EVERYONE Has Read This but Me - The Catch-Up Book Club discussion

I generally prefer to go into books blind, as I feel like I can be too easily influenced and just hope for no expectations. Although with some books (as in this instance) when I do get some history it seems like it gives me a better insight that I wished I'd had before.

Only because I feel like there have been a lot of other biblical references in this volume, which I found interesting coupled with the title. Although I do think during Prousts time, religious teaching was probably much more prevalent.

My brain is not working today...I meant religious/church references.

When you get to this part towards the end of Sodom and Gomorrah, please let me have your thoughts. He rather seems to have tooted his horn through the last 3 volumes, but here is doing it just outright - no pussyfooting this.

He's talking to Bloch (whom he doesn't like) but who seems to ADORE him, as Bloch was at Madame Bonton's and they were all singing Marcel's praises. Which of course Marcel was quite glad as then it might come back to Albertine (who he just decided to dump anyway) that "I am a Superior Person." Likening it to a gentleman who does not recommend you for an award or something because the other people recommended are of such low quality that the gentleman doesn't want to tarnish you by putting you in such company. People who are not your equals.

This is why this certainly has to be a satire, correct? I wanted to throw up. Otherwise, I can only laugh at the outrageousness of it. The frustration I'm feeling at trying to understand this tome is ever increasing in volume(s). hahahahha pun intended.

Just read your review.
Nicely done. I am just past the 1/2 point he has spend about 30 pages not getting to the Verduins. Why do I suspect there will be another 150 pages of that party?

Abbertine and Andree my new nick name for Marcel is PM, Because calling him a snot and a cad is just not enough.
PM is french for Little -S

Thank you!
Yes, pm is apropos for him! I wish I could figure it/him out.
As I remember sitting outside in July, starting on this venture, wondering the same thing... where is this all headed???

Not sure if this is a suprize for anyone.
Given all the natter about who has which names and from where
Marcel Proust's full name was:

Valentin Louis Georges Eugène Marcel Proust

I may have seen this before but only recently paid it any attention.

On the off chance anyone is tracking here
I am almost at the 80% mark. I still think it will be the end of Nov before I finish.
I have book 5 on order and some idea of that plot.
How is it that we are supposed to believe he cares about Albertine except as a side show in his pants? I mean life.
He can never speak of her for 2 paragraphs except that he spins off into 2 or 5 page jaunts into others.
We know way more about Morel and Charlus on a date then PM and Albertine .

And he is jealous and of her friends and continually finding fault that they are all sorts of contemptible people not worthy of her time. And his friends are??? But then he’s falling in love with Andree, one of her friends. My head was spinning by the end!

If this volume doesn’t scream ... Marcel - you are a pm and a hypocrite!!

Phrodrick wrote:

Marcel Proust's full name was:

Valentin Louis Georges Eugène Marcel Proust

Perhaps the more names, the more of a pm you are?

If I and or we ever make it through book 7:
I tripped across this today. The back story is so compelling I may have to read for its own sake. If there is interest we can add it here or announce it as its own buddy read. You guys tell me, What makes the most sense?

Lost Time: Lectures on Proust in a Soviet Prison Camp

Count me in! I’m not sure if you listened to the Blacklisted podcast episode of “the tome” but they mentioned that book. I would read the book anyway as it relates to WWII and soviet prison camps. I think you already said that tho.

This is the link to the podcast episode if anyone is interested
https://www.backlisted.fm/episodes/10...

I never do podcasts. That was wonderful, funny and friendly.
Thank You!

I hate these people I hate these people, and knocking your head against the table. Irresistible!

And so forth.

Actually, to give credit, Ryan first introduced the podcast, so he’s to blame. 😁 I did love their excitement for all things Proust however and I’m going to give it a revisit to pump up the old enthusiasm before moving into the next volume.

The Monty Python Proust Sketch:
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3d...
Only the opening sketch.

One reason why I played that wonderful podcast is that I need a positive shot. I am in the 100 page count down, also still finishing classes. Somehow being this close is not giving me that scent of home rush.

Also I just learned that my copy of vol 5 may not arrive until late in Dec. Maybe the break I need?

I agree about the podcast. I listened before we started but it meant so much more when I listened again yesterday. I was glad to know my feelings were also felt by so-called pros in my love/hate relationship with the book. It reminded me of a stranger walking up to you at a party and noticing someone you know (a spouse, sibling, child), not knowing you know them, and they start telling you some wonderful story about them. Maybe they’ll put in some human bits, but inside your heart does that grinch thing and it allows you to have a full focus instead of the sometimes microscopic view which usually encompasses more faults than attributes. Which is how I felt after the podcast, it allowed me to step back and see a whole picture.

With that... I’ll have family staying in December for the holiday, so it will be easier for me to take a break until the New Year. If your book isn’t coming until later you don’t need to feel as rushed. I’m sure you’d enjoy a break from having classes AND reading Proust.

As much as I too hated 2020. It had a thing against all of us and clearly it was intended to be personal.
I still have a class to take starting n January and there are some nagging medical thingies.(excuse the technical language).

So 2021 need not do much more than happen to be better than 2020, When I will be back to my version of normal reading is yet to be discovered.

Phrodrick wrote: So 2021 need not do much more than happen to be better than 2020, When I will be back to my version of normal reading is yet to be discovered.

It shouldn’t take much, so here’s hoping 2021 can pull it off and bring some relief.

Struggling through the madness of PM in the last few tortuous pages.
What does this mean? Extra points: does it have to be this obscure?

"Moreover, the mistresses whom I have loved the most never coincided with my love for them."
One page to go.
I hope this nonsense phrases is a translation issue:

"Her disorder hair, in which he grey strands had not been hidden but were wound about her anxious eyes"

Any one who gets their hair wound up in their eyes is likely to have anxious eyes.

And finished. Ha!


I cannot help but fear for a 12 year old, girl or boy who getting to the end of Book 4, sits, dreamy eyed, the window and sighs to the moon dreaming of the day when a young, asthmatic Marcel arrives to initiate her/him into her/his first grand passion.

While the obvious analysis is that the books are a molecular level analysis of perception and its distance from reality; this is repeated variations on love, with the central model being variations on Swann's Love Disease.

Even before Swann, we get Marcel, and his creepy maneuvering of his mother for his little good night kiss. Then to Swann, the relationship for which all others build. And the dance between him and Odette. He was a man about town, as was she a free bird. Neither seeming to coincide. As with Marcel and Albertine now. Although we don’t see Swann’s depths, we see Marcel’s jealousy but his is not so robust, he’s maybe more passive aggressive making digs about her friends. Of the 4 has either of the couples had love between the two at the same time? There seems to be such a roller coaster and no two seem to ever be on the same tracks. Is that what is the meaning? Or are you asking something else?

Yeah, not quite sure about that anxious eye! Lol

I agree about the strangeness of Marcel and his set in their younger years. Sometimes I feel like I understand what Proust is doing, but sometimes not. It feels like I need to get to the end, digest it and then read it again to try to understand it. Unless there’s a Cliff notes version, that won’t be in the near future. Is being able to say “I’ve read Proust” enough though? Now that I’ve got a taste, do I just stop there, task completed, or actually better try to understand it?

Brenda wrote: "Count me in! I’m not sure if you listened to the Blacklisted podcast episode of “the tome” but they mentioned that book. I would read the book anyway as it relates to WWII and soviet prison camps. ..."

I recently saw that book on Goodreads and was interested in reading it too.

Phrodrick, if you're interested in another podcast about reading Proust to help get you through, here's another one: http://historyofliterature.com/185-ma...

Brenda already listened to it before we started, I believe. It's my favorite bookish podcast.

I did listen.
I am caught between something about "doth protest too much" and in overwrought.

Thanks for thinking of me and I honor that your intent was good.

My review is posted.
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

a tad worried I will lose momentum.I have an e book copy, ehn do others want to start book 5?

Great review!
I personally will wait until January to start the next volume. I’ve got a few things in the queue to get to and then will be busy with holiday shenanigans. Don’t let me stop your progress however. I’m still “reading” the audio, which I can spend a longer stretch of time with, so I should be able to finish by at least the 2nd week of January.

I would really like to add this to our discussion:
Lost Time: Lectures on Proust in a Soviet Prison Camp
NM that the back story alone is worth it, the author has a lot to say that I think will help us to understand what À la recherche is about.
It has a ton of what some might call spoilers, but for me they add some enthusiasm to keep me motivate and better inform my reading.
It is not that long.
Be advised, I will be making reference to it anyway .

I agree, I’ve wanted to read it as well. I’ve ordered a copy from an interstate library loan and with the holidays I’m not sure how long it will take. Reference away!

I just wanted to let you know one of my pups passed away unexpectedly and I am going to take the rest of the year off from GR.

Thanks

Losing a pet is as losing a friend and for some more. We have been through that . Peace unto you and yours and your pup.

Thank you Phrodrick. I'm glad for 2021!

With that...I've started the 5th book, The Captive. The rest of the books I've found aren't on audio, so I'll have to go back tot he hard copies. I'm guessing it will then take me a bit to get to the final end.

anyway... Happy New Year!

My copy was due Dec 29, BTW it was ordered in November.
It is not here yet. If I can clear one book on my kindle, I will start reading the older translation on it.

There’s no hurry. It seems to be books 1,2,3 and 4 redux.
I’ll say I enjoyed my break from Marcel. 😉😂.
I will probably space it out anyway as it’s already grating on my nerves at times. Small doses!

I’ve really peaked your interest haven’t I? Lol.

Just wanted to stick my nose in to say WOW YOU'RE STILL GOING and I'm impressed and amazed and happy to see it Phrodrick and Brenda ;)

Thanks Betsy!

Have read page 1
Again I recommend Lost Time: Lectures on Proust in a Soviet Prison Camp
Both the back story and the essays give hope, In people and in Proust.
What is giving me hope about finishing is that the last book is going to better inform us about what the whole thing was meant ot achieve.

I reserved a copy of Lost Time and it’s come in so I’ll pick it up in the next few days.

I just have such a love/hate relationship with it. Sometimes it’s just so beautiful and genius, and then It’s a flip to le PM, and his posse. So it’s a merry go round of swooning and eye rolls.

I’m glad to hear the last book is hopeful for a change of pace. I was already anxious at having to physically read that volume, so it’s good to hear it might not be so gritty to get through. I do give you credit for plowing through the reading, had I not had audio I might have given up long ago.

Four books and a few dozen pages into book 5, a Moncrief translation.

Two thought,
the trivial on:
The Marcel of the book is a loathsome character.

Perhaps the bigger insight:
Marcel the narrator is tell us a story that is present tense to us, but past tense to him. I think he knows that the yongert self he describes is a PM.
He is remembering things past, but they are new to us.

Things will unfold, not surprising him, but not known to us.
Maybe this is blindingly obvious, but it also raises questions about why is he so merciless on himself?

Am I the last person to ponder this issue of present tense narrator, narrating past tense self?

I’m not sure... I always rather thought he was a bit clueless.
In Marcel being the only strait character...why? And all his flip flops. And being a huge hypocrite. Most times I feel like he’s writing out of his ego. And if it weren’t for his really great descriptions it’d really be big bunch of pompous narrative.

I feel like I can totally understand that he’s been really sick and doesn’t leave his house much. He gets too stuck in his head and doesn’t have a broad perspective on anything.

I don’t think he gets he’s loathsome. Unless it’s all that satire again?

I don’t know. I don’t understand what he’s going for here. Besides being wordy. And he nailed that in book one.

It took me about 10 pages into book 5 to hate how he treats his mistress.

Otherwise you may be closer to where a reader is supposed to be.

It's confusing to me. He can root out the beauty of a flower, and detail so truthfully and beautifully the feelings of lost love or jealousy, yet he personally doesn't seem to understand the emotions. How can he speak of them so eloquently, yet he doesn't seem to grasp it personally?

We've heard about jealousy from book one. He complains how Albertine is jealous. He himself is jealous. He knows he's jealous. He admits this. But then at the same time, he condemns Albertine's jealousy like its the worst sin in the world, and doesn't acknowledge the he has walked that same path time and again.

He himself is in "love" with Albertine, but then he sways to Andree from time to time, and all we've heard from him is how Albertine is too free and runs with the wrong people. Never mentions his dalliances or circles.

It's maddening. I don't understand him!

I also find it really hard to listen to the constant comparisons between Albertine and his mother and love. You would think those two would be a different sort of love.

Glad to see you're both still plugging along. I have a little more than 100 pages left in GW and then I'm jumping into S&G with my Twitter book club.

Brenda, I'm impressed you're able to listen to Proust on audiobook without going crazy. I wouldn't be able to follow the winding prose without seeing it and being able to reread.

Glad you're still in the Proust game too Ryan!!

I feel the complete opposite....I would have quit long ago if I'd been physically reading them. The audio forces me to go on! I'd have also had a deep resentment at not being able to read other things for months on end. :)))

Winding prose is certainly kind. ; )

Winding prose is certainly kind

Was not that a Beatles song
The long and winding prose that leads me to Proust's Door(?)

😂😂

This is my synopsis so far of this volume...

I love Albertine.
I can't stand to be around Albertine.
I am jealous when Albertine goes out.
Albertine is jealous when I go out.
But I can't leave Albertine because the poor creature loves and depends on me because I'm so great.

Perhaps the greater lure of Proust is just being able to say I've had the stamina and fortitude to knuckle through it?
It can be so very frustrating.

This is hilarious.

I am going to ask this again in my review.
A proper test of a classic:
Does it stand on its own, abesent any knowledge of the author, his/her time and etc.

There is a thing called the Turing test. Can a person reasonably tell if they are asking questions of a human or a machine. The machines are starting to be that good.

I hereby propose the Space Alien test.
If a space ship were to land on Earth.
The being on board have learned most Earth languages from strong TV and radio signals broadcasted (no cable for example, nothing beamed or send out encoded)

They are desperate for things to read. (Space ships are very small-too small for books) and travel between habitable planets takes many, many years.

Instead of opening the doors and asking: Take me to your leaders
They Ask: Take me to your literature.

How would they respond to the best of our best.
I think , If they were given Proust, They would help us to invent
The Editor

I just keep crossing my fingers and hoping that there is some final escalation or realisation of why we’ve been told the same story in five volumes only with different characters. Can editing fix nauseating on this scale?
Wasn’t there a movie based on this? Groundhog Day?

According to my Kindle copy which has all the books in one but the old translation , I am about70% in. One hates to give up at this point.