Fantasy Book Club discussion

Who is reading Rogues by George R.R. Martin this month?

I am, Brenda! Rather than read each story in sequence I'm skipping around to first read those that seem more interesting based on the brief intro before the story.

Here's what I'm hoping to get out of the read...with the help of the group. I'm hoping to discover authors I've not yet read, but who write a compelling story. There are 21 short stories in Rogues, some more "fantasy" than others. In my opinion, crafting a well developed short story is an artform that not all novelists have mastered, especially those who tend to write lengthy (500+ pages) pieces, so what we're reading here may or may not be indicative of the true style of the author. This is where we can help one another...

If you've read both the short story and a novel or two by the same author, would you please state whether or not you believe the short story was a fair representation of his/her writing style/storytelling ability? (Also suggestions for longer reads by the same author would be helpful.) I'd hate to pass over some authors who didn't grab me with their short story. But I also don't want to waste time on those who do not appeal to me...or at least save them 'til the end.

I've read it last year and written reviews for every story in it.

Joe Abercrombie's story is a very good representation of a literary figure he recently uses very often - the handover cutscenes. I'd consider it as very typical.

Swanwick's story is also representative of his con-men stories with Darger and Surplus.

Scott Lynch was fantastic, though the setting in his story has nothing to do with Gentlemen Bastard.

Rothfuss' story is about Bast, and I loved it.

Connie Willis seems to be consistent with her style annoying me immensely.

The only really huge disappointment was by GRRM, who once again did a boring history textbook, aka the GRRMarillion. Of course there are many nerds who love him for this kind of background. I don't.

Andreas wrote: "I've read it last year and written reviews for every story in it.

Joe Abercrombie's story is a very good representation of a literary figure he recently uses very often - the handover cutscenes. I..."

Oh, thank you Andreas! Exactly the feedback I was hoping for..much appreciated!

have it on kindle and will try to read but I have so much tbr already :(

I'm reading it, and so far I've only been really disappointed with the Connie Willis story (I'm skipping around). That one just dragged on forever for me. The Joe Abercrombie was okay -- the only thing I've read by him before is The Blade Itself, and what I enjoyed about that was the characterizations, which the short story doesn't much allow for.

I haven't read anything by Gillian Flynn or Matthew Hughes before this, and both their stories were really fun! Actually, when I started the Flynn story I immediately handed it over to my husband because I thought he'd find the opening funny, and I didn't get my Kindle back 'til he'd finished it, and he Never reads anything but car magazines and news! When I finally Did get it back I also enjoyed the story very much -- she kept me guessing. The Inn of the Seven Blessings felt more "traditional" to me, but well done.

I actually bought the book before it was chosen as a group read for the Neil Gaiman and Scott Lynch stories, and I read those first. Both were excellent, though I wonder how the Gaiman would work for a reader who hadn't read Neverwhere. Lynch's had a different setting than his Gentlemen Bastards' but is consistent with his style, which I love.

Looking forward to reading the rest!

Thanks for the input, Melora. Haven't gotten to the ones you've mentioned.

I'm a fan of Steven Saylor's Roma Sub Rosa series (historical fiction/mystery), so I started with his story Ill Seen in Tyre. In my opinion, while the story was good, it was not his best work...his novels are better.

The next one I read was by George R.R. Martin. I haven't watched any of the Game of Thrones television episodes, nor have I read anything by him, but I was curious because of all the "hype". I'll have to agree with Andreas. I was not impressed with his short story . If his novels are no better, then I probably won't read them.

Third I read The Lightning Tree by another familiar author, Patrick Rothfuss. I thought this one was very good. He built the story around a known character from his Kingkiller Chronicle series, and maybe that added something for me.

On to more stories...

Two more to add...

A Year and a Day in Old Theradane by Scott Lynch I also liked; creative and interesting.

A Cargo of Ivories by Garth Nix wasn't bad either. I have not read anything else by this author but would consider trying a novel/series, if anyone has suggestions. (Lots of people categorize his books as YA. Is that a fair representation?)

I picked it up and plan on joiningin....

You are all inspiring me. Great reviews guys.

Monica wrote:

A Cargo of Ivories by Garth Nix wasn't bad either. I have not read anything else by th..."

The only Garth Nix I've read (mostly read) was Mister Monday. I got 3/4 through it, as a read-aloud with my kids before we all agreed to give it up. He may have some adult stuff, but I think he is mostly a juvenile/YA author. For what it's worth, we were reading Mister Monday because my parents, who generally have excellent taste, had read the series to my nephew and loved them.

did he write sabriel? That wasn't too bad

Okay, I'm getting a bit "rogued out," and am going to take a couple days off (this is long collection!), but first I'll note my impressions of the stories I've read since The Inn of the Seven Blessings before I forget them!

Bent Twig I really didn't care for. I don't know that it was badly done, but not my kind of story. I didn't find the setting, any of the characters, or the situation to be interesting.

Tawny Petticoats was fun. Not hugely original, maybe, but the characters were likable and the story entertained me. (Though I'd have appreciated a little explanation of Surplus's surprising manual dexterity!)

Provenance was a nice change of pace for me and I enjoyed it quite a bit.

Roaring Twenties bored me. I liked it better than Connie Willis's story, but that isn't saying much.

As I said in my first post, A Year and a Day in Old Theradane was one of the two stories I bought the collection for, and I liked it very much. Scott Lynch does a marvelous job, for me anyway, of creating intriguingly detailed worlds and engaging characters.

Bad Brass was okay, but I won't be looking for anything else by the author.

Heavy Metal, by Cherie Priest, was one of my favorites so far. To me it seemed quite original, and I'd be interested in reading more by Priest, especially if others here recommend her!

Melora wrote: "The only Garth Nix I've read (mostly read) was Mister Monday. I got 3/4 through it, as a..."

Thanks, Melora. The short story didn't seem YA to me, but I'll pass on the novels if that's his audience.

Well, I haven't reached his short story yet, so maybe I'll be inclined to give him another chance, if I like it! Sabriel, which Martha recommends, Does sound good, but it is published by HarperTeen, so I would assume it is also aimed at a YA audience.

Melora, really good comments on the stories you've read. Next, I think I'll try the Cherie Priest one you liked so much.

Martha wrote: "did he write sabriel? That wasn't too bad"

Thanks, Martha. I downloaded a sample of the Kindle version to see how it reads. It has very high reviews both on Goodreads and Amazon.

I hope you like it. It Did feel as though it needed to be continued -- the main character's back story left me wanting more!

Just finished Heavy Metal by Cherie Priest. I agree with Melora...definitely a highlight of this collection of shorts. The author writes a compelling story, without being too "obvious", and just enough "creepy". I did get confused at the end so if anyone can clarify, please do. (view spoiler)[When Ammaw Pete tells Kilgore: "There was life in this place. A lot of life. Your life. And my Old Man...He borrowed a bit to make his point. You did a good job, calling him back." So, who exactly is she referring to as "my Old Man"? Is it literal (as in the ghost/spirit of a dead husband), or figurative (as in the spirit of the living trees that left long ago)? (hide spoiler)]

Here's my idea on that, Monica... (view spoiler)[ I think she is referring to what she sees as a nature deity, and Kilgore sees as an angelic power. Kilgore prays, "God of Creation, send your angels. Send them in a shape this mf will know..." And I Love the line, "One God, he corrected. "Just the one -- old, new, and always. But He's got a very diverse workforce."

I assume Ammaw's "old man" is the Horned God, a nature god, who, one would assume, would have left the area after all the plants and animals died or left. I had to google Tubal-Cain, who is a descendant of Cain with connections to mining, metals, and metal work. Anyway, Ammaw says "Oh, sure. You can ask the pagan holdouts for a handout, but I can't tease a bit about astrology..."

What I don't quite get is "the flicker in her eyes didn't come from the flashlight, or the moon." I would have assumed that she was supposed to be some sort of nature goddess, but that doesn't work with her comment about not having "a million years." So that is a bit mysterious to me, if you have an idea about it! (hide spoiler)]

Melora wrote: "Here's my idea on that..." That was my thought as well...(view spoiler)[nature spirit, until "the flicker in her eyes". I wondered who or what she is, and if the Old Man was tied to her, either as two like beings working together or as some idol she worships. She certainly seems "otherworldly". The key may be in the implied meaning of "Ammaw". I did a quick search and it's a familial term used in the Old Testament. (See Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament, Vol. 8.) Hope I'm not trying to make more of this than the author intended. (hide spoiler)] This short story could easily be turned into a complete novel (or series).

That's brilliant, Monica! I hadn't thought to look up "Ammaw," but (view spoiler)[ the suggested meanings for ammaw in Illuminating Leviticus: A Study of Its Laws and Institutions in the Light of Biblical Narratives would certainly suggest a wife/partner to a priest, which would make sense if she is referring to the Horned God. Wikipedia (sorry!) describes the Horned God as "one of the two primary deities found in some neopagan, especially Wiccan, religions. He represents the male part of the religion's duotheistic theological system, the other part being the female Triple Goddess or other Mother Goddess." Which would nicely explain the sparkle in her eyes, though not the reference to her limited time.

This would have expanded well into a novel, or, as you say, into a series (where we could learn more about Kilgore's friendship with Pastor Martin!). (hide spoiler)]

Hello Everyone. I'm glad we are reading a book of short stories! I love the opportunity to discover new authors and stumble upon short stories set in the same worlds as books I've read previously.

I've decided to just start at the beginning and read through all of the stories. So far I have read the introduction and the first story, Tough Times All Over. This is my first experience reading something by Joe Abercrombie, despite the fact that I own The First Law Trilogy and Best Served Cold. The books were recommended to me so many times, I went ahead and purchased them, but haven't gotten around to reading them yet. Based on this story, I think I will really enjoy Abercrombie's writing and I am now anxious to read The First Law Trilogy once I clear a few books off my currently reading shelf.

Next up is a short story by Gillian Flynn. I've only read one book by this author, and honestly didn't really like it all that much. I wasn't looking forward to What Do You Do?, but it seems like others here enjoyed it so that raised my hopes a bit. Also, based on the attention it is receiving, I am now really looking forward to reading Heavy Metal!

I started yesterday. I'm listening to the audio. So far, good. (Listened only to George R.R. Martin's introduction haha.)

Melora wrote: "That's brilliant, Monica! I hadn't thought to look up "Ammaw," but the suggested meanings for ammaw..."

Melora, great insights. Really good discussion...glad we "figured it out" ;-). I was fine with this story until the last half page...

Janine wrote: "So far I have read the introduction and the first story, Tough Times All Over. This is my first experience reading something by Joe Abercrombie...Based on this story, I think I will really enjoy Abercrombie's writing and I am now anxious..."

Hi Janine, looking forward to your thoughts on other stories as well. I skipped over the first story, but now I think I'll go back and pick it up.

Thoughts on other stories I've finished...

The Inn of the Seven Blessings by Mathew Hughes wasn't bad, but I'm not sure this story alone would entice me to read more of his books. Has anyone read Hughes?

Bent Twig by Joe R. Lansdale was not for me. (No fantasy element in this, just fiction.)

A Better Way to Die by Paul Cornell has an interesting story concept. I liked the premise, but the writing style was a bit "flat" for my taste. I'm on the fence about reading this author further...unless someone suggests otherwise.

Off to read a few more....

Lára wrote: "I started yesterday. I'm listening to the audio. So far, good. (Listened only to George R.R. Martin's introduction haha.)"

Lara, I'm curious...is it one narrator reading the entire collection? Or do they have different narrators for different stories?

Monica wrote: "Lára wrote: "I started yesterday. I'm listening to the audio. So far, good. (Listened only to George R.R. Martin's introduction haha.)"

Lara, I'm curious...is it one narrator reading the entire c..."

Different narrators, couple of them.
George R.R. Martin (as mentioned) read his own introduction, and couple of different narrator's names were introducted in the audio intro. ^^

I just started this yesterday - all the comments made me curious!

I thought Abercrombies was quite typical of his work - and I think I've read almost all of his books.

Anyway, it will be fun to read these and to see everyone's insights.

Kept seeing this in the comment feed, and saw in in OverDrive for my library, so I'm going to join in too. :)

Nice to see others joining in. Looking forward to everyone's comments. Many of the authors in this book are new to me so I appreciate the different perspectives and experiences other readers offer.

Suzanne wrote: "I thought Abercrombies was quite typical of his work - and I think I've read almost all of his books..."

Suzanne, that's good to know. I just finished Abercrombie's short Tough Times All Over. I would explore other writing he's done. Do you have anything in particular to recommend as a good place to start?

Melora wrote: "...though I wonder how the Gaiman would work for a reader who hadn't read Neverwhere. "

Melora, I have not read Neverwhere, but did read Gaiman's short How the Marquis Got His Coat Back and it was fine as a standalone. In fact, I've since added Neverwhere to my reading list because I enjoyed his short story.

Oh good! I'm glad to hear that, Monica. The Gaiman story was one of the two I bought the collection for (before it was chosen for the group read), and I thought it was really good, but, then, Neverwhere was one of my "finds" last year and I was So pleased to have another story about the Marquis! I really liked his The Graveyard Book, and also Stardust, but I didn't care for Coraline, and I've made a couple efforts but failed to keep going with American Gods. So, Gaiman's writing has been a bit of a mixed bag for me, but I thought Neverwhere was terrific.

I started reading it yesterday and I'm planning on reading it from front to back as well, with the exception of Neil Gaiman's story. I bought Neverwhere last month and SO want to read that prior to this new story. I've read American Gods and The Ocean at the End of the Lane and especially the latter one was amazing. I also listened to the audioversion of it, narrated by Gaiman himself, and it was freaking awesome. I can see why Tori Amos calls him when she can't sleep, so he can read her a bedtime story. /jealous

Anyhowso, so far, I've finished 'Tough Times All Over' and, like Janine, I can't wait to read the 'The First Law' trilogy, which I own for a few months as well now, but didn't come to reading it yet. I saw Patrick Rothfuss's raving review on it, bought the 3 books the day after or so, but didn't really know what to expect. I think I do now after reading Abercrombie's short story which takes place in the same world if I'm not mistaken :).

Gillian Flynn's story seems fun so far!

Anne: I have Neverwhere out of the library, so I'm finishing my current read, then Neverwhere, then Rogues. :) Thanks to the group for tipping off that it's a better order.

Oh, and I LOVED his audiobook of The Graveyard Book too. I could listen to him all day.

@Monica: Probably the best place to start with Joe Abercrombie is with his First Law trilogy, which begins with The Blade Itself. The non-trilogy books are all stand-alone, yet people from that trilogy often make cameos, so it is fun to have read them first. (There was a cameo in this short story as well.)

I've only read a couple Gillian Flynn books. Her characters aren't usually very likeable, and the stories mess with your mind. This short story seemed typical of that - my mind is officially messed with :)

Suzanne wrote: "@Monica: Probably the best place to start with Joe Abercrombie is with his First Law trilogy, which begins with The Blade Itself..."

Thanks, Suzanne. I have that one on my "to read" list.

Suzanne wrote: "I've only read a couple Gillian Flynn books. Her characters aren't usually very likeable, and the stories mess with your mind. This short story seemed typical of that - my mind is officially mess..."

This one was a bit odd for me as well. I'm still trying to decide if I liked it or not. It was certainly "different".

Also finished Now Showing by Connie Willis. (view spoiler)[Thick with references to old movie lines, and "twisted" titles...too much. If the theme is "rogues", then the story should be strong enough to carry that message to the reader on its own. I grew tired of the umpteen times she felt the need to call someone a rogue (scoundrel, etc.) (hide spoiler)] Not a fan of this one.

I agree on Now Showing, Monica. That is easily my least favorite in the collection so far. (view spoiler)[ I felt like her story was Very slight and she used references to movies and descriptions of teenagers milling around her movie-mall to drag it out. And, Yes, all the references to "rogues" became very wearing! (hide spoiler)]

@Jamie Glad to see I'm not the only one and it's also not just from a female point of view ;). He just has a really soothing voice, articulates very well and can tell the creepiest stuff in a really kind way.

I finished Gillian Flynn's story and thought her writing style was awesome. About 3/4 in the story, I got a bit dissapointed for it turning into a big cliché horrorfest, but yay for plot twists! ;) I agree on the odd part, but it was enjoyably odd for me. I want to read more of her now, but not sure which book would be most suitable. Any recommendations?

'The Inn of the Seven Blessings' by Matthew Hughes. A straightforward Fantasy story. It was certainly enjoyable apart from the weak female character. I already forgot her name again, yet do remember she wasn't busty enough to be considered attractive...

'Bent Twig' by Joe R. Lansdale wasn't really my kind of thing. It reminded me of a Lethal Weapon movie, with 2 mildy funny middle aged men fighting crime. It's not downright bad or anything, but just not something I get really enthusiastic about in general. I read some very positive reviews on the Hap and Leonard adventure series by people whom's reviews I greatly value, so I'm a bit confused about that atm. Is this story representative for the normal Hap and Leonard books?

I'm progressing slowly. Not that the book is bad, it isn't, but the audio just put me to sleep. I should probably listen to it while walking. ^^

I've finished another few and, again, will note my thoughts on them before they all get blurred in my memory!

The Meaning of Love, by Daniel Abraham, confirmed for me that Abraham just isn't an author whose work I enjoy (I dragged myself through most of The Dragon's Path last year before giving it up). It's not his writing style, and the story was okay. Seems I need to find at least One character in a story to be at least vaguely likable, or at least interesting, and in both The Dragon's Path and this story, Abraham failed to give me that. I know he's quite popular, so I guess it's just a case of author/reader mismatch.

A Better Way to Die by Paul Cornell. I only made it about 2/3 through this one before I gave up due to lack of interest. The disjointed style and the opaque characters just didn't appeal to me. For some reason it reminded me of Zelazny's Nine Princes in Amber, which I remember liking, back in the late '70s.

Ill Seen in Tyre by Steven Saylor. I found this rather intriguing early on, but it never actually Went anywhere, and if the Fafhrd & Gray Mouser references ended up being significant, I missed it. This really felt more like a "chapter" than a "story."

A Cargo of Ivories by Garth Nix. Given my previous experience with Nix (read most of Mister Monday but didn't bother to finish), I was surprised by how much I enjoyed this one. Mostly pretty conventional, though the puppet character was a fun surprise, but nicely done!

Diamonds from Tequila by Walter Jon Williams. I liked this one. More "mystery/sf" than I usually read, so it was a nice change of pace for me. I thought the premise was clever, and the protagonist was funny in a "hard boiled" sort of way.

Good comments, Melora. A Better Way to Die was a struggle to get through for me as well.

Now that you've read A Cargo of Ivories would you consider it YA?

While I do love Steven Saylor's historical fiction, I think he was out of his element here. I was surprised that he was included with this group of authors. The character Gordianus is central to his "Roma Sub Rosa" series. This did seem like it was just another episode he may have encountered during one of those novels.

Nope, Monica, it didn't feel YA. Pretty standard "sword and sorcery," which I do like. And, actually, I checked over at Amazon to see if he'd done any full length stories with the same characters, and what I found was Sir Hereward and Mister Fitz: Three Adventures, which in the description (provided, I assume, by the publisher, "Nix Entertainment") is specifically identified as "for adult readers." Obviously he's more versatile than I'd previously thought!

Has Saylor published other short stories? I wonder whether the story felt rather awkward and unfinished because perhaps he was flummoxed by the short story format? At any rate, I do like historical fiction, and I like ancient Rome as a setting, so I will keep him in mind when I'm looking for something along those lines!

Melora wrote: "...I checked over at Amazon to see if he'd done any full length stories with the same characters, and what I found was Sir Hereward and Mister Fitz: Three Adventures..."

Thanks, that looks interesting. Added to my reading list. (Nice to see a graphic of the puppet on the cover.)

I'm not aware of any other short stories by Steven Saylor. Good observation that he may not be comfortable with the format. He does have lots of rogues in his stories...much better than this. Plus his historical research/perspective is outstanding.