50 books to read before you die discussion

January group read from the 50.

One of my all time favourite books, excited to read it again.

I read this in high school, a lifetime ago. I checked it out from the library and it's sitting on my reading table, waiting for me to finish the long slow-going novel I'm in the middle of. If I don't abandon it, It'll be at least a week before I get to The Catcher in the Rye.

I would like to encourage those that have read this book to revisit it as an allegory.
https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/...

I would like to dip into my copy again and see what I didn't see. Salinger served and was "effected" by his service in WW2. Most people have heard that you should write about what you know. Salinger knew about WW2. This book is full of references that maybe lost to our generation because we are not familiar with the movies or culture of the day that he was writing to. But if you are curious it is definitely accessible.

So, I just read The Catcher in the Rye again. I guess a lot of people read this book in high school, as a reading assignment. I did, and I liked it. It has stayed with me, in more than just a vague way the way so many books do, for all my life. There were a few scenes that I remembered in some detail. It is this affect it has on its readers, who read it in high school, that makes it such a classic, I expect. I guess it's still on assigned reading lists.

Now that I have read it again, in my geezerhood, I think I see the appeal. It's a young adult novel, written from a high school junior's point of view. The first time I read it, I was Holden Caulfield's age; I identified with him. The language may be a bit dated, (there weren't any lol's or OMGs) but from my aged point of view, Salinger nailed it. Holden's manner of speaking, his expressive inarticulation, is what gives The Catcher in the Rye its appeal. I think it is not such an easy thing to do, to write that way. I've read my share of first person YA novels; none, that I can think of, comes close to catching the adolescent attitude, angst and nonchalance, as Salinger did.

Buck So, I just read The Catcher in the Rye again. I guess a lot of people read this book in high school, as a reading assignment. I did, and I liked it. It has stayed with me, in more than just a vague way the way so many books do, for all my life. There were a few scenes that I remembered in some detail. It is this affect it has on its readers, who read it in high school, that makes it such a classic, I expect. I guess it's still on assigned reading lists.
(view spoiler)[

Did you play http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=s...
When you read the carousel scene?

Have you seen the movie "The Thirty Nine Steps"?
Have you read the book?

This book is referenced in The Catcher In The Rye as well as David Copperfield. In fact the name Caul-field is from Copperfield. It is in the tittle of the book and the first page...where it describes a caul.

The book has so many references and the language immature and out of character for a boy and man that went to a private boys boarding school that it resembles an allegory.

The names in the story give it away...
Holden is the name of a car/company bought by GM to make war supplies.
Caulfield read the first page in David Copperfield
Titchner...when Holden is trying to get a good goodbye. As well as Zambezi name in The Thirty-Nine Steps. Greenmantle
D.B. Deschutes Bank
Jaguar top of the food chain and "an English job"
The "madman" Hitler..."years"
Christmas time (when we entered the war)
Allie = allies
Stradlater Strad-later. Violin later. He, Holden wanted to "play" the prostitute because it was supposed to be like playing a violin. America helps Germany build industry and then enters the war strategically at the end
Selma (a Masonic Lodge in North Carolina that lays the corner stone for the lodge in Alexandria, Virginia where we built our military complex. It was laid in 1922 and the lodge is Lodge 22.
Thurmer the first phony listed. It is the name of a chisel that "molds"....in the Masonic tradition.
Spencer - coined the phrase "survival of the fittest". He is the History Teacher because history repeats itself.
Ackley a reference to Romeo and Juliet. A reference to the priest that marries and then gives a poison to Juliet. So the church is used ....look at Holden's take on Romeo and Juliet. Also look at The Return of the Native Holden says he likes the least likeable character.
Ducks....was a slang name forhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DUKW
Also made by GM
Ed Bank-y drives a Buick also made by GM
Which he lets Stradlater who plays on the "god damn football team" football was a simulation of war.
Jane - a military supply catalog.
Phoebe - feeble. She get on a beaten up old horse and goes around and around and when there is a financial crisis Holden puts on his hat (its a people shooting hat, l shoot people). A reference to the book that every one would have read that Salinger was writing to because it is a children's classic allegory called Bambi
Read the History of this book and story line and you will see this "isn't your Disney movie book". Banned by Hitler.

Ok there are other ones like Jane's boyfriend Al PikeMorals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry
And Cabal

But you probably saw those.

And Jane's mother also drives a GM car.

The ducks in Central Park South? Or The Grand Army Plaza.

Phoebe and Holden take a walk through Manhattan or the financial district of NYC. The go to the zoo...and then to the carousel. Holden gives Phoebe her money to buy a ticket. She rides again and tried to Holden to ride with her but he doesn't. And when everyone runs for cover he puts on his war hat and laughs. But remember you can't tell them they might fall off their dead beat horse when they reach for the gold ring. You just have to let them....because after all

"Life is a game that you play according to the rules." (hide spoiler)]

You're right Buck, Salinger has a way of describing adolescence/ young adulthood with such clarity. Have you read Franny & Zooey?

Lisa wrote: "You're right Buck, Salinger has a way of describing adolescence/ young adulthood with such clarity. Have you read Franny & Zooey?"

Yes, I did read Franny & Zooey, right after The Catcher in The Rye, when I was young. I don't remember it. I just remember not particularly caring for it and being a bit disappointed. I thought I had discovered this great author, J. D. Salinger, who spoke to me - directly to me. Franny & Zooey wasn't like that. I also read Uncle Wiggily in Connecticut, but I don't remember it at all.

Cosmic

Smoke Gets in Your Eyes by the Platters was a popular song when I was young. I haven't seen Alfred Hitchcock's The 39 Steps, though I know of it.

That's quite a list. I admit that I did not pick up on most of that, and many seem a bit of a stretch. Those are the sort of inferences that a high school lit teacher might want us poor sappy students to find by parsing a book, things like those or others. I am a bit younger than Phoebe and at the age that I read The Catcher in The Rye, those connections would have been lost on me. They would have been lost on a boy Holden's age who read the book when it was first published.

Buck wrote: "Cosmic
admit that I did not pick up on most of that, and many seem a bit of a stretch. Those are the sort of inferences that a high school lit teacher might want us poor sappy students to find by parsing a book, things like those or others. I am a bit younger than Phoebe and at the age that I read The Catcher in The Rye, those connections would have been lost on me. They would have been lost on a boy Holden's age who read the book when it was first published. ..."

I wonder what year you read this book? Not how old you were but what year? I decided to look up "why is the Catcher in The Rye a classic? Something that this book had in common with another book that I have already mentioned, Bambi (note this is not Disney's version. This is the book the movie was inspired by but not true to) and that is that it was written to adults.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ca...

"The Catcher in the Rye is a 1951 novel by J. D. Salinger.[3] A controversial novel originally published for adults, it has since become popular with adolescent readers for its themes of teenage angst and alienation."

Now how was this book written to adults? And why is it being passed off like Disney's Bambi as juvenile? I believe it is because both are allegories about subjects that were not popular or may have been seen as conspiratorial or threatening. Both these books were banned.

I like this quote in the book:

"If you don't keep your yap shut, I'm gonna-"

"Why should I?" I said- I was practically yelling. "That's just the trouble with all you morons. You never want to discuss anything. That's the way you can always tell a moron. They never want to discuss anything intelligent-"

Page 44 and 45

You are trying to relate to this book as having been written to a juvenile. But clearly this was not the intended audience. The author was not writing to juveniles. So you have to look at the adult themes and the allusions that Salinger gives in his narrative. If you don't know them? Or do not interpret them the way that Salinger wants you to then you will miss Salinger's meaning, although you might have understood the book mentioned in its original intent. The two examples that I give are mentioned in the book The Return of the Native and Romeo and Juliet

There are also movies as well as movie stars that are mentioned or referenced in the book. One is Little Shirley Bean (a play on the name Shirley Temple and Bean

I believe that it refers to this historical character:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Bean

And Shirley Temple's first movie was called http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirle...
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand_...!
By Fox Films


This is an interesting movie, first for the tittle, because it alludes to the football game mentioned on page 2 of the The Catcher in the Rye and a locomotion cheer for OSS-in-(ham)burg[er]. Page 16 and 17.

I have read this book multiple times, as did Salinger because it took him 10 years to write it.

In the movie Stand Up And Cheer:
The President of the United States decides that the true cause of the Great Depression (raging when the film was released) is a loss of "optimism" as a result of a plot by financiers and bankers who are getting rich from the Depression. The President then appoints Lawrence Cromwell as secretary for the newly created Department of Amusement. Cromwell creates an army of entertainers and sends them out across the country. Much of the action centers around Cromwell auditioning acts in his office (with interruptions from janitor "George Bernard Shaw" played by Steppin Fetchit). At the end, as a musical production number breaks forth, Cromwell looks out of his office window and sees the Depression literally, instantaneously lift.

Many adults today find the book pointless, so they figure it was written for a younger generation. When taught in school it is not much better. I know a teenager that had just finished reading it in his class (his school is one of the top ten in the state of CA), he had never heard "Smoke Gets In Your Eyes" nor did the teacher play it.

But at the time Salinger wrote it and for his generation it spoke to the heart of what he was trying to say. They could read the book and get the references without difficulty because it was in a common language ...entertainment. movies and songs that were familiar to the adults of that generation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pshgQ6...

'Catcher' is one of my favourite books and I glean something new from it with each read, I agree with Buck in regards to Salinger's on point characterisation of teenage angst.
As for revisiting it as an allegory I personally don't believe in any of that or read in to any of it. I think a book can be over analysed and while trying to analyse every single word in each order it loses some of the (for want of a better word) simplicity that made it such a great story in the first place. Similar in style to the conspiracy theory Salinger (or moreover the author of Salinger novels) was in fact a middle aged woman etc etc.

Shermaya wrote: "'Catcher' is one of my favourite books and I glean something new from it with each read, ..."

That's great! What did you learn?

"Anyway, it was the Saturday of the football game with Saxon Hall. The game with Saxon Hall was supposed to be a very big deal around Pencey. It was the last game "

Did anyone watch the Super Bowl? Did you notice how patriotic and how much they glorified the military during the pre-game?

How do you think that football relates to war? What does the Saxons Hall reference?

Do you see a word play with Thomsen Hill?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomps...

Someone pointed out that Pence-y, is made up of Pence which is English for penny. Of course this has the least valued denomination. So that reminds me of maybe how much the students were worth. Not to much before they graduated, right? That was kinda the point old Spencer was driving home when he talked with Holden about his future.

Hmmm. So Spencer also contains the word pence and Holden contains the word hold, so how good a future could he have if he was only holding pence? ;)

I think you're dipping kind of deep for these, Cosmic. Thompson developed his 45 cal. sub-machine gun after WWI, but the military never bought it. It's famous for being used by movie gangsters. Equating Thomsen Hill with the Thompson sub-machine gun and through that with the military is a bit farfetched.

I greatly enjoyed the book - at first a little rough around the edges but I grew to love the protagonist. I disagree with most disparaging remarks about him. Its not a book to forget.

I am always telling my kids that i found another reference to The Catcher in The Rye.

This week it was upon listening to the book How to Read a Book: The Classic Guide to Intelligent Reading

http://www.amazon.com/How-Read-Book-I...

Chapter 1 page 4

He discusses active reading and gives the analogy of being a 'catcher'.
"The thing read or written is like a ball, is a passive object common to the two activities that begin and terminate the process."

"The art of catching is the skill of catching every kind of pitch, fast balls curves, change-ups and knucklers. Similarly the act of reading is catching every sort of communication as well as possible.

"It is noteworthy that the pitcher and catcher are successful only to the extent they cooperate. The writer isnt trying not to be caught, although sometimes it seems so. Successful communication occurs at any case where what the writer wanted received finds its way into the reader's possession. The writer's skill and the reader's skill converge on a common end."

You can read more of what active reading looks like at the link provided and the free excerpt given by Amazon.

The Rye was the primary grain a between Germany and France.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

And the war was called a phonie war because of the border between Germany and France.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

It has only been because i didn't understand this book that i started looking deeper at the references. The movies, the cars, three buildings, the places mentioned. Everything was pregnant with meaning. It took him ten years to write.

It is interesting that in the 1960's the book became to symbolize being an individual and not being a phonie. The back to the land movement was spawned from this book. But today they try to make us see Holden and not society as sick.

In a day where teens get off because they suffer from "Affluenca" we need to relook at the truth in The Catcher. Whether war or materialism we as a society suffer for profit.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afflu...

Somehow I left high school without having read this book. It's been on my "To Read" list for years, so I'm excited to join the January fun.

I am getting out my book today.

I wanted to write this sooner but i am just going to tell you something new that i had not noticed before.

Jane is
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane%...

Holden is
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden

Which is a
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gener...

That made
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DUKW
The DUKW (colloquially known as Duck)

Now Holden knew Jane before Stradlater
http://www.thestrad.com/

Holden gjves a metaphor of love making is like playing a violin.

Stradlater is an athlete. Why wasn't he down at the game. Why wasn't he in the game being pounded? Good question.

He borrowed Ed Bank-y car. It is a Buick a Buick is made by
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick

Buick, formally the Buick Motor Division /ˈbjuːᵻk/, is an American automobile division of the American manufacturer General Motors (GM).

Now after Holden kisses her allover. Feeling really sorry for her. She goes in and changes her clothes.

This is the part that i had notice before.

Can anyone tell me the description of her dress?

And what or who do you think Stadlater represents?
He is wearing Holdens jacket. What kind of jacket was it again?

How is everyone doing on this book?

Buck wrote: "Cosmic

Smoke Gets in Your Eyes by the Platters was a popular song when I was young. I haven't seen Alfred Hitchcock's The 39 Steps, though I know of it.

That's quite a list. I admit that I did n..."

I think when the boom was published a boys Holden's age would be very familiar with the words of that song. I also believe that the book was meant to be an adult book by Salinger, not YA. I think in the 60's it became more popular with a younger set. I think that Salinger could not openly write about the things he knew, so he cleverly included his message in double https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doubl...

Buck wrote: "Hmmm. So Spencer also contains the word pence and Holden contains the word hold, so how good a future could he have if he was only holding pence? ;)

I think you're dipping kind of deep for these,..."

But the military did buy it in WW2:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomp...

Thompson and Thomsen are very close to being a homophone.

So far I have found 50 topics to relate The Catcher In The Rye with
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambig...

It doesn't mean that out can't be read literally, but i have found it more interesting to read it the other way.