Georgette Heyer Fans discussion

It was been exactly 4 years since we read this title as a group!

GH's only Gothic novel (they were very popular in the late 60s & early seventies.)

So how many times have you read this novel?

Is it anyone's first read?

What format are you using this time?

Please remember to use spoiler tags - we don't want to spoil a first read for anyone! :)

I’ve read it before with the group, I enjoyed it but don’t remember much, I have the arrow paperback Cousin Kate , and as has become my habit, will enjoy the audiobook as well for this reread!

I’ve gotta few books to wrap up before starting and will catch up with you all.

I feel like I'm in the minority but I really like this book, and I've re-read it many times.

I'll probably listen to it this time just because I can listen faster than I can read.

Great to see you, Louise!

I am excited for this read - it has been 4 years since I last read it, and this time will be my 3rd time reading.

I am using my kindle, which has this cover:


Where is she taking that tray?

I've read it twice and really dislike it so I might give this one a pass this time.

I was able to download a copy onto my phone, it's got the Sourcebooks cover. I have not read this one before. I know it's not one of her most popular books, but I am still very excited about it.

My copy is a paperback that I think must be from the seventies, because I swear to God Kate looks like she's wearing one of those crocheted afghans:

Not that cover again! Haha

That cover would match a book titled
The Secret of the Granny Squares

I've read it many times and currently have the kindle version with the cover posted by Critterbee.

yes, where is she taking that tray?

I have read it twice - the last time 4 years ago and I’m not terrifically fond of it but I’m going to try again and see if my views change under the current situation!

That cover is hysterically bad.

I have only read this one once, but I'm actually feeling like a group read would be fun right now, so I think I'll give it a go!

I read this once, many years ago and I remember not liking it very much. I only remember little bits of it so it will be interesting to see how I feel about it in the group read.
My copy is one of my Arrow set.

I'm going to predict I enjoy it more with the group.

Jackie wrote: "I'm going to predict I enjoy it more with the group."

Now that is a good point! I've read this twice, and I really like the heroine, but the plot is too Gothic for my taste. Hm, I think I'd better continue in the spoiler thread.

Started it this morning. Even though I'm not too enthusiast about this one, once I began to read it was like coming home.

I've checked GR and I see I gave it four stars the last time so I must be mixing it up with something else. However we'll see how it goes this read.

even if it's my least favorite Heyer (and it might be), I still enjoy reading it!

I really enjoyed the opening scenes in London and I also like the heroine. Staplewood is a bit of a bore so I understand why she is getting restless. I have an idea where some of this is going, it seems that a match is being planned. I also think I know who the hero is, but his attitude towards the heroine is puzzling.
Sir Timothy is a dear.

Sheila (in LA) wrote: "I really enjoyed the opening scenes in London and I also like the heroine. Staplewood is a bit of a bore so I understand why she is getting restless. I have an idea where some of this is going, it ..."

Me, too - the opening scenes in London, with Sarah and the Nidds, are great fun! I agree, Sir Timothy is a love, but Torquil gives me the creeps - spoiled, indeed! And Lady Broome, for some reason, reminds me of Hyacinth Bucket...maybe it’s the Torquil/Tarquin son names, or the sense of self-importance (isn’t Tarquin Hyacinth and Richard’s son?) And Richard is a long-suffering sweetie, like Sir Timothy. Plus, like Hyacinth, nobody crosses Lady Broome, I think!

Hyacinth and Richard's son is Sheridan.
I also enjoyed the beginning where Kate stays with Sarah and the other Nidds.

Duh, of course, I can hear her now answering the phone, “Sher I DUN!” Thanks, Jackie - it’s clearly been too long, I need to watch Hyacinth soon!

you know what?

the name Tarquin sounds very familiar - could that be the name of one of Sheridan's friends?
I recall there was one he wanted to go on a walking holiday with (in Iceland?) and one he was going to share a flat with.

Sheridan! I couldn’t think of it. Lady Broome is a social climber, I agree, but she definitely seems more sinister than Hyacinth. And more skillful, maybe!

"The Bookay residence. The Lady of the House Speaking." I love Hyacinth and her crazy family.

Just read the first chapter today, and I was struck by how Lady Broome was kind and also careful of not only Kate's but the Nidds' feelings, too. We know she was a social climber because of Kate's father's memories, but she disarms us by laughing about her teen-aged pretensions and admitting to falling in love with Sir Timothy.

Oh, I love Hyacinth Bucket! I think Sheridan's roommate may have been Tarquin?

And, haha!!!, Critterbee The Secret of the Granny Squares is the perfect title for that book cover.

I've read Cousin Kate probably 2-3 times but its been a long time ago so it will be fun to see what I think now. I started listening to the Audible book narrated by Jilly Bond and I'm not sure I can continue; I'd be interested to know how others are doing with the audible version. So far, I think Jilly Bond is a good narrator, but her voice for Kate is SO off-character that I don't think I can go on (she makes her sound like a weird cross between a little girl and an old lady!). I wish all the libraries were open so I could hunt down the old cassette tapes of CK that were recorded by Sian Phillips (she did excellent narration for Sprig Muslin and Bath Tangle). I found the tapes on Amazon, but they're selling for $100 which is way beyond reasonable! So, I suppose I'll just be reading my paperback Sourcebooks copy.

Jackie wrote: "you know what?

the name Tarquin sounds very familiar - could that be the name of one of Sheridan's friends?
I recall there was one he wanted to go on a walking holiday with (in Iceland?) and one..."

Oh, that’s right! Poor Richard always puckers up uncomfortably when Hyacinth innocently babbles on about Sheridan traveling with “his friend Tarquin”, and a few well-placed snarky comments by Onslow drives the insinuation home...

Sheila (in LA) wrote: "Sheridan! I couldn’t think of it. Lady Broome is a social climber, I agree, but she definitely seems more sinister than Hyacinth. And more skillful, maybe!"

Good points!

Karlyne wrote: ""The Bookay residence. The Lady of the House Speaking." I love Hyacinth and her crazy family.

Just read the first chapter today, and I was struck by how Lady Broome was kind and also careful of n..."

Yes, she seems fine at first, I felt she was more skillfully manipulative once(view spoiler)[she and Kate reach Staplewood, and we see the creepy interactions between her and sonny boy, and even some of Sir Timothy’s and servant’s rather innocent comments give you a picture that Lady B. is up to something! (hide spoiler)]

Jane wrote: "Oh, I love Hyacinth Bucket! I think Sheridan's roommate may have been Tarquin?

And, haha!!!, Critterbee The Secret of the Granny Squares is the perfect title for that book cover.

I've read Cousi..."
So far, I like Jilly Bond all right - I’ll pay more attention to her as Kate, she definitely has the other characters down pat, I think. I have listened to Sian Phillips, she’s got a beautiful voice- but I agree, that’s highway robbery! I can’t complain, I don’t even have to use an Audible credit for this one, it’s available through my Scribd subscription.

I have the same cover as Susan in NC.

I loved the start- Kate came across as resourceful & engaging - & I loved the Nidds.

Margaret wrote: "My copy is a paperback that I think must be from the seventies, because I swear to God Kate looks like she's wearing one of those crocheted afghans: "

That's the one I have, too, and I try not to look at it because it destroys the Gothic mood by making me laugh.

Chapter VI has some interesting interactions. Kate meets Philip, finds in him someone she instinctively feels she could trust and then sees contempt in his eyes, which causes her to fire back at him. So far, so good, but when she meets Minerva a few minutes later, she's still so furious that she tells her she thinks him an odious person. Although I understand being in a rage, I'm surprised that Kate would make Minerva a gift of that rage. Kate has already noticed that her aunt is cold-blooded, and not motivated by love, or even affection, and it seems odd that intelligent and level-headed Kate would make her a somewhat-confidante!

This is my first read of Cousin Kate - I've been waiting for it to come around with the group, so I don't do it alone. I'm a couple days late because of work, but I can catch up.

I just finished my first read of Powder and Patch, and Cousin Kate is one of the only Heyer romances left that I've never read. In both her biographies, they talk about this book as if it's problematic, and sort of gloss over it. Apparently Heyer thought it one of her worst novels, although she was very ill when she wrote it, with some form of kidney trouble that caused severe edema, and I think that could affect how she felt about it. But her fans loved it, and it made a bundle, which didn't change her opinion about it.

It's going to be interesting to see just how far off the Gothic diving board it goes. I think The Reluctant Widow had a very gothic feel, but I suppose it had a light touch about it.

Alice wrote: It's going to be interesting to see just how far off the Gothic diving board it goes. I think The Reluctant Widow had a very gothic feel, but I suppose it had a light touch about it."

My impression has always been that Cousin Kate is Heyer's attempt at a "straight" Gothic, while The Reluctant Widow is her sly send-up of the genre.

I see it more as the reverse of Northanger Abbey, in that rather than a would be heroine that imagines a gothic setting, you have a very practical young woman that finds herself in one.

Kate is certainly not the fainting damsel of Udolpho, she would fit in any Heyer novel.

I agree, Louise. This is an upside down Gothic because of Kate.

Well, I'm ten chapters in, and I love it! Why didn't Heyer like this book? And Kate, veteran of the Peninsula, is level-headed and adorable. Louise mentioned Northanger Abbey in her post, which just moved higher on my read list. After this, I'll be ready for it - in fact, I already downloaded a Kindle that has all nine of the "Horrid Novels" from Northanger Abbey. Should be great fun.

I'm still trying to process all the negativity. Heyer biographer Jane Aiken Hodge just savaged this book, saying the characters were cardboard cut-outs, and the madness of Torquil poorly written, as well as ham-handed. I once knew a teenaged boy just like him, who gave me the shivers with his various violent obsessions and wild mood swings. So far, anyway, I think he's well-written, as is the creepy Lady Broome, so cooly manipulative. I looked up the name Torquil, thinking there might be a subtle message there, and found it's a pretty common Scottish name. Who knew? The name gets an entire Wiki entry.

And now Today's Heyer Word - anyone else ever see "gormless" before? It was a new one on me. It's already been used twice. I checked both my period slang sources, Eric Partridge and Francis Grose, and it wasn't there. Finally I found it in the OED. Apparently, "gorm" was once a clean way of saying "God damn." Dickens used it in David Copperfield. But gormless, since 1757, meant lacking in understanding or good sense, a corruption of an obscure word, "gome," that meant to take heed or notice, plus "less."

I impatiently await further gems.

I guess we are divided by our common language, Alice!

I'm in NZ & "gormless" is still in regular useage over here!

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "I guess we are divided by our common language, Alice!

I'm in NZ & "gormless" is still in regular useage over here!"

I'm in the UK, and I'm sure it's in common usage here, often to describe our politicians - which might be why it isn't in the books of period slang, since it isn't really slang, or obsolete! Its frequency rating is 3, same as discombobulate ...

Gormless is still used there? That is so cool! I'm packing up. I'll fit right in.

To Rosina, that's fascinating, that gormless is still used in the UK. We used to travel there often, and I don't remember ever having heard it. But have you ever noticed how the human mind can work? Before I got obsessed with the history of slang, I used to hear these words a lot, because I loved British books and TV shows. But they quite often flew ten feet over my head. You can space out on a word if you understand the meaning in context. For example, the other night I was watching the film The Ghost and Mrs. Muir again, and the maid says to her that she got a "billet doux," pronouncing it like an American, "billie do." Years ago, when I didn't know what it was, I just ignored it. Now I heard it, and laughed. This time, I got the subtlety in the joke.

Nowadays, whenever I hear a new word I run to jot it down, then hunt it down.

I love words like "discombobulate" - I was just doing a blog post that had a discussion of the portmanteau word "thingamabob." More a nonsense word, really. But it's funny that none of my slang sources use a frequency rating, or an interesting equation like that, words with shared ratings. All my sources are terribly old-fashioned. It's probably more common in online slang dictionaries - computers made the old attempts at frequency counting doable. This gives neurotics about language like me a new toy.

Alice wrote: "Gormless is still used there? That is so cool! I'm packing up. I'll fit right in.

To Rosina, that's fascinating, that gormless is still used in the UK. We used to travel there often, and I don't ..."

Taken from newspapers across the spectrum in 2019

The Telegraph, March 2019 "The gormless Mr Letwin is best known for his habit of walking around the park with his correspondence, dictating replies to letters from constituents and MPs, and then stuffing the said letters in the nearest waste bin – until his unusual filing system was rumbled in 2011. "

The Guardian, June 2019 "Three maddening, mendacious, slippery, gormless, prevaricating years later – even after polling data emerged saying that, contrary to popular thinking, there appeared to be a majority of Remain-Labour members and voters – Corbyn remains the invisible man of Brexit."

The Mirror, also June 2019 "Jeremy Hunt looked exactly as he is: Continuation Theresa May. A gormless, characterless, careerist robot offering more of the same."

The Daily Mail, November 2019 "Corbyn appeared with his weary eyes a-twinkle and mouth arranged in a gormless Bugs Bunny grin."

So funny, Rosina! Gormless reminds me of the Brit "wet", which if you used it here, would get you puzzled and concerned looks!

Alice wrote: "Well, I'm ten chapters in, and I love it! Why didn't Heyer like this book? And Kate, veteran of the Peninsula, is level-headed and adorable. Louise mentioned Northanger Abbey in her post, which jus..."

There are very few of us Heyer fans who think Cousin Kate, the book, is great, but since I adore Cousin Kate, the person, I do!

You should hear some of the words we use here in Ireland!! You'd be 'bamboozled'!!

Teresa wrote: "You should hear some of the words we use here in Ireland!! You'd be 'bamboozled'!!"

Is bamboozled Irish? I do know stotious, which is rather more limited in use. And various other uncomplimentary words like gurrier and culchie.

bamboozle reminds me of gongoozler - someone who idly watches canal boats ... Yes, that is a real word, in the OED!

We are slightly off-topic, I know, but perhaps the Nidds use canal transport, and we can watch their canal boats.

Oh, we definitely use bamboozled! Even occasionally, gobsmacked, but I'm definitely going to try to remember gongoozler. And I'm thinking some of the gormless grandsons could be gongoozlers...

Alice wrote: "Anyone else ever see "gormless" before?

There you go, I thought it was typically Scottish! At least my English colleagues say it is. Huh. Bunch of gongoozlers!

Alice wrote: "Well, I'm ten chapters in, and I love it! Why didn't Heyer like this book? And Kate, veteran of the Peninsula, is level-headed and adorable. Louise mentioned Northanger Abbey in her post, which jus..."

You know, I think I'll give it another chance! I always thought Torquil was unconvincing, but if you recognize his particular form of madness... And seeing it in a different genre, with different expectations, might open up a whole new book.

Elizabeth wrote: "Alice wrote: "Well, I'm ten chapters in, and I love it! Why didn't Heyer like this book? And Kate, veteran of the Peninsula, is level-headed and adorable. Louise mentioned Northanger Abbey in her p..."

Maybe it does take some re-reading; I know this time around I did feel that Torquil was more real.