Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion

FYI: You should both be aware review exchanges are considered reviews done for compensation. You must, by FDA Regulation, disclose in both reviews that there was a review exchange done.

Review exchanges are not recommended and are not accepted as honest reviews by most readers.

Soliciting, exchanging, and purchasing reviews is an anomaly, associated primarily with independently and self-published authors.

Although some reviews obtained in such a manner are probably candid and sincere, many are not. As a result, most readers recognize them for what they are and, therefore, pay them little or no attention.

As Christine pointed out in message 3, solicited reviews must be identified as such. Most choose to ignore this regulation, which supports the belief that their honesty and veracity may be questionable.

This is much ado about nothing. Reviews are nothing more than feedback which every writer needs. If a book has merit it will play out no matter what. And for the record it's not the FDA it's the FTC.

You're welcome

I myself was wondering why the Food & Drug Administration would be concerned about reviews...

R.F.G. wrote: "I myself was wondering why the Food & Drug Administration would be concerned about reviews..."

Because a bad book can give you an upset stomach.

Quoleena wrote: "R.F.G. wrote: "I myself was wondering why the Food & Drug Administration would be concerned about reviews..."

Because a bad book can give you an upset stomach."

As a rule all that fiber constipates me.

Paul wrote: "This is much ado about nothing. Reviews are nothing more than feedback which every writer needs. If a book has merit it will play out no matter what. And for the record it's not the FDA it's the FTC."

Sorry about the error - obviously it's the FTC no the FDA - it was early...

Reviews are for readers - not authors. They're not supposed to be feedback for the writer. That work should have been done before the book was ever published. Reviews are written by readers for other readers as a way to evaluate the book before purchasing. That is why the FTC requires disclosure.

No, the FTC requires disclosure because you are endorsing a product for which you may or may not have been paid to endorse. It's a truth in advertising ruling. Too many scam artists have bilked the public too often selling everything from pills to the fountain of youth. Unfortunately, book reviews happens to fall under the FTC umbrella even though they are a minor component. Personally, I use reviews to hone my work before I publish and put my work out to the general public. I find that outside, unbiased reviews are a treasure trove.

Not to change the subject, but I will.

For those of you who are writers or have a book on Amazon or elsewhere you can shorten your books links. Simply go to: https://bitly.com and register--it's free. The site give you the ability to customize or personalize your lengthy links into short hand. For example my new book NANOVISION is http://www.amazon.com/NANOVISION/dp/B... but using bit links it's:http://bit.ly/Nanovision

Oh, and least I forget. In accordance with the FTC I did't get a darn thing for suggesting this to you. It's just really cool.

Cphe wrote: "What exactly do you mean by a "nice" review?"

Probably a 5 star one and definitely no lower than 4 stars ;)

So I went to dictionary.com and looked up the word "nice". The third definition was: characterized by, showing, or requiring great accuracy, precision, skill, tact, care, or delicacy: for example–nice workmanship; a nice shot; a nice handling of a crisis.

Could this mean that a "nice review" might mean a review that was well thought-out, skillfully analytical, or carefully constructed to provide a meaningful criticism of a literary work?

As writers we should recognize that "nice" doesn't always mean "nice".

Also consider this: The originator of this link appears to be a teacher. Go figure???

Jim wrote: "Soliciting, exchanging, and purchasing reviews is an anomaly, associated primarily with independently and self-published authors.

Although some reviews obtained in such a manner are probably candi..."

I'm curious as to why you think that soliciting reviews is an anomaly or mostly attributable to self-publishing. Trade publishers send out ARCs for pre-release reviews and solicit reviews from publications all the time (think Publisher's Weekly). Self-publishers are not only writers, but as the name suggests, publishers as well. Naturally, they will perform some of the same marketing activities, or try to, as trade publishers.

As for exchanging and/or purchasing reviews, I don't agree with either tactic.

Trad Publishers basically pay for reviews as reviewers (like everyone else) have bills to pay.

I've seen some glowing reviews for Trad Published books I read where I was convinced the reviewer either read a different book or was on good drugs because what I read was shazbat.

Susan wrote: "Trade publishers send out ARCs for pre-release reviews and solicit reviews from publications all the time (think Publisher's Weekly)...."

R.F.G. wrote: "Trad Publishers basically pay for reviews as reviewers (like everyone else) have bills to pay...I've seen some glowing reviews for Trad Published books I read where I was convinced the reviewer eit..."

Traditional Publishers may pay for "commercial reviews". Because everyone is aware of the commercial nature of the reviews, disclosure is not required.

Disclosure is required on any review that would appear to be from an unbiased private source when in fact that source has received any form of compensation - including a reciprocal review.

Goodreads and Amazon do NOT allow commercial reviews of books on their sites.

She did state "possibly a nice review" Good heavens, you all know exactly what was meant, why all the pompous windbagging?
And why underestimate people's intelligence? All reviewers know about disclosure.
Why are you all so unfriendly?

Christine wrote: "Susan wrote: "Trade publishers send out ARCs for pre-release reviews and solicit reviews from publications all the time (think Publisher's Weekly)...."

R.F.G. wrote: "Trad Publishers basically pay..."

So, to be clear about this - does Amazon prohibit review swapping? That is my understanding, but perhaps I amwrong.

Is that also true of Goodreads? If so, there seem to be many groups and threads in violation of that policy.

Amazon and Goodreads both prohibit "commercial" reviews done by professional reviewers, who are paid by a form of media to do reviews (such as NY Times, Publishers Weekly, etc).

Both also prohibit compensated reviews (Fiverr, paid reviews, etc) with the exception of a reviewer receiving a free copy, but disclosure is still required.

I looked into this a bit further. The Amazon terms of use also prohibit quid pro quo reviews (my term, not theirs). You can't say, I'll give you a good review if you give me a good review. That is am eminently sensible policy, and I don't think any honest person would say otherwise.

There are also various threads/blogs out there that say Amazon runs algorithms that try to identify when authors review each other. If they find such a case, they will delete the reviews. So, this would mean that, even if review swapping is not officially prohibited, it is prohibited as a practical matter.

Seems to me, review swapping carries risks. On top of the ethical issue, you don't want to get cross-wise with your main distribution outlet. The better path seems to be to just see if folks are interested in reviewing your book without asking for a swap. There are many many people on Goodreads who are willing to do that (and many have offered to do that for my own book). Amazon does not prohibit providing free copies for a review (as long as the reviewer makes the proper disclosure). Giveaways also seem to be a good way to go.

This is all rather frustrating for new authors (I am one of them), since most people would, I think, provide an honest review even as part of a swap (and authors need reviews if they are going to succeed). But there is no way to distinguish between an honest review and a review that's given with a wink.

So, for me at least, no more swapping in the future.

Shelley wrote: "Hi There,

I'd like to invite you to read my new book, "i Teach, Preach and Love" and possibly write a nice review. In exchange I would welcome reading your new book and writing a genuine review.
..."

It looks like several people have already told you about the challenges inherent in what you're asking. Further, please consider that you are asking for a "nice" review in exchange for an "honest" one. The words you choose are like tells in poker; I'm not saying your book isn't worthy of a good review (I don't know, as I haven't read it) ... but you seem to imply that you would prefer a dishonest good review to an honest bad one, and that bugs me.

Putting the review swap issue aside, how do people feel about Kirkus Indie reviews? You have to pay, but I understand from blog traffic that the reviews are honest (and sometimes brutally so). Do people have the same ethical concerns about that, given that it is clear that the reviews are being paid for?

Sorry if I am taking this discussion completely off track from the original purpose of this thread, but the discussion seems to have morphed a bit.

I don't think it's genuinely possible to give an honest review in a swap. It's way too loaded with human emotion involving this for that. It seems the only purpose of doing a review swap is to pad numbers and improve ranking, and that's cheating. And I agree with the comment that a "nice review" in exchange for a "genuine review" was bothersomely worded.

This thread is interesting... But, for the record, it goes on ALL the time!

I have been approached a lot for a review exchange on Facebook, especially for books about cookery, health, etc! I always so no thanks, but I know many authors do this! You usually know the books because of the tell-tale sign - loads of 5's and a few 1's with comments like, "Did everyone else read a different book?"

This happens everywhere reviews are needed though, not just for books. Restaurants, goods, etc. Until a better system is found it will continue.

I have a lot of books on my TBR list, so I'm sorry but I have no extra reading time at the moment.

Best of luck though :)

The problem with this world now, there are too many self-pubs. Traditionally published authors do this all the time. I've been reading romance novels for over thirty years, and I've never read one traditionally published book without accolades from other authors, but in this dog eat dog world everyone is suspect. No one wants to help and support each other without looking for something in return. I personally don't like to review swap, but I'm living in this world now and I do what I can to move things along. I had to review swap with an author and she came out and asked me if I would give her five stars. I told her if her book is deserving of five stars, then I’d give it five stars. I asked her why she felt she had to request five stars, and she told me everyone who had read her book had given it three or four stars. So I went to see her reviews on GRs and every book she’d reviewed she had given three or four stars, there was not one five star from her. So I told her that could be the reason. In the end, I did not review her book.

The vast majority of readers may occasionally tell someone how much they enjoyed or disliked a book; however, relatively few are inclined to post a formal review on a literary website.

The purpose of a review is for a reader to share their personal opinion of a book with other readers, not the author.

Perhaps it might be better to cease the practice of purchasing, swapping, and soliciting reviews altogether. Instead, leave it up to the readers. If they wish to submit a review they will. If they don't they won't.

Would not an author's time and effort be better spent striving to continuously improve their technical writing and narration skills than constantly fretting over reviews?

I don't see a problem with offering free copies in exchange for an unbiased review, but the author should accept what comes back with grace: good or bad.

The unsolicited reviews are sweeter though. There's nothing better than when a reader feels moved to tell others how much they enjoyed your book. And yes, I agree, they are ultimately for other readers. But who doesn't feel good after receiving a pat on the back.

Don't obsess, but do enjoy.

Cphe wrote: "What exactly do you mean by a "nice" review?"

Well, Harriet Klausner only gives 'nice' reviews, and look how helpful people find her :p

David wrote: "I don't see a problem with offering free copies in exchange for an unbiased review, but the author should accept what comes back with grace: good or bad.

The unsolicited reviews are sweeter though..."

David,

I like your attitude. A cursory review of the number of fans and readers' reviews of you work, included in your Goodreads profile, reveals that it has served you well. (That and an obvious talent for writing well-received novels, of course.)

I wish you continued success.

Thanks, Jim, very nice of you to say.

Good luck to you also.

Cphe wrote: "What exactly do you mean by a "nice" review?"

Plus, doesn't really sound fair to request a "nice" review, then offer to give a "genuine" review in return. Since of course genuine reviews aren't always positive. ;)

I think the OP would be better served in the long run to request honest reviews.

And yes of course, reader reviews are for readers, not authors. If they assist the author in any way that is a side benefit beyond the intended use and purpose.

Shelley wrote: "Hi There, Would you like me to email the .pdf manuscript? Do you have a book you would like feedback on? My email is [email protected]"

Are you wanting reviews, or feedback? Because that isn't the same thing.

Bec wrote: "All reviewers know about disclosure. "
Many readers don't actually know about the disclosure requirements. There are also those who do know and yet intentionally ignore them. So it's helpful to provide the information.

Reviewers on sites like this, and Amazon, are typically regular book consumers. To assume every reader who may desire to post a review on GR or Amazon, "knows about disclosure" is incorrect, as well as wildly optimistic. I didn't when I first joined GR, and I've seen many here express they didn't either when someone cared enough to provide the information to them.

James wrote: "Putting the review swap issue aside, how do people feel about Kirkus Indie reviews? You have to pay, but I understand from blog traffic that the reviews are honest (and sometimes brutally so). Do..."

I realize you may be wanting to hear from authors on how they feel about this, but I can tell you as a consumer I completely ignore all commercial reviews. I learned a long time ago they often were misleading, and typically didn't help me find if I would like the book or not.

If I can add my $.02, Amazon's review policies are largely unenforceable and convoluted. According to them, I can't write a negative review on any other Kindle ebook because it would be considered a "competing product." And a customer review, under FTC guidelines, is generally not considered an "endorsement" unless the reviewer is acting on behalf of a sponsoring advertiser or representing him-or herself as an endorser. In other words, anyone who reads a book on his or her own volition and is representing him or herself as a reader is not an endorser. If I purchase a book with my own money, what right does Amazon tell me I can't leave an honest review? If the other author chooses to do he same for me, that's not really their business. I am against "sweetheart deals" (you give me a five star and I'll give you one-that kind of thing). According to the law, you are technically supposed to disclose if you received a free book in exchange for a review, but once again, that rule is largely unenforceable and difficult to prove. Even financial compensation would be almost impossible to prove unless the reviewing account can be traced to a marketer (such as Fiverr). Please understand that I am not suggesting that anyone act unethically; I'm just stating that the rules as written are so convoluted that they can be interpreted any number of way. But I guess I'm just interpreting the law and Amazon rule as being anything fraudulent would be against the rules. I just don't understand how Amazon or the FTC can "prove" someone's personal opinion of a book (book reviews are so subjective that proving intent to mislead would be almost impossible). And I don't see anything fraudulent with leaving an honest review of a book you have read, whether you are a fellow author or just a reader. I think the law was mainly written to prevent advertisers from circumventing the truth-in-advertisement laws via reviews; it was not meant to keep writers from reviewing and critiquing each other's work.(While reading this law, I thought of Troy Palamalu. Who stand in the shower with him to make sure he uses Head and Shoulders?) So Shelly, feel free to ask for reviews, but just expect honesty. And one last question: if a review exchange is against Amazon's policies, why are there so many review exchange groups on Goodreads (which Amazon owns)? I guess I'm in the minority here, but I don't believe that an honest review exchange (and by "honest" I mean, for example, if I said the book was well-formatted when it wasn't, that would be a proveable lie. But if I said "this book is fantastic" that is an opinion, not a fact, and therefore cannot be right or wrong).

First, thank you Auntie J for the feedback re Kirkus Indie reviews. That sounds right.

Second, thank you Jessica for your thoughtful response regarding the issue of review swaps. Seems the answer is that no one really knows. I have no idea if Amazon applies the same policies to Amazon.com as it applied to Goodreads, but you are certainly right that there are many many swap reviews on Goodreads. And I actually took advantage of them, though now I am rethinking whether I should have, given the questions that have popped up. And, as you say, it is not clear what Amazon's policies actually are. It may just be a matter of personal preference, level of comfort, and practicalities (while always adhering to the bright line of not promising to exchange good reviews).

Jessica wrote: "If I can add my $.02, Amazon's review policies are largely unenforceable and convoluted. According to them, I can't write a negative review on any other Kindle ebook because it would be considered ..."

Jessica,

You make some very good points. Your logic and conclusions are indisputable.

Purchased, swapped, and solicited reviews are unreliable. Independent, freely given, reviews are personal opinions and, therefore, subjective. So why pay much, if any, attention to them? Book blurbs and sample chapters, provided by most vendors, should be all any reader needs when choosing which books to buy or borrow from the local library, and then read.

Jim - While I understand the reasoning behind that sentiment, it seems unrealistic. Given the millions of titles out there, reviews are very helpful to separate the wheat from the chaff. Word of mouth, i.e., reviews, seem to me to be critical. Relying solely on book blurbs and sample chapters seems like a recipe for having the book fade into obscurity very quickly.

James wrote: "Jim - While I understand the reasoning behind that sentiment, it seems unrealistic. Given the millions of titles out there, reviews are very helpful to separate the wheat from the chaff. Word of ..."

However, reviews won't help if no one believes them. I don't buy, sell, or trade reviews. Yet, my books all have reviews--except the book I released only a week ago, and it's selling pretty well without them. Just interact with people on Goodreads, get a Facebook page and a website, and if you have a book that interests readers, you'll get reviews.

James wrote: "First, thank you Auntie J for the feedback re Kirkus Indie reviews. That sounds right.

Second, thank you Jessica for your thoughtful response regarding the issue of review swaps. Seems the answe..."

Right. If someone feels uncomfortable with a review swap, then they shouldn't do it. And I have no moral or ethical issue with a paid review as long as it's truthful. I certainly don't think it's unethical for two writers to agree to buy each other's work or gift it to each other and review it truthfully (although, as someone pointed out, if you end up becoming friends with the writer, objectivity would be tough. The perfect review exchange setup would be a secret Santa-type set-up, where a group of about 6-10 writers grouped up and a leader assigned them each another writer's work. The members wouldn't know which writer had their work). I don't think you did anything wrong by participating in a review group. And I'm having a little trouble viewing a PDF copy of a manuscript as "compensation' or even as a "free physical product."

If I like a book and do a review (I don't swap and won't buy reviews), it's my subjective opinion for better or worse, same holds true for anyone reviewing my work. I have a 'nice' review where the reviewer pointed out everything she did or didn't like about a story of mine (very candidly honest), and one day I plan to put it in the front matter of the particular book.

I doubt my overall impression of any book would be of interest to most other people, so I usually don't leave a review, unless it's a book that grabbed my focus and kept it.

Ken wrote: "James wrote: "Jim - While I understand the reasoning behind that sentiment, it seems unrealistic. Given the millions of titles out there, reviews are very helpful to separate the wheat from the ch..."

I agree. That's what I said earlier in the thread. There are lots of people on Goodreads who review without asking for a swap. It's a great service that they provide. Some have reviewed my book on that basis and others are doing so now. (And those who review in exchange for a swap also provide a great service. They are honest, diligent, and smart - at least the ones I have worked with. It's just more complicated, that's all).

As a reader, I normally ignore the reviews. I am painfully aware of how many bogus reviews are out there, whether paid for, by swap, or sock puppet, or author circle. I am referring to the 5 star reviews where no one actually reads the book.

I select reading by getting a recommendation from someone I trust - or I check out authors who are active and get involved with discussions in an intelligent and sincere manner here on Goodreads. If their books look like something I would enjoy, I will likely buy it.

When I do a review, I always disclose how I obtained the book, whether I have any relationship with the author, and indicate no compensation was received. I only voice my honest opinion. For the record, I do not accept free books from anyone. If I decide to read and review a book, I personally purchase that book. I'm sure there are many readers who also do honest reviews, and I'm sure readers appreciate that honesty.

Reading this and many others similar threads makes me wonder even more about the value of reviews as I read comments from authors who try to rationalize why its okay to bend, or even break, the rules.

Food for thought.
http://keepgoingyoufool.blogspot.com/...

Christine wrote: "As a reader, I normally ignore the reviews. I am painfully aware of how many bogus reviews are out there, whether paid for, by swap, or sock puppet, or author circle. I am referring to the 5 star r..."

I just take reviews for what they are: other people's opinions about the book. If a book seems interesting to me, I'll give it a shot regardless of its rating.
I don't think the average reader is going to care how
or where I got the book or even whether or not I was
somehow compensated for my opinion. They are going to
think "Is this interesting to me?" and if so, they
will buy it and if not, they will pass it up. I really
think writers care more about the "honesty" of review
than readers do. (Now, if I was looking into buying a
product for my infant, then I would pay close
attention to the reviews. People report safety issues
there).

Christine wrote: "I select reading by getting a recommendation from someone I trust - or I check out authors who are active and get involved with discussions in an intelligent and sincere manner here on Goodreads. If their books look like something I would enjoy, I will likely buy it."

This is why I love GR, and how it is so valuable to readers. We can find reviewers we can learn to trust, that we find do give honest opinions, and that share our tastes. The more we can find readers like that to connect with the better the value and our experience here, I think.

And why authors shouldn't get as bothered as they sometimes do about overall average ratings, or some negative reviews.

Because word of mouth from someone we know is always going to have more value to us than a review from someone we don't know.

James wrote: "First, thank you Auntie J for the feedback re Kirkus Indie reviews. That sounds right.

Second, thank you Jessica for your thoughtful response regarding the issue of review swaps. Seems the answe..."

As a reader, and a GR user, due to things I have seen I have an issue with author review swaps. I have seen many examples of glowing five star reviews that, knowing the quality of the book, I cannot believe are honest. I've also seen glaringly obvious author swapping where it's clear the book wasn't even cracked.

Due to this I now no longer consider a review from any author, unless that specific author is known to be to be one who will post what they honestly think - good or bad.

Likely others aren't so aware or take such a line as I do, but that is what I think.

I know there are authors who do care about consumers and their integrity and who wouldn't post a false positive review. But there are many who don't, and if I don't know one way or the other I can't afford to trust them.

Jim wrote: "Book blurbs and sample chapters, provided by most vendors, should be all any reader needs when choosing which books to buy or borrow from the local library, and then read. "

I'm hoping that was sarcasm ;)

Book blurbs are often very misleading. Often one cannot tell from the blurb what the story is really about, or even what genre it is. Frequently I've found a book is marketed in a genre that when I read it I feel it is really in another.

Will a book blurb list for me whether the book has in it things I like in stories, and things I don't? Probably not. Will it tell me if the dog dies in the middle of the book? Nope, it won't. But me, as an individual, want to know.

This is why honest consumer reviews are so valuable. Because if there are enough of them, or someone who we can trust has read the book already, we can find out these things that matter to us as individual readers. No blurb could ever do that.

Not to mention blurbs are marketing, not unbiased, and therefore as I mentioned not always completely accurate.

Jessica wrote: "If I can add my $.02, Amazon's review policies are largely unenforceable and convoluted. According to them, I can't write a negative review on any other Kindle ebook because it would be considered ..."

Here! Here!

Paul wrote: "Jessica wrote: "If I can add my $.02, Amazon's review policies are largely unenforceable and convoluted. According to them, I can't write a negative review on any other Kindle ebook because it woul..."

Did you mean to reply to me? What do you want me to do with this?

Auntie J wrote: "As a reader, and a GR user, due to things I have seen I have an issue with author review swaps. I have seen many examples of glowing five star reviews that, knowing the quality of the book, I cannot believe are honest."

Here's another example I encountered recently, an author went through and 1-starred my entire catalogue. They then contacted me and said they would remove their 1-stars if I placed 5-star ratings on their entire catalogue. I didn't realise rating blackmail was a new way for desperate indies to increase their average. I reported the person concerned to Goodreads.

Let readers rate/review as they wish before the system becomes so corrupted it is meaningless. Goodreads is for readers, not authors. I agree with Auntie J and Christine and personally I rely on word of mouth recommendations or I follow the reviews of readers I trust.

Misfit wrote: "Food for thought.
http://keepgoingyoufool.blogspot.com/..."

:)