks Tamara, I read the first part with a group but couldn’t continue because of health problems. This description is really enlightening and I hope to finish this book with this group. I like St..."

Glad you're joining us, Nidhi. It's a challenging book, but the discussion should be a lot of fun. I hope all is well on the health front.

Benjy provides valuable clues about key events in the Compson household even though his timeline is scrambled. He also reveals the personality traits and mannerisms of his family members, each of whom is brought into sharper focus as the novel progresses. What is your impression of Benjy’s siblings? What are they like? And what about Quentin, his niece? Is she anything like her mother?

Benjy seems much attached to Caddy and Quentine seems free spirited, carefree, bold girl not at all like her mother. I still have to figure out their respective ages. May be I will re read the book once I finish.

Tamara wrote: ".nd his niece is Quentin, Caddy’s illegitimate daughter. That’s why Quentin is sometimes referred to as “he” and other times as “she.”"

Was Faulkner intentionally trying to make this as confusing as possible? Benjy's narrative seems in part an attempt at verisimilitude -- naturally it will seem confused becauses he can't use language in a standard way -- but why give these different characters the same name? It seems more than an attempt to show us Benjy's perspective, it also seems to be a narrative technique that hinges on disorienting the reader.

Thanks for the hints, Tamara. Half way through this I was hoping someone would give me a jimson weed.

I have decided to start the book from the beginning so I can follow discussions properly and understand better.

Thomas wrote: " but why give these different characters the same name? It seems more than an attempt to show us Benjy's perspective, it also seems to be a narrative technique that hinges on disorienting the reader..."

It could be a bit of both.

I have no idea what Faulkner's intention was in giving two characters the same name. But since we are stuck in Benjy's mind, I suspect Faulkner intentionally disoriented the reader to reflect the confusion in Benjy's mind.

I've also thought that Caddy named her daughter Quentin because of the special relationship she had with her bother. She probably carries a lot of guilt because of what he does to himself--as we'll find out later.

Nidhi wrote: "I have decided to start the book from the beginning so I can follow discussions properly and understand better."

Great!

Thomas wrote: "Thanks for the hints, Tamara. Half way through this I was hoping someone would give me a jimson weed..."

Benjy certainly likes holding his jimson weed. He frequently says, “Caddy smelled like trees” or “Caddy smelled like leaves.” He is almost transfixed by watching the fire in the fireplace. These are all elements found in nature. Does this tell us something about Benjy?

The only question I remember from my undergraduate comprehensives was "What is the significance of dirty drawers in TSATF? I hope after all these years you all will help me find a satisfactory answer. Don't yet know what section might provide the answer.

Thomas wrote: "Tamara wrote: ".nd his niece is Quentin, Caddy’s illegitimate daughter. That’s why Quentin is sometimes referred to as “he” and other times as “she.”"

Was Faulkner intentionally trying to make thi..."

I definitely think disorientation was an intention for the Benjy section as a whole. Caddy loved her brother, so it makes sense for her to name her daughter after him (it’ll make even more sense after reading the next section), but I also think the two characters named Quentin are- in part- meant to contrast each other.

Boy Quentin shows a little of the sensitivity Faulkner develops further in the next section of the novel. His namesake, Caddy’s daughter Quentin, is by contrast brash, unkind to Benjy and openly disdainful of her uncle Jason and grandmother.

TASFT could be subtitled “The Decline and Fall of the Compson Household.” As 33-year-old Benjy’s walked around the grounds in 1928, things happening trigger scattershot memories throughout the entire 30-year, 3-generation decline. However, this method is only used for the first section.

I think the most important thing to take away from a first reading of the Benjy section is the few repeated images (or phrases) and what they say about the characters related to them. They are further developed throughout the novel.

Suzann wrote: "The only question I remember from my undergraduate comprehensives was "What is the significance of dirty drawers in TSATF? I hope after all these years you all will help me find a satisfactory answ..."

It’s a good image to hold onto relating to Caddy and while I don’t want to give any spoilers, I can definitely answer that for you by the time we’re done.

I am glad you explained about Quentin the brother and Quentin the daughter here. I was thinking the pronoun changes were due to Benjy possibly being confused by the practice of dressing male babies in dresses until they were "breeched" at a certain age, as we read in Tristram Shandy.

Suzann wrote: "The only question I remember from my undergraduate comprehensives was "What is the significance of dirty drawers in TSATF? I hope after all these years you all will help me find a satisfactory answ..."

A great question, and, as Aiden said, it's a good image to hold on to relating to Caddy.

Caddy’s muddy drawers show up in the Benjy section. Her drawers are muddy because she and Quentin have been throwing water at each other. Damuddy, the children’s grandmother has died, and people have gathered for her funeral. Caddy insists it’s a party. She climbs up the tree to take a look through the window.

"Push me up, Versh." Caddy said. "All right." Versh said. "You the one going to get whipped. I aint." He went and pushed Caddy up into the tree to the first limb. We watched the muddy bottom of her drawers. Then we couldn't see her. We could hear the tree thrashing.
"Mr Jason said if you break that tree he whip you." Versh said.
"I'm going to tell on her too." Jason said.
The tree quit thrashing. We looked up into the still branches.

I think the significance of the “muddy drawers” will become clearer when we get to the Quentin section. So hold that thought.

Caddy asks Benjy lots of questions (without question marks) and without expecting answers. She seems to be the substitute mother. The adults talk about Benjy as if he's not there and their main goal seems to be to relieve Caroline of the burden of responsibility for this youngest child, although she doesn't take much care of any of the children so far.

I'm stuck on the mother/mammy model of motherhood a bit. Dilsey, as the functional mother and her own mother as dysfunctional must be confusing to daughter in a segregated society. In the end, can she choose the mammy model and continue to live out the motherly instinct she demonstrates with Benjy?

Suzann wrote: "Caddy asks Benjy lots of questions (without question marks) and without expecting answers. She seems to be the substitute mother. The adults talk about Benjy as if he's not there and their main goa..."

Perhaps Caddy asks him questions without expecting answers as a way of involving him in the conversation.

Caddy is very nurturing toward Benjy and fiercely defensive of him. She seems to understand him better than any of her siblings. In many ways, she is his substitute mother. I think we also see some examples of Caddy "mothering" her own mother:

"Hush, Mother," Caddy said. "You go upstairs and lay down, so you can be sick. I'll go get Dilsey."

Caroline is pretty abysmal as a parent. Even in this section, she comes across as very self-absorbed and whining. She seems to think everything that happens is a punishment on her. She even tries to curb Caddy's nurturing tendencies toward Benjy:

"You humour him too much," Mother said. "You and your father both. You don't realise that I am the one who has to pay for it. Damuddy spoiled Jason that way and it took him two years to outgrow it, and I am not strong enough to go through the same thing with Benjamin."

"You don't need to bother with him," Caddy said. "I like to take care of him. Don't I, Benjy."

So, one question I had after reading this section was whether or not Caroline is really sick? I got the impression that she wasn't really, but perhaps using it as an excuse to hide from the responsibility of parenting.

A. wrote: "So, one question I had after reading this section was whether or not Caroline is really sick? I got the impression that she wasn't really, but perhaps using it as an excuse to hide from the respons..."

I agree with you. I don't think she's really sick--at least, I don't see any evidence of a physical illness.

A. wrote: "So, one question I had after reading this section was whether or not Caroline is really sick? I got the impression that she wasn't really, but perhaps using it as an excuse to hide from the respons..."

I get the impression that she is probably mentally ill, but not physically. In 1929, though, mental illness wasn’t viewed with the sympathy that it is today. Critical essays tend to refer to Caroline as having “neuroses.” So I think she is sick, but Faulkner and his contemporaries would have seen her as a whining malingerer much like her alcoholic brother. I see her as an extreme example of southern plantation mothers, who all had slaves “mammy’s” actually raising their children.

Dilsey definitely takes on the primary mothering role to all the children, except maybe Jason. Caddy acts as a surrogate mother to Benjy, who is her younger brother by 4 years.

I found the stream of consciousness and time traveling flowed rather nicely and help show how the human thought process works (at least from my understanding).

I feel that by having Benjy being highly reactive to the sense of smell was a great way to demonstrate that his thought processes can be different than those of the readers.

Susanna wrote: "I'm glad Tamara explained that there are two Quentins. I was thinking that Quentin was gay or even trans."

That certainly would have put a different spin on things :)

The present day scene of Benjy and Luster at the golf course fence looking for the lost quarter seems to be a ironic juxtaposition. The successful leisure class is whacking a ball around a manicured lawn while the slow and servant class look for a quarter in the weeds, but both engaged in rather futile/meaningless activities. The veneer of class and civilization, Southern society, doesn't appear substantively superior to the natural and sense-driven innocents of the Compson clan to my mind.

Thomas wrote: "Was Faulkner intentionally trying to make this as confusing as possible?..."

I do wonder about this, if he was trying to create a challenge or a puzzle for readers. Not only do we have Quentin the brother and Quentin the niece, but also Jason the father and Jason the son. And any number of servants that take care of Benjy, so it's hard to keep track.

I've read the first section twice now, and on the second reading I'm starting to get a better sense of the flow, the temporal jumps, and of some of the things that are happening (or of the images / smells that are repeated). I still have so many questions though ... it opens up so many riddles and puzzles ...

It is extremely challenging but fascinating, beautiful. I'm so glad I am able to read this with the group. I tried reading it many years ago and was defeated after twenty pages or so.

Cphe wrote: "She is definitely disengaged but I didn't see it as stemming from a mental illness......was thinking perhaps alcohol. ."

I get the sense that she is a neurotic and a hypochondriac, so she might have some level of mental illness (depression?) but nothing physically incapacitating

Caddy climbs trees and Benjy notes she often smells like trees. Is she climbing up trees, or is she climbing down trees? She does not seem to be hiding in trees, so what is she searching for? Is she climbing tees searching for the truth of family matters by spying through second story windows, or is she climbing down seeking attention or escaping from a mother suffering from some sort of malaise whom she has mostly replaced, functionally, or both?

I am afraid to guess why she might smell like leaves, which is what Benjy first relays what she smells like. As we learned in Tristram Shandy, ‘To give a green-gown’ is to ‘tumble a woman on the grass’. I suppose leaves could signify a tumble of another color, or in Benjy's case, odor, which would fit with escaping and attention seeking.

With Benjy we seem to bet getting a story from the perspective of sensory perception in lieu of exact or reliable words. I suppose we will have to carry all of these sensations forward and apply them somehow to words and dialog later on from other perspectives to get a more complete picture.

Don't know if any of Faulkner's women have much agency. Seems like a man's world. Women are pure or fallen.

David wrote: "I am afraid to guess why she might smell like leaves, which is what Benjy first relays what she smells like...."

Benjy likes natural smells. So when he says, "Caddy smelled like trees," it's his way of saying all is well with the world. If you recall the scene where Caddy climbs the tree to see what's happening in the house, Benjy starts bawling because he smells his grandmother's death. Dilsey realizes he smells it.

The smell of something unnatural or out of sync freaks him out. An example is when he cries and Caddy can't figure out why. But then she figures out it's the perfume, so she gives it away to Dilsey to calm him down:

"Why, Benjy. What is it." she said. "You mustn't cry. Caddy's not going away. See here." she said.
She took up the bottle and took the stopper out and held it to my nose. "Sweet. Smell. Good."
I went away and I didn't hush, and she held the bottle in her hand, looking at me.
"Oh." she said. She put the bottle down and came and put her arms around me.
"So that was it. And you were trying to tell Caddy and you couldn't tell her. You wanted to, but you couldn't, could you. Of course Caddy won't. Of course Caddy won't. Just wait till I dress."
Caddy dressed and took up the bottle again and we went down to the kitchen.
"Dilsey." Caddy said. "Benjy's got a present for you."

Caddy constantly "reads" Benjy. She knows what sets him off and how to calm him down. She is so loving and nurturing toward him.

Benjy seems to always be in the now. Even when he is thinking of things that happened in the past, he experiences the events again as if they happening to him at that moment in time. I do not recall him ever thinking of things that might be or could have been, it is like the only time in which he exists is now.

Mike wrote: "Benjy seems to always be in the now. Even when he is thinking of things that happened in the past, he experiences the events again as if they happening to him at that moment in time. I do not recal..."

I think that's what makes it so sad. Time will never heal for Benjy. He doesn't have that luxury. A situation that caused him pain in the past is experienced with the same intensity as when it first occurred even if it first occurred decades ago.

In a sense, Benjy doesn't even have memories if we define a memory as a recollection of something that happened in the past. For Benjy, there is no past. There is only the now.

Ignacio wrote: "Thomas wrote: "Was Faulkner intentionally trying to make this as confusing as possible?..."

I do wonder about this, if he was trying to create a challenge or a puzzle for readers. Not only do we h..."

I think the disorientation is intentional but Faulkner was cognizant of how confusing the first section could be. By way of context, he reportedly requested of his publisher that the different time periods in the first section be printed in different color inks. The publisher refused, but Faulkner added a brief Compson family history as an appendix to the book after the first edition because he felt it was necessary to fully understanding the novel.

An interest in puzzles could prove useful. Critics have found allusions through imagery, character traits and the Easter setting relating TSATF to themes from the Christian Old and New Testaments, Greek mythology and Shakespeare among other sources. Thinking of Faulkner as a puzzle master seems almost appropriate when you see how it all comes together.

Tamara wrote: "David wrote: "I am afraid to guess why she might smell like leaves, which is what Benjy first relays what she smells like...."

Benjy likes natural smells. So when he says, "Caddy smelled like tree..."

Great points, Tamara. It would also pay notice of the things happening when Caddy smells like trees, but also, when she does not smell like trees; something mentioned at least once explicitly. A pertinent question may be what does she smell like when she doesn’t and why it upsets Benjy.

There are several points in the Benjy section when Caddy doesn't smell like trees. Here's one example:

But my throat kept on making a sound while T.P. was pulling me. It kept making it and I couldn’t tell if I was crying or not, and T.P. fell down on top of me, laughing, and it kept on making the sound and Quentin kicked T.P. and Caddy put her arms around me, and her shining veil, and I couldn’t smell trees any more and I began to cry.

Any ideas as to what's going on here?

Tamara wrote: "There are several points in the Benjy section when Caddy doesn't smell like trees. Here's one example:

But my throat kept on making a sound while T.P. was pulling me. It kept making it and I coul..."

I’m letting the “smells like trees” question sit with the rest of the group, but wanted to mention something about this scene that I didn’t catch until commentary pointed it out: in the memories with Benjy, T.P. and the “sassprullah,” T.P. only thinks that the bottles are soda water. It is actually champagne. Some of Benjy’s disjointed thoughts in this section are due to him being unknowingly drunk.

Aiden wrote: "Some of Benjy’s disjointed thoughts in this section are due to him being unknowingly drunk.."

TP gets Benjy drunk. That's why Quentin gives him a good kick. TP is falling all over the place, laughing. And poor Benjy can't figure out if he's crying until Caddy puts her arms around him. When he can't smell trees any more, he cries.

Does Caddy's "shining veil" suggest her wedding? If so, would Benjy understand that she would be leaving him and the family?

Hmm, a veil, a wedding, drinking, a little kicking or fighting perhaps? It makes sense. I don't yet comprehend the sound coming from Benjy's throat that he can't tell if it was crying or not. Was he laughing or just making unusual sounds from being drunk?

Suzann wrote: "Does Caddy's "shining veil" suggest her wedding? If so, would Benjy understand that she would be leaving him and the family?"

Yes, it's Caddy's wedding day.
Benjy is crying because he senses she is leaving him, but he also "senses" something else about her.
I don't mean to sound so mysterious, but I don't want to give too much away as we'll learn more about Caddy in the Quentin section.

David wrote: "Was he laughing or just making unusual sounds from being drunk?.."

I don't think he was crying because he recognizes it when he cries. I'm guessing he was just making a lot of unusual or unfamiliar sounds from being drunk.

Suzann wrote: "Does Caddy's "shining veil" suggest her wedding? If so, would Benjy understand that she would be leaving him and the family?"

Good catch, Suzann. There are 2 scenes in the Benjy section in which Benjy is outside looking in through the window; Damuddy’s death when they are children and Caddy’s wedding. While I’m not sure Benjy knows Caddy is leaving the family, he does know that Damuddy was gone after they looked in at the wake. Maybe Benjy senses it.

Not sure about the unfamiliar sound from Benjy, but it could be laughing. Faulkner shows T.P. drunkenly laughing even while Quentin beats him up. And based on what we’ve scene of his life so far, laughing might be unfamiliar.

Is it fair to say that Benjy is unable to make inferences? He will often relate a conversation about something happening, so the reader knows what is happening, and then it just happens to him. After his mother tells Caddy to take the cushion away, he doesn't say that Caddy takes it way, the cushion just goes away. It's as if he is completely dissociated from what is happening to him, like one of those life after death experiences where someone "sees" doctors working his body from above himself.

He knows what is happening, but the way he sees it is as if he can't put the cause together with the effect. Is this produced by the strange way he processes time?

Thomas wrote: "He knows what is happening, but the way he sees it is as if he can't put the cause together with the effect. Is this produced by the strange way he processes time?."

I think you're right. He doesn't put cause together with effect.

I see it as akin to something like playing peekaboo with a baby. The baby doesn't make the connection you've hidden your face behind a pillow, for example. Your face has simply disappeared. And so when your face pops back up, the baby chuckles.

That's how I see Benjy. Things appear or come at him, and then they go away. He has no concept of why or how.

Benjy is also very tactile. He derives comfort from holding on to things, like a child clinging to his favorite stuffed animal or blanket. He likes to hold a flower--even if it's a weed. And he holds on to Caddy's wedding slipper:

Has he got to keep that old dirty slipper on the table, Quentin said. Why don't you feed him in the kitchen. It's like eating with a pig.
If you don't like the way we eat, you'd better not come to the table, Jason said

Another interesting thing about Benjy is that in addition to his heightened sense of smell, he has an uncanny ability to sense things that others can't.

For example, there is a section in which Benjy and Caddy deliver a letter to Mrs. Patterson from Uncle Maury. Caddy thinks Mrs. Patterson and Uncle Maury are arranging a surprise for her parents. But when Benjy has to deliver a letter to Mrs. Patterson by himself, he sees her eyes and starts to cry.

Why does he cry? What has he sensed that Caddy, who is older than him, has not figured out?

I am wondering what, if anything we should infer from Benjy indicating three different people all smelled like rain, and hearing the fire and the roof. Benjy is placed near the hearth during a rainstorm and and can hear the fire crackling and the rain hitting the roof, but why were those three out in the rain?

She led me to the fire and I looked at the bright, smooth shapes. I could hear the fire and the roof. Father took me up. He smelled like rain.

And then later:

We could hear the roof. Quentin smelled like rain, too.

And later still:

Dilsey said, All right. You all can come on to supper. Versh smelled like rain. He smelled like a dog, too. We could hear the fire and the roof.

I am probalby trying too hard to make something of this, but I also found it interesting that in the first instance Benjy says, "I could hear. . .", and in the next two he says, "we could hear. . ."

Tamara wrote: "Mike wrote: "Benjy seems to always be in the now. Even when he is thinking of things that happened in the past, he experiences the events again as if they happening to him at that moment in time..."

I think that's what makes it so sad. Time will never heal for Benjy. He doesn't have that luxury. A situation that caused him pain in the past is experienced with the same intensity as when it first occurred even if it first occurred decades ago. .."

This is a good insight. I was thinking about how, in Proust, being able to relive the past as if it were present can be a source of joy. For Benjy, it seems more like being trapped in an eternal present, where time does not move forward, where the same sad things happen again and again in different ways, with different people, but the same. Maybe Faulkner's comment on the sadness and alienation of Southern rural society in this era?

David wrote: "I am probalby trying too hard to make something of this, but I also found it interesting that in the first instance Benjy says, "I could hear. . .", and in the next two he says, "we could hear. . .".."

A good catch. I hadn't picked up on that before. It's very unlike Benjy to say "we" because he normally sees things exclusively from his perspective. I'm not sure what to make of it.

Benjy reserves his comparisons of people with natural elements (leaves, trees, rain) to individuals who are kind toward him--Caddy, Quentin (his brother), etc. He never says that about his mother or Jason. So maybe when he says "we" about these individuals, he is telling us they are part of his inner circle? A way of showing his love for them?

I'm not sure. But I'll be on the lookout for other examples to see when and where he uses "we."

Cphe wrote: "Is Benjy actually "delayed" or is it because he hasn't been taught to communicated in his 30's presents as a child in a man's body?"

Benjy definitely has a serious learning disability. As soon as it was discovered, his mother insisted on changing his name from Maury to Benjy because she did not want him associated with her brother. Dilsey objects to the name change:

Huh, Dilsey said. Name ain't going to help him. Hurt him neither. Folks don't have no luck, changing names.

Ignacio wrote: "Maybe Faulkner's comment on the sadness and alienation of Southern rural society in this era?.."

A good point. Some have argued that the decline of the Compson family represents the decline in the values and traditions of Southern society. This becomes very evident in the Jason section.