The Sword and Laser discussion

The trailer dropped for Apple’s adaptation of Asimov’s Foundation, and it looks spectacular.

https://youtu.be/kQbsIsroQg4

I’m a huge fan of Jared Harris, who is ideal as Hari Seldon, and the kid they cast to play Gaal looks perfect for it.

Oh, and Lee Pace. Has he ever been less than awesome in stuff? If Goyer doesn’t have him make a pie, dwarf and galaxy joke in a single line then what is screenwriting even for?

Wow, that looked cool.

It's been 25 years since I've read the series, maybe slightly less for the prequels. But, are they starting with Foundation, or the prequels? If they are starting with Foundation, they are just showing scenes from the very beginning, right? I remember a lot of other things happening even in that first book right? By the way, I'm not saying that is a bad thing for a trailer, just a bit more unusual in modern times.

I really should do a reread, I very much enjoyed these, and my memory is notoriously awful on the details for something I read that long ago.

Looks to me that’s just from Foundation. That first book is really short, being just a fixup novel comprised of short stories.

Woah.

I re-read Foundation from prequel to finish about every 5 years, when I've forgotten most of the detail.

I got Apple+ for free when I did a tech refresh but nothing grabbed my attention and most of what was thrown in front of my eyes required a new subscription to someone else's service. BUT, I'll reactivate for Foundation.

God please let it not be an abortion like bicentennial man

I am eagerly looking forward to this. I reread my paperback copy of The Foundation Trilogy so many times as a young adult that it came apart (and I read it at least 1 or 2 more times after it was split in 2, it currently sits "contained" in a ziplock on my bookshelf). I remember envisioning a film adaptation of it on one of my read-throughs but resigning myself to the fact that it was too epic in scope. I am curious how they will tackle this beast.

@Mer, I activated my free subscription to Apple+ explicitly to watch For All Mankind. If you have not checked it out, I think it is worth a look. I may be biased though, I work in the aerospace industry and applied to the astronaut program last decade, so the golden age of the space race is definitely my jam.

On adapting the books:

https://gizmodo.com/foundations-david...

3 more days.

Aaron wrote: "watch For All Mankind. If you have not checked it out, I think it is worth a look. ..." I watched 2 or 3 episodes and couldn't make an emotional connection to it. I'll give it another try this time.

Trike wrote: "On adapting the books:



I.. doubt Goyer understands Foundation, now.

Ah. I thought Foundation looked like a dumpster fire when I saw the trailer. This article explains so much.

"So you try to make sure that you cleave to the core tenants—"

Yes, I'm sure you will be able to charge rent. Perhaps you could cast David Tennant! Or, random thought, a good writer would know it's tenets.

"people tune in for the characters."

Actually, Foundation is a cosmic-scale fairly cold future history. Perhaps people "tune in" for characters. You could argue that's why people watch TV. It won't be true to Foundation any more than the craptastic adaptation of Childhood's End was.

As for diversity and gender bending: Asimov alluded to different races colonizing different parts of the galaxy, so there was no lack of diversity in the original, it just wasn't explicitly stated. A galactic capital would have representatives of all parts of humanity. Cast who you want. I do recall it was mostly a sausage fest, but there were some female characters. So there's really no issue with having a diverse cast and female characters. But to make an issue of it means you're looking beyond the material to make cheap political points.

TBH I'm more looking forward to Wheel of Time, and I couldn't get past the first four books of that series.

John (Taloni) wrote: "I do recall it was mostly a sausage fest"

😂😂😂

Almost zero women in the first book except a harridan wife and a girl secretary. The only female of importance in the second book is germane to the plot because she was mind-controlled. Sausage fest indeed.

And to be clear, Asimov was a famous lecher, whose behavior towards women was considered assault back then, nevermind these days. He exists somewhere between Bill Cosby and Kevin Spacey in terms of disgusting actions and overall creep factor.

Throwing in some women who have agency isn’t a “betrayal” of the source material, it’s a necessary correction for sexist nonsense.

I think it's out already.

I watched the first 2 available episodes this morning. I think it’s a solid show; not great but definitely good.

From what I can recall of the books, read decades ago now, they’ve pulled aspects from all of the Foundation novels and small bits of the robots novels to sprinkle throughout.

There’s much more political intrigue and action than I recall happening in the books, but that’s a good thing. Although some specific moments have been changed, (view spoiler)[Seldon is murdered rather than dying of old age (hide spoiler)] the overall story feels the same.

I have no memory of the cloned emperor ruling in threes at three different ages, child, adult, and elder, here called Dawn, Day, and Dusk, but it’s a cool idea. Feels somewhat lifted from the Sten novels, but whatever, it’s Lee Pace and Terrence Mann simultaneously playing two clones of different ages.

The reference to the “robot wars” is interesting, given what happens in later books as Asimov tied the two series together into one universe.

And the visuals are *spectacular*, really incredible. Full marks for that.

Yeah, the cloned emperor thing was made out of whole cloth, probably so that they could keep Lee Pace around even if they start mimicking the time jumps from the original books.

There's a part of me that's a bit sad that we didn't get a much more faithful 1970s BBC adaptation where it was just endless scenes of people in space pants talking in front of painted plywood sets.

Trike wrote: "From what I can recall of the books, read decades ago now..."
Ditto for me on pretty much all of Trike's post. I'm confused as who Gaal is. Did I forget this character completely? Like the clones, completely new? Or like Salvor Harden a different sex.

And where is my favorite, Dors Venabili? If this starts with Raych as an adult, maybe she's already faded into the in-between history, as she seems to have done with the prequel and 1st book.

For me Foundation is the original trilogy. It starts with just a whiff of Hari Seldon, then straight on to the First Foundation and its attempt to keep civilization alive in the outer rim. Then the Mule screwing with the effort, and finally the interplay between First and Second foundation. Early Trantor barely shows. It's a straight up take on the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire done in SF.

Later on there were a bunch of frippery prequels and sequels. Hari Seldon got at least two books, maybe a trilogy, I honestly don't recall. Then there's other exploitation books. To me these aren't Foundation, but the series seems based on them. Well, enjoy. I feel no need to watch.

Mer wrote: "I'm confused as who Gaal is. Did I forget this character completely? Like the clones, completely new? Or like Salvor Harden a different sex...."

Yes, Gaal was in the book, with a similar role -- mathematician recruited by Seldon, at least in part to push the Empire to arrest them both -- but has been gender-swapped for the series and also has a bigger role.

Also, I assume Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy was direct inspiration for (view spoiler)[the destruction of the Starbridge (hide spoiler)].

So far there's been less incorporation from the later prequels & sequels than I was expecting (well, (view spoiler)[there's a robot running around (hide spoiler)] -- it seems to be sticking with the original trilogy, but greatly expanding on what was described in the books.

Joseph wrote: "So far there's been less incorporation from the later prequels & sequels than I was expecting (well, (view spoiler)[[there's a robot running around (hide spoiler) (hide spoiler)]"

Yeah, I was kind of wondering if that’s meant to be (view spoiler)[R. Daneel Olivaw (hide spoiler)] who ends up being like 20,000 years old or something, sort of like how the emperor cloned himself here. Or was there another one that I don’t recall? Those later books like [book:Robots and Empire|76688] just don’t stick in my memory.

A bit late to the party, but Foundation is much better than I thought it was going to be.

It may be enough to keep me paying for AppleTV+.

I would rate it as my 3rd favourite Apple TV show behind "For All Mankind" and "Ted Lasso"

I really should start watching “For All Mankind”. I’ve been enjoying Foundation, and really liked Ted.

I am enjoying Foundation, I can say I have not read the books and sometimes, when watching TV series, that is the best way to go. I have really enjoyed it so far.

I tried For all Mankind....it was kinda boring. But I should give it another episode or so maybe? I want to like it, it a great alternate history concept.

For All Mankind is great. It does start out a bit slow, but it does ramp up the action and Season 2 is fantastic.

I'm excited for where they are going in Season 3.

For All Mankind's alternate history of where NASA progresses to in space is what us space nerds were hoping for in the late 60s/ early 70s. Imagine if all the money that was wasted in meaningless wars was spent on science and space exploration.

We shouldn't be getting excited about William Shatner barely (if actually) leaving Earth. We should have seen boots on Mars by now.

Tassie Dave wrote: "For All Mankind is great. It does start out a bit slow, but it does ramp up the action and Season 2 is fantastic.

I'm excited for where they are going in Season 3.

For All Mankind's alternate hi..."

I 100 percent agree. About where we should/could be. Consider Russia and China right now.

I wonder if the series will address China when it gets further along.

It has been all tension, fighting and Cold War with only Russia so far.

With Seasons 1 & 2 covering the years 1969 to 1983, that makes sense. But with Season 3 looking like jumping ahead to 1995, China could start being a factor.

To keep this on topic ;-) , still loving Foundation 3 episodes in.

Binged all of Foundation last night. The machinations are great, the parallels to our current political climate are there but not in-your-face, the story is twisty… but that last episode. Holy ship, spaceman! That very last shot made me literally exclaim, “What. The. F*ck.” In the best way.

I’ve consumed so much media I’m rarely surprised, and this managed to do that. Kudos.

Now we wait 2 years for season 2.

Are you writing from the future Trike? Isn’t there one more episode this season that airs tomorrow ?

He already calculated what it would be.

I am sure enjoying the series as well. I will watch it all in one fell swoop again when I don't have to wait for each weekly episode.

John (Nevets) wrote: "Are you writing from the future Trike? Isn’t there one more episode this season that airs tomorrow ?"

Oh, I forgot to mention my outlier ability….

In all seriousness, I legit thought episode 9 was the finale. That was one helluva cliffhanger to end a series on. Don’t know how they’re going to top it, but now I feel like there’s a whole bonus ending.