Literary Horror discussion

The Lottery is the last story in my copy as well and it was the first one I read too. I had never read it before. The ending was(mostly) spoiled for me but that didn't take away from its horror.

Was it the first time reading The Lottery for anyone else?

I was introduced to Shirley Jackson's writing only last year and she has quickly become one of my favourite authors.

I just learned about "James Harris" and his role in these stories. Interesting stuff! Lends a 'Where's Waldo' aspect to the reading. :)

Wishing all you Literary Horror fans a wonderful new year!

We read The Lottery in junior high school, if I remember correctly. My copy has a foreword by A. M. Homes and the last story is The Lottery.

I'm going to try to participate in this one, if I can keep up.

I'm willing to particpate in a group read for once given I just got a copy of Novels and Stories as a gift and have been meaning to read her short story collection.
I've read The Lottery back in high school, though it was before I became an avid reader and aspiring writer. Now Jackson is my favorite author.
And Happy New Year!

I'd like to participate in this one, too. Shirley Jackson is hard to beat.

This is from the Wikipedia article on "The Lottery":

Response to the story was negative, surprising Jackson and The New Yorker. Readers canceled subscriptions and sent hate mail throughout the summer.[4] The story was banned in the Union of South Africa.[5]

That surprises me. I thought the story was popular right away. What happened between the hate mail and teaching it in middle school, I wonder?

The irony of the story being banned in South Africa...

Did you like it Randolph? I read it twice because I never really saw the point the first time.

My take from some of these stories is that they are dated. I think the conversation between the guest and the teenage girl is meant to make the reader feel very uncomfortable. The first time I read it the conversation sounded pretty normal to me. I guess the daughters views about the future are very bleak, and I liked the quote about people not being able to live in houses(the horror!).

There's also the take on cocktail party conversation being utterly insipid and the guest being too drunk to keep up with the girl, who is saying far more interesting/disturbing things than the adults.

If there was any more to this one, it was lost on me.

Thus far I've read:
Introduction by A.M. Homes
"The Intoxicated"
"The Daemon Lover"
"Like Mother Used to Make"
"Trail by Combat"

"The Intoxicated" is an ok story for me. From what I can tell, the story was first published in 1949. The story alludes to the world-political situation of the time. Keep in mind that in 1946 Winston Churchill gave the "Iron Curtain" speech; in 1947, the X Article by George Kennan was published which said that United States policy toward the Soviet Union "must be that of a long-term, patient but firm and vigilant containment of Russian expansive tendencies".

I was underwhelmed by the next three stories. Its like the literary fiction that gets published in academic literary journals--mimetic, plotless, "slice-of-life" fiction.

A horror story is about a menace. Those three stories doesn't have a menace.

Sorry to hear you aren't liking these Ronald. I think Shirley Jackson thought horror was other people. Her menace is small mindedness, mob mentality, judgement/gossip, and the everyday meanness that some people relish in shelling out to anyone they can take advantage of.

I don't believe this book is a collection of horror stories. At least, it wasn't meant to be, from what I've read about this collection.
Personally, I didn't find the Aickman collection we read to be horror stories either. I thought of them as just weird. After reading The Intoxicated, I'm wondering if these tasks will be more weird than horrific? Or are they not even weird and just plain slice of life as mentioned above?

*ponders* I disagree about a horror story having a menace, but to me that word connotes something concrete, and usually external to the established way of things. (Honestly, "The Lottery" doesn't have a menace, either. "The Summer People" does.)

I think a horror story has something horrible happening, and I think both "The Lottery" and "The Daemon Lover" qualify.

(As to whether or not there is a malevolent supernatural presence active in several of the stories in the collection--well, Kirstin already mentioned James Harris. :) )

Frances wrote: "*ponders* I disagree about a horror story having a menace, but to me that word connotes something concrete, and usually external to the established way of things. (Honestly, "The Lottery" doesn't h..."

The tall man in the blue suit. I love his role here. : )

I thought The Daemon Lover was great. It had a real sense of panic and despair. (view spoiler)['She' reminded me of Elenor in The Haunting of Hill House. I had the same question as to whether her problems were real or imagined. I saw this story clearly in my mind, like a movie. Loved it! (hide spoiler)]

Agreed. I find it to be more about realizing the extent to which a malevolent force has already succeeded than witnessing it while there's still time to do something about it, but the isolation and tricked loss it evokes is, for me, incredibly effective. On that level, it's like being a kid again and watching the second adaptation of Finney's Invasion of the Body Snatchers. (pardon formatting, commenting from phone)

Now I've read "The Villager", "My Life With R.H. Macy" , "The Witch" and "The Renegade". My Kindle says I'm 30 percent done with the book.

Heh. "The Witch" was creepy. I also liked "My Life With R.H. Macy". Its like Dilbert style humor. I have a feeling though that I don't fully understand it. "The Renegade" has a macabre sense of humor. While reading the discussion between the characters on what they should do to the dog had me going "Oh---my---god---".

Brief thoughts on “The Intoxication”.

(view spoiler)[ Not really a horror story per se. My interpretation (perhaps right, perhaps not) sees the tale as reflecting the apocalyptic fears that were beginning to permeate American discourse at the close of the 40’s. (Huxley’s Ape and Essence had been published the previous year; Orwell’s 1984 came out in the same year as Jackson’s story.) Jackson’s approach to this theme emphasizes the generational divide: the narrator (and other adults at the party) are portrayed as condescending, shallow, and pre-occupied with inconsequential trivialities. In contrast to the adults (who, it is implied, have allowed the world to slip into its current state) we have the younger Eileen (presumably a stand-in for the author), who is seen as more thoughtful and perceptive.

Not great, but an interesting story. (hide spoiler)]

✭✭✭

Kirstin wrote: "I thought The Daemon Lover was great. It had a real sense of panic and despair. [spoilers removed]"

I read The Daemon Lover last night and I enjoyed it. I, too, had no problem seeing the situation through the narrator's eyes and I felt her increasing panic in not finding the tall man in the blue suit.

I'm looking forward to seeing how this James Harris is going to link these stories together, or if he even does at all. It's an interesting concept to have a loose, but not concrete, thread connecting the stories.

Randolph wrote: "Many of these stories, I guess because of their themes and compactness, and maybe the era they were written in, have a Twilight Zone feel to them."

They definitely do. There's a nightmare feel as well, like a dream where everything is normal but 'off' and you just fall deeper and deeper into the oddness.

Charlene wrote: "Kirstin wrote: "I thought The Daemon Lover was great. It had a real sense of panic and despair. [spoilers removed]"

I read The Daemon Lover last night and I enjoyed it. I, too, had no problem seei..."

The book was originally subtitled 'The Adventures of James Harris'. I wonder why they took it away?

I've read a few different blogs and opinions online. Most seem to believe he's not a good guy.

http://blog.mixerpublishing.com/?p=1596

I'm up to My Life With R. H. Macy.
I love her prose as always, but these stories aren't doing much for me, other than my curiosity about James Harris.

I think you'll really like the next few Charlene. :)

From what I've read James Harris represents the devil. In the epilogue of my copy is an excerpt of The Demon Lover, an old song/poem where he is the devil who seduces a woman away from her family with promises of paradise but he takes her to hell instead.

That's what the post at the blog link I posted above thought too. I shall go forward with that in mind.
But if he's the devil, are we then back to thinking these are horror stories again?

I loved The Tooth (view spoiler)[ when she looks in the mirror and can't distinguish herself from the other women, chilling. The way she tells the story I never knew whether Clara was just drugged and sleep deprived or if she lost her mind along with her tooth. I'm thinking she went mad. I think The Tooth is the story that coincides with the poem The Demon Lover the most. With old Jim taking her away to warmer climates. (hide spoiler)]

I liked The Witch a lot. :)

Charlene wrote: "I liked The Witch a lot. :)"

Yay! The Witch was the first one I read after The Lottery. I think that's why The Intoxicated left me wanting.

The only story I didn't like was Elizabeth.

Brief thoughts on “The Daemon Lover” and “Like Mother Used to Make”.

I’m only very slowly making my way through Jackson’s stories, having been distracted by other reading projects. The second and third stories are both an improvement over the first, “Intoxication”. (view spoiler)[“The Daemon Lover”, one of the author’s better known stories, is cleverly structured so as to allow the reader to consider two mutually exclusive theories as to just what is going on. The first is that Jamie Harris actually exists as (perhaps) some supernatural entity, as alluded to by the story’s title as well as by the collection epilogue. The second (and to my way of thinking more credible) theory is that the story gradually reveals the narrator’s mental instability; she is, in effect, an unreliable narrator. Certainly the narrator seems to represent an instance of those female literary creations who are emotionally and mentally fragile and also subject to societal pressures to marry by a certain age.

The third story is in some ways almost a bookend to the second; in David Turner we see another overly-fastidious and marginalized person. The manner in which Turner is almost ignored during his conversation with the grocery clerk, for example, is very reminiscent of narrator’s interactions as she queries people about the whereabouts of her fiancé. The story continues on to the logical and yet surreal conclusion in which Turner willingly leaves his own beloved apartment; one feels that he won’t be returning to it. (hide spoiler)]

“The Daemon Lover” ✭✭✭✭
“Like Mother Used to Make” ✭✭✭✭½

I agree with Canavan's interpretations. The ambiguity of a supernatural entity or a distorted perception of reality as explanations is what I enjoy about Jackson. In terms of that disorientation she gives the reader, I think this is even more so in "The Tooth."
James Harris is an interesting character. While I was reading I didn't want to look up who he was, but I did get the an uneasy feeling when he was mentioned or made an appearance. If he's the devil, it fits.

I'm really enjoying it.
I agree with some earlier comments about how the real menace being portrayed here is that of other people and society.
Some of the stories are really making me cringe inwardly - like The Flower Garden and Elizabeth. The Dummy reminded me a little of Thomas Ligotti's work, especially the sinister descriptions.

Some of the stories seem to hint at some underlying unpleasantness, that may not come to fruition - but the journey is unsettling enough. I'm only half way through, but looking forward to the title piece!

I'm slowly coming along. I'm going to tackle a couple of more stories tonight.

I liked the two stories I read last night. Especially the one with the chicken killing dog and After You, My Dear Alphonse.
(view spoiler)[ What a racist bitch that woman was in the Alphonse story. I loved how her racism went right over the kid's heads. They knew they liked and had fun with each other, and that's all they needed to know. (hide spoiler)]

"The Tooth" is an interesting story. Could be classed as a weird tale.

Randolph, that's exactly why it's so horrific. :(

I just want to share some notes from the back of my copy Novels and Stories.
Apparently 'Elizabeth' was the beginning of an unfinished novel Jackson planned. Apparently her influences came from the 'Sadducismus Triumphatus' a book about witchcraft, and so the situation parallels discovering and condemning a witch. In this case, Elizabeth is the witch, Mr. Shax, the demon, and Miss Hill, the victim. Elizabeth sides with the devil, Mr. Harris, and leads to her destruction.

Finished.
I am glad that people like the books I nominate.

Ronald wrote: "Finished.
I am glad that people like the books I nominate."

I finished it last night and I certainly enjoyed it. I hadn't heard of the book before it was nominated, thank you!

I just finished this today and while I enjoyed this collection, I'm slightly disappointed.
I adored both Hill House and We Have Always Loved in the Castle and I expected tales that were on that level, I guess. These were well written, but somehow, I'm not satisfied.
3.5 stars, subject to change after I mull things over for a few days.
What did you all think of The Tooth? What a weird story. Am I missing something?

Randolph wrote: "In retrospect, The Tooth and The Lottery were my favorite stories. The Tooth is certainly not as straightforward as The Lottery but it is nevertheless as chilling. I think The Tooth definitely qu..."

Well, it certainly was weird and strange.
In any case, I'm glad I read this collection. Even though I had it on hand, it may have been years before I actually read it, if it hadn't been for this group. So thanks, Randolph! :)

Hope it's ok to contribute to this thread even though it's 6th February!

I finished the book last night, thought it was great, but contained much less conventional "horror" than I was expecting. That's not a criticism, by the way, I was very happy to find that these tales were better described as snapshots of unhappy people, places and situations. Some of the standouts were The Witch, The Tooth, The Lottery, Charles and Seven Types of Ambiguity.

Despite the collection not really being "horror" as I understand, the stories did affect me and I did have trouble getting to sleep as soon as I closed the book last night.

I'm glad you ended up enjoying it, but sorry that you lost some sleep over it.

I made Randolph keep the threads open so it is ok to discuss the books at any time! I hope to get to it soon myself...

Charlene wrote: "I'm glad you ended up enjoying it, but sorry that you lost some sleep over it."

Don't be sorry, that's what I'm after with horror literature

Scott wrote: "I made Randolph keep the threads open so it is ok to discuss the books at any time! I hope to get to it soon myself..."

I would love to hear your thoughts, Scott. :)

I liked "The Intoxicated." Vaguely unsettling, but probably more then than now.

I thought "The Daemon Lover" was never going to get going, with all that fussing about with the dresses. Did Jamie exist? If not, what was the origin of her delusion? Or was he a phantom who only toyed with her for a time? And what was the significance of her print dress? I liked this one once she left the house.

So Jamie Harris does exist, apparently, and there is a theme of role-swapping in the next few stories.

These aren't really doing anything for me, so far. In a generous mood I might call them "interesting", these odd little vignettes. But there's no substance.

"My Life With William H. Macy"...what the hell?
I'm not sure if I am going to continue with this.

Scott wrote: ""My Life With William H. Macy"...what the hell?
I'm not sure if I am going to continue with this."

Scott, I am with you on this, sir! I loved The Lottery, (and a couple of other stories), and all of the stories were will written, but overall, I was disappointed in this collection.

I might just skip ahead and read "The Lottery."