The Obscure Reading Group discussion

I have to agree with Sara about East of Eden, but I haven't read much by Steinbeck yet. I did run across this today and thought it was the funniest thing. The dog ate his manuscript!
https://link.lithub.com/view/602ea7be...

Isn't that hilarious. I'm glad (for the dog's sake) that he took it so well. I would have been beside myself, but then I could never have conceived Of Mice and Men once, let alone twice.

My dog of 16 years (died, alas, last April) loved paper goods. He was especially fond of furtively slipping paper napkins off unsuspecting diners' laps in the dining room (a tablecloth serving as accomplice). He polished off napkins in a second.

We had to buy garbage cans with lids, otherwise he'd consume used Kleenex (all together now: ewww).

Was he above bank statements, bills, and once, at Christmas, a check? Not at all!

Roughage, I guess. But we loved him anyway.

I'm so sorry you lost him, Ken. Sixteen years is a long time to share with an animal--like parting with a family member. I have been there, and with my 20 year old cat, I am sure to go there again.

Sara wrote: "I'm so sorry you lost him, Ken. Sixteen years is a long time to share with an animal--like parting with a family member. I have been there, and with my 20 year old cat, I am sure to go there again."

Thanks -- and I certainly look at the bright side of things. Sixteen years, for a 65 lb. dog, is a good run. I think 20 for a cat is, too!

Oh yes, so true, and my cat isn't showing any signs of stopping right now. Who knows, there was a Siamese that lived to be 29.

I started Calvino today too. I’m still at the clever stage, very early in the book, so perhaps I should read slowly so the clever-ness doesn’t overwhelm. I’m enjoying it so far.

Sue wrote: "I started Calvino today too. I’m still at the clever stage, very early in the book, so perhaps I should read slowly so the clever-ness doesn’t overwhelm. I’m enjoying it so far."

I've started to jot down a line, a page, to comment on as I go. Otherwise the cleverness begins to blur together. This way, with the note, it's something more (or less) than just clever.

Not so fast, kind sir! That sort of thing.

I think I will add some lines to my status updates but it’s difficult to select them since everything is so circular.

I need some encouragement. I am procrastinating.

Try skipping until you find a chapter that intrigues you, then go back and see how he got there. Or read the book from page 125 and go backwards.

Sandra wrote: "I need some encouragement. I am procrastinating."

Here's what is working for me, Sandra: reading one part a day--either the commentary or the story. So far I'm finding the commentary part goes quickly, but with the story part, I need to read slowly, giving myself time to get into each one.

I didn't care much about the story that went with Chapter 2, but I did like the chapter 3 story. And tomorrow, I will read the chapter 4 story. I figure this will get me done right on time for the discussion. :-)

I've reached the halfway point, so am now going to move to other books until the first week of June.

As stated, my advice is to set aside at LEAST an hour to read. No dipping, reading here and there, that sort of thing.

Also, I found the story chapters (titles vs. numbers) actually got better and better as the book progressed. I genuinely wish two of them continued! In that sense, it's frustrating. But I'm sure that's just the type of frustrating Calvino had in mind.

Ken wrote: " I genuinely wish two of them continued! In that sense, it's frustrating. But I'm sure that's just the type of frustrating Calvino had in mind. ..."

Yes! That's the point. (view spoiler)[The Reader in search of the rest of the novel. (hide spoiler)]

Thanks. I will get on it ... tomorrow. The beginning reminded me of Kafka and I wasn’t ready to be totally frustrated.

Sandra wrote: "Thanks. I will get on it ... tomorrow. The beginning reminded me of Kafka and I wasn’t ready to be totally frustrated."
Sandra,

Matthew's comment, message 74 in the pre-reading thread struck me as the best way to read this book..."I think the best way to go about it is to think about how playful Calvino is. Don't think of it as hard-work, think of it as playing along in his game of words!

If you liked Borges, Kathleen, then this'll be a walk in the park for you."

This has helped me because I was initially all about taking it way too seriously but I get it now that I am several chapters in and finding it more interesting than I initially thought it would be.

Also, Ken, I like your new profile pic. Or, maybe you have had it for a while and I wasn't paying attention.

Thanks, Darrin. It's new. Being a shoestring operation, I ask my wife to be the "professionial photographer" for author photographs when new books are about to come out, and there's been no new book since Oct., '17.

As is evident on my face, I'm slowing down and aging, just like Grandma once warned when I was young, plucky, and scheduled to be immortal. Let's hope the aging process proceeds like the best wine and cheese, at least.

I will put the first discussion thread up on Monday night. That's Memorial Day, if you're a State-side type. Here in Maine, supposed to be coolish and maybe some much-needed rain on Monday. My daughter in Minn. says lots of recent rain out there, but here, it's been on the drought-y side.

Ken wrote: "As stated, my advice is to set aside at LEAST an hour to read. No dipping, reading here and the..."

Thank you for saying this, Ken. Calvino requires concentration and uninterrupted attention, and he's worth that attention. Books that require much of the reader are often the most rewarding. With dedication and focus comes clarity and insight. "Opening a path for yourself, with a sword's blade, in the barrier of pages becomes linked with the thought of how much the word contains and conceals: you cut your way through your reading as if through a dense forest." (from Chapter three).

Reading through Traveler this time, I'm noticing repeated references to order in chaos and patterns amidst entropy. That's not unlike the very experience of reading this book and finding order in its chaos and entropy. It's full of a myriad of dualities.

=====

“To gladden the reader with attractive interweavings of language is not the purpose of creative work. My purpose, when I sit down to a work, is not to gladden anybody, either myself or any other, but to make that work as perfect as possible. Gladness afterwards, when it’s done. … Gladness afterwards – and a lot of it. But a lot of tiredness too. This tiredness of mine when the work is finished is something I honour. It means that there was something to overcome and that the work did not come to me without cost. It means it was worthwhile waging the battle. That same tiredness I honour in the reader. If he is tired from my work, it means he has read well, and read something good. The reader’s tiredness is not devastating, but creative. Co-creative. It does honour to both the reader and me." -- Marina Tsvetaeva, The Poet on the Critic

Carol wrote: "Try skipping until you find a chapter that intrigues you, then go back and see how he got there. Or read the book from page 125 and go backwards."

I love this, Carol! Seems to be in the spirit of Calvino's playfulness.

I appreciate the helpful suggestions pertaining to a reading of this book. It suddenly became fascinating in the chapter “Leaning from the steep slope.”

Laura wrote: "Ken wrote: "As stated, my advice is to set aside at LEAST an hour to read. No dipping, reading here and the..."

Thank you for saying this, Ken. Calvino requires concentration and uninterrupted att..."

Thank you, Laura!

Yes, a "myriad of dualities" is a wonderful observation. One of my favorites? Reader/Writer. * * That's a powerful quotation, too. I'm going to use it for my upcoming composition course, certainly to reference this passage over and over as we work through drafts: "This tiredness of mine when the work is finished is something I honour. It means that there was something to overcome and that the work did not come to me without cost. It means it was worthwhile waging the battle." . . . . Ah, and now I'm tired! (gentle smile and sigh)

I've been reviewing some of my favorite passages from "Don Quijote" and have seen some of those as well as that direct reference to the reader and clever (sly?) storytelling. I'm also re-reading some of Borges' books I've accessed online as I patiently wait for libraries to open here in KC on Tuesday.

No more to report right now except the observation that the previous obscure books have all caught my imagination and expanded my reading experiences. True, sometimes I did not initially like the work -- finding respective ones "simplistic" or "quaint" per my biases which I'll claim as wisdom -- ja ja. Still, it was worth adding some supplemental readings or putting the text down and starting fresh later.

Way back in 2019 (which seems like generations ago as I type today), I came to this group because I wanted to learn new ways of reading and seeing the world. You all have helped me with these, so onward!

Well, we've done it. Waded through another of our 3x's a year discussions. I will leave the If on a Winter's Night a Traveler threads open for late comers who may still be reading. Then, after a week or two, I'll archive them.

Meantime, it's back to our own books and our in-between discussion area (here!). Our next meet-up will be October (a.k.a. "Published Before 1900" Classic Month). Seems far away, but time is a tricky thing. Kind of like Italo Calvino.

Thanks Ken, we did it. A chore in some places, but I did get it done. Now off to dusting off my paints and art supplies. One thing t a time.

Done good, Ken.

Thanks all, looking forward to the next one already. And another bravo for Ken for all his organising.

The next book is always fun to look forward to.

I am slowly finishing up but also looking forward to the 19th century. (I loved writing that and feel like a kid in school.)

The Fourth of July is nigh,
the Winter's Night thread
is archived.


That's your poem for the day. Here in Maine, where drought has been the rule, we have a cool rain falling.

Finally!

The irony is that Memorial Day weekend was wall-to-wall rain with temps in the 50s and now we're getting a forecast of mostly rain for the weekend of the Fourth with temps around 60. This after 5 days in a row over 90 last week AND an all-time record for heat in Portland for the month of June (climate change? WHAT climate change?).

Me, I'm not complaining. Every day's a holiday when you're retired.
And if rain/cool weather keeps crowds down, it's good. And if there are fewer fireworks, better yet. Along with most dogs and the loons and the lakes (that take all the junk from people firing off huge displays over the waters), I am not a fan.

More irony: America gives huge cash infusions to its arch-economic foe, Red (and getting Redder by the day) China by buying all these fireworks to celebrate democracy (which, by the way, is slowly being dismantled by states led by legislators in the He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named cult).

Two great page-turners I've read in recent weeks: The Plot and Homeland Elegies. If you want a good page-turner holiday, check 'em out!

AND finally, thanks to all participants in the Italo Calvino discussion. We've officially come of age here at the ORG, reading books we've all mostly agreed on and all mostly DISagreed on.

What more could one ask of great book discussions? (BTW, if you have an answer to that supposedly rhetorical question, let 'er rip. We take constructive criticism in these parts. Take it and run with it....)

In my experience with real life book clubs, the best and most spirited discussions are always when we disagree on books. We listen to each other and, hopefully, come away with a better understanding of why we feel as we do.

Ken wrote: "The Fourth of July is nigh,
the Winter's Night thread
is archived.


That's your poem for the day. Here in Maine, where drought has been the rule, we have a cool rain falling.

Finally!

The irony..."

Oh, you fortunate retiree!
I'm still working away, and this whole year plus months more have found me better with my classes. Still, I'd love to retire and spend two weeks at a time in my community libraries. I counted them, so I'd circulate to each about three times a year. Ah, I'm a bit envious in a good way. (smile)

As far as the book discussions, there was one I missed altogether, and the others were also sometimes a "tight fit." I'm always one to finish a book, noting that technical books, anthologies, or other collected works volumes I read slowly and bit by bit. In this and other discussion groups? Honestly, I grow tired when some books are outright dismissed or negated when the book itself was recommended by someone in this group. Part of the original appeal of Obscure Reading Group was the search for innovative, scarce, or unsung works. An added appeal was the challenge of reading what came along.

I even used this summer's reading as an example in my online English 101 course. I wasn't mean-spirited, be assured, as I set up the position of having an "assignment" and following through with reading it. There's so much to learn if there is a point of disagreement or challenge. When my students groan about "extra work" or not liking the assignments or even how "the writer is dumb," I remind myself not to fall into that same trap. Enough of that now.

I've enjoyed the books ultimately even if I didn't "get them" at first. Someone found each book valuable enough to read and share with others here, so I just reconfigured my reading when I hit bumps early on. When I couldn't participate in the Bronte discussion during the heaviest throes of my teaching-training-pivoting pandemic year, I didn't make wry comments or dismissive remarks.

I very well may need to realistically bow out from this group as new challenges come as I'll now return to campus and face budget cuts, lost positions, new responsibilities, on and on.

Thank you for these past discussions and so many recommended books in my physical and now electronic stacks, Everyone!

I think it was Ken who said a while ago on the Calvino thread something like "this is the Obscure Reading Group's most divisive choice yet, and I always like it when I read strong opinions from opposite positions." I came here to post an apology -- for nominating the book and then neither voting for it nor reading it all the way through -- but as I skimmed the archived thread just now, I was relieved to see that indeed some of our folks did love it. Okay then. I ended up fading in the middle both because the book really just wasn't for me, sorry, and also because life just got too complicated to sit and focus on it as it apparently deserved. All best to you all; looking forward to the nomination and selection process for our next group read. Happy summer; happy 4th of July; let's hope the fireworks out here in the very dry western U.S. don't set off a conflagration. Me, I'd just as soon they be outlawed. The delight not worth the risk...

Jan wrote: "When I couldn't participate in the Bronte discussion during the heaviest throes of my teaching-training-pivoting pandemic year, I didn't make wry comments or dismissive remarks..."

I confess, this intrigues me. Did, or do, you have any specific ones in mind, Jan? I'm not quite sure whether or not this relates to that particular novel, all 19th century fiction, your state of mind at the time - or something else - but I would be interested to know.

I came on here to write the sort of apology Yvonne has just done. After honestly intending to read this book, and joining in all the preliminary discussion, in the end I just wimped out. Not for me, I fear, or not right now. Perhaps a few decades ago, when time was not quite so precious ... Skimming the later threads now, I realise that my instincts were right, but apologise for my absence even so. I'm glad it had so much participation, and that you were able to have such a spirited and healthy discussion, even when the views were so polarised.

Jan, Yvonne, Jean --

I don't think anyone needs to apologize for missing out on reading a book or finishing a book or whatever. This is not a required course, just elective. And you can audit it if you want. Or skip class if you want.

And Yvonne, that holds true even if you nominated the book (frankly, I forgot that it was you). Life interrupts. That's what it does now and again. I wouldn't take it personally if some readers didn't love it, either. After all, it's the book they're struggling with, not the book's picker.

That's why we encourage selecting a book you yourself have not read -- so nothing is taken personally, as might happen if I nominated one of my most cherished books only to have half the readers not much care for it.

And fear not, Jan! I once thought my retirement slash library cruising days would never arrive, yet here they are! Tempus keeps fugit-ing after all. The older I get, the faster it seems to go! (Cruel, cruel world.)

Sorry not to join the discussion on the Calvino book as I have just now gone back to reading it. The style is fragmented. He makes some excellent observations on how readers "read" books. Since I've not read any of his other works, I can't compare this one to what else he has written. My favorite chapter so far is the one detailing the prisoner's arm sticking out of a window. It seems like the narrator in this section is being set up by the other characters to help a prisoner escape. And just as the reader wants to know more...Calvino decides it's time for something completely different. And what effect does this type of fragmentation have on the reader? I guess it depends on the reader.

Cindy wrote: "Sorry not to join the discussion on the Calvino book as I have just now gone back to reading it. The style is fragmented. He makes some excellent observations on how readers "read" books. Since I'v..."

Cindy, if you keep reading and want to post on the discussion itself (Weeks One OR Two), just message me and I'll be happy to open it up for your comments.

Cindy wrote: "Sorry not to join the discussion on the Calvino book as I have just now gone back to reading it. The style is fragmented. He makes some excellent observations on how readers "read" books. Since I'v..."

Yes, so many of the chapters seemed to end just before the resolution that we readers want. We read a short story called "Two Words" by Isabel Allende. Those two words are never revealed, so that becomes a point of discussion and even writing. Perhaps he set us Readers in the place of a "springboard" for discussion, and that was certainly the case here. I think you suggested some of Calvino's other works, and I'll be reading those throughout these next months.

Ken wrote: "Cindy wrote: "Sorry not to join the discussion on the Calvino book as I have just now gone back to reading it. The style is fragmented. He makes some excellent observations on how readers "read" bo..."

Thank you, Ken, I appreciate it. Hopefully, I can finish this book in the next several days.

Ken wrote: "Jan, Yvonne, Jean --

I don't think anyone needs to apologize for missing out on reading a book or finishing a book or whatever. This is not a required course, just elective. And you can audit it i..."

Ah, Ken, I agree. No apologies are necessary, and it's fine to participate as needed and desired.

I also agree that those better days are going to arrive. I trust that, and I also know that I'm going to continue to enjoy what comes. I'm simply turned about in a different "pivot" of this crazy, extraordinary time.

Jan wrote: "Cindy wrote: "Sorry not to join the discussion on the Calvino book as I have just now gone back to reading it. The style is fragmented. He makes some excellent observations on how readers "read" bo..."

Jan, I've not read the short story. The "Two Words" could be just a reference to the title. Or it could be the connection between the author and reader. I like how Two Words could be a play on Two Worlds. Or I could be way off the mark. Something else to add to my reading list. Thanks.

Bionic Jean wrote: "I came on here to write the sort of apology Yvonne has just done. After honestly intending to read this book, and joining in all the preliminary discussion, in the end I just wimped out. Not for me..."

There's no need for an apology. In fact, I learned quite a bit from you. With "The Tenant of Wildfell Hall" I missed discussions, but I enjoyed what I read.

Yvonne wrote: "I think it was Ken who said a while ago on the Calvino thread something like "this is the Obscure Reading Group's most divisive choice yet, and I always like it when I read strong opinions from opp..."

Bionic Jean wrote: "Jan wrote: "When I couldn't participate in the Bronte discussion during the heaviest throes of my teaching-training-pivoting pandemic year, I didn't make wry comments or dismissive remarks..."

I c..."

No apologies, Yvonne! I'm glad you nominated this book. Knowing you and your interests from other discussions, I enjoy your wide range of topics and interests. We've all been facing issues and adapting with grace and grit, and what we choose is the best decision we can make.

Cindy wrote: "Ken wrote: "Cindy wrote: "Sorry not to join the discussion on the Calvino book as I have just now gone back to reading it. The style is fragmented. He makes some excellent observations on how reade..."

Re-opened. I'll just leave it be for a few weeks.

Cindy wrote: "Jan wrote: "Cindy wrote: "Sorry not to join the discussion on the Calvino book as I have just now gone back to reading it. The style is fragmented. He makes some excellent observations on how reade..."

What a great interpretation from the title alone! Even jumping in with "Two Worlds" is a fun springboard. (smile)

This is the first story in Isabel Allende's "The Stories of Eva Luna." Allende pays tribute to 1,001 Arabian Nights in the very first pre-reading pages, and we all love that she created this strong character "Belisa" from her own name "Isabel" and made (and makes) her living with words (like her "bewitching" character).

I'm going to try to post the PDF, but if that doesn't work, I'll submit the link that holds it. Please be patient with me!

I think this should come through for you. If needed, copy and paste.
https://1drv.ms/w/s!At4IofbfDu9vgkWtC...

My Best,
Jan

Ken - actually this follows on a little! When you say "we encourage selecting a book you yourself have not read -- so nothing is taken personally", that is an aspect I hadn't really considered. Nearly all groups, I suspect, have a problem with polls, in that voters select their favourite book, rather than one which they would like to read during the next month or so :( In fact a nominations thread I set up only yesterday, with the careful question "Which book would you like to read with us" etc. immediately garnered a "I recommend x". So I strongly suspected that that particular nominator had already read the book, and may not even join in. There's an awful lot of "I think you all ought to read this" about polls! And when a poll is actually set up, I can often predict what will win, just by the book's general popularity. Whether the voter then joins the ensuing discussion is a moot point. Some just like to vote in polls, I think.

What you say here, about others perhaps not liking a dearly loved favourite of your own, might deter this a little. I must try it in one of my groups :) I never nominate a book I've already read, by the way, although I guess if I had a strong enough desire to read it again, I might. It hasn't happened yet; nor have I voted for any of the winners here yet! That's fine as the reads are always interesting, and your voting procedure is, I believe, unique. I'm looking forward to your next selection.

Bionic Jean wrote: "Ken - actually this follows on a little! When you say "we encourage selecting a book you yourself have not read -- so nothing is taken personally", that is an aspect I hadn't really considered. Nea..."


Interesting, Jean! I thought the poll technique was the most common way virtual reading groups selected a book.

The only other reading group I'm a member of on GR does a variation and nominates six books at once for half a year (important distinction being they have monthly reads and we only have three a year).

Members use the messaging system to nominate three titles (with brief description and link) to the moderator, who then lists all of the nominated books on a thread for voting. Instead of using GR's poll, though, people email their top three (I think it is) choices to the moderator, who then assigns a point value (maybe 3 points for a 1st place vote, 2 for a 2nd, and 1 for a 3rd) to each reader's picks. In this manner the top vote getters are named for the next six months or so.

It works, but I suppose many systems do, as you know with all your experience moderating. I have far less experience as a moderator. And, looking at the book titles nominated this past year on the ORG, I've never been able to correctly guess the winner, though I *have* been able to predict that some would face an uphill battle because, say, they are über obscure OR, say, a genre other than fiction (a book-length poem, say).

Intriguing stuff, in its way! Probably there's a science to it but science was right behind math in my historical resume of weaknesses!

Ken wrote: "Bionic Jean wrote: "I thought the poll technique was the most common way virtual reading groups selected a book ..."

Yes, GR encourages this by making it so easy to create a poll. And there are various ways of tweaking it, eg. as you've described. It can become overly complicated, and saying "Please don't vote unless you mean to read the book" as I've seen in some groups, doesn't sound very encouraging :(

Best to stick to what works within any group, I guess. If any group's membership - or number of members - changes drastically, then it might be worth a rethink. But "The Obscurities'" method works fine, because by definition, the books nominated are not going to be mainstream :)

Bionic Jean wrote: "Ken wrote: "Bionic Jean wrote: "I thought the poll technique was the most common way virtual reading groups selected a book ..."

Yes, GR encourages this by making it so easy to create a poll. And ..."


I agree. Too many rules works against you. Getting worked up because someone does or does not participate is counter-productive.

Read if you want. Let the book surprise you or disappoint you. And enjoy the varied insights of other readers that month, whether it's 20 other people or two.

Isn't that the point of laid-back, only-three-times-a-year obscurity?


Meanwhile, I'm happy to report waking to sunshine this morning after a four-day, off-and-on-but-much-needed rain. A brisk 48 degrees to start, too. Love it!

Two records were set in Portland, Maine, this past week. First we had the HOTTEST June on record (title of the record = "A Long Time"), and second July 3rd tied for the coldest temperature ever. Didn't get to check yesterday or today yet. Maybe more records for overnight cold.

Not that there's any climate change or anything. I heard as much (in a loamy, kind of muffled way) from some people with their heads in the sand.

Despite the weather, company is here, which is good and bad. Good because last summer we had so little company due to Covid. Bad because I haven't even hit p. 100 of John Green's The Anthropocene Reviewed even though I started it days ago.

Company can really slow a reader down.

On the other hand ...

Ha!

With apologies to William Carlos Williams:


The Type of Company

So much depends
upon

the type of
company

lubricated
with red wine

beside the Maine
lake