Brain Soup Goes Gilmore discussion

Austen famously called Emma Woodhouse an unlikeable heroine. Do you agree? Did you like her more or less as the story went on? Do you think her unlikeability impedes or increases your enjoyment of the book?

I never found Emma to be particularly unlikeable. It's been a while since I read it, but I guess the thing for me was that although Emma could seem shallow or unthoughtful at times, she always cared deeply about her loved ones and there was a warmth about her character.

Emma Woodhouse is my favourite Austen heroine, so I've definitely never found her unlikeable! I think my favourite thing about Emma is that her character growth is the most obvious, and that is what makes the novel so satisfying for me. Ultimately, Emma is a very lonely person - her wealth means that she has no social equal in Highbury; in a sense, she has lost her mother figure and confidante; and she has resigned herself to never marrying, because she knows that it would break her father's heart. Emma's heart is genuinely in the right place, and she really does believe that she is doing the right thing - it's just she doesn't have all the information when she makes these decisions and she recognises when she has done wrong and owns up to it.

It frustrates me when people view Emma as manipulative because that's not Emma Woodhouse at all to me.

I think the reader isn't meant to like Emma to begin with - that's how you notice her character development throughout the novel! I confess that I didn't like Emma as much as other Austen heroines when I began this novel, but if you compare Emma to Elizabeth Bennett or the Dashwood sisters, then you have that difference in social class which is perhaps what Jane Austen was trying to capture.
I do believe that while Emma can be seen as being "Snooty" and "shallow" that she is genuinely a kind hearted and loving person - she just needs the right people around her to bring out her positive attributes.

I've always loved Emma as a character and was surprised when I heard that Austen thought of her as a character only she would like! Emma, as a high class (rather spoiled) young lady fell into the trap of believing herself to be smarter than others, but instead of lording that over people she wanted to use it to help them. Watching her back down off the pedestal she put herself on and start to embrace the people around her is so heartwarming and charming, and she does it all fairly gracefully too (with a few trips and scrapes here and there).

Of course, having Emma as a friend or acquaintance would probably get overwhelming very quickly, but she would still be every bit as lovable!

I love Emma too, so I'm not surprised to see you all saying she's not unlikeable. Do you think Austen's comment reflects anything about the views of her society? Have things changed so that we react to characters in different ways?

I have always described Emma as loveable, but not necessarily likeable.

As a character, she is incredibly endearing. However, if I actually knew Emma in real life, I don't think I would find her personality appealing. (Or, at least, I would be wary to choose her as a friend.) In my opinion, part of what makes her such a great character is that she is very relatable. I can see a lot of myself in her flaws (though not quite to the same extent, or so I hope.) She also isn't perfect by the end of the novel--while she has had her eyes opened to some of her flaws, she still remains illusioned about many aspects of society, and hasn't really learned her lesson.



Felicity, I would say that our perspective on the characters has changed.

I think Emma's naiveté about the realities of middle and lower class lives would have been frustrating to readers in the 1800s. If the other citizens of Highbury would have been privy to her fantasies and endeavors, I think they would have grown impatient with her self-absorption. (Not to say that she is wholly selfish, as she cares very much about her friends and family. She just views the world through Emma-colored glasses.)

Today's readers simply have a different perspective on Emma's imagination. Sure, she gets carried away, but haven't we all gotten a little too wrapped up in our dreams at some point?

Emma is the Cordy Chase of Highbury. She's wealthy, which makes her socially superior to everyone. While this puts a lot of expectations on Emma, it also gives her a bit of leniency in other areas (e.g., her decision to stay single). I think that Emma is very much aware of her position in society and what is expected of her, and therefore she can be very charming and likeable when she wants to be, even when her internal monologue shows her feeling irritable and impatient with people (namely Miss Bates). A lot of her actions are motivated by loneliness (befriending Harriet so she doesn't have to walk through the village alone) or love (telling Harriet she will never marry, a decision that was made on the grounds that her father would struggle with).

(Sorry, on my phone!) I think while Regency England readers would've been frustrated and disliked her behaviour, there's a disconnect between the etiquette and social expectations of the 19th century and 21st century readers, so Emma's actions aren't seen as so rude or shocking, and Emma is forgiven for her behaviour more quickly/easily.

I think that most like Emma, because you want to like Emma. She is the protagonist of the story. Most people who pick up a book, don't think, "hmmm... Really hope I hate the main character." :)

But I think if you were to meet Emma and be a part of her world, the way Jane Austin was, you probably wouldn't like her. She is noisy, meddling, often excused for her behavior due to her society label, and had no filter between her brain and her mouth.

We see her and hope for the resolution or know the resolution before we began, so we can love her endearing quirks and screw-ups because we have the given hope that she'll learn her lesson and grow.

The interesting thing to me about Emma the character and Emma the novel is that I find my opinions changing every time I read it. The first time I read it, I had a hard time finding common ground with Emma. She is of a status where she will probably be more than comfortable for the rest of her life whereas I must work. The second time I read the book, I resented her for this fact - I felt like she was playing with other people's lives out of boredom.

However my perspective changed on my third read. Largely influenced by the BBC miniseries from 2009, I was more sympathetic to the struggles I didn't recognize as a teen reader. Emma lives a life of privilege and she knows it. I also think she is aware that some people only like her because they feel like they must given her status. Her meddling is her misguided way of wanting to feel involved, of wanting people to have a reason to like her for something she's done, not just for the family she was born into. Emma's growth, especially after the Box Hill debacle, shows her backwards thinking - she starts to help people to make amends, truly considering what is best for them and not just how they look at her. As a result, since her actions aren't self-motivated, people actually start to like Emma.

Of course who knows what I'll think when I read this for a fourth time :)

I've never read Emma, but I've seen both the BBC mini series and watched (and loved) Emma Approved. in neither of those adaptations has Emma ever seemed unlikeable to me, because on screen (and credit to the performers here), it was always quite obvious to me that she was acting out of love for the people in her life.

The book makes this decidedly not clear. I've not gotten far yet (though I am determined to finish the book by the end of january), but the scene in which Emma and Harriet receive Mr Martin's proposal, her arrogance is quite obvious to me. Yes, it still comes from a place of caring and wanting the best for her friend, but her complete disregard for the feelings of said friend for me trumps her good intentions. She is incredibly manipulative in this scene, no matter how often she claims that she is not trying to influence Harriet and shows very little concern for her friend's actual feelings.

She is also extremely rude about Mr Martin and refuses to acknowledge that she might have been wrong about him when Mr Knightley tells her how he has come to know the young farmer.

In general, she is rather arrogant and rude towards those "below her station", except when she can consider them her pet project, like with Harriet.
However, I do feel that she might just be a product of her time and station - her good and protected upbringing may very well have shielded her from a lot of experiences which may have helped her grow into someone more understanding towards other people's ambitions and wishes.

Either way, I'm looking forward to growing fond of her over the course of the novel as I grew fond of Mr Darcy. And I know Emma is a good person at heart and I can not wait to see her grow and learn, as I know she will :)