Literary Fiction by People of Color discussion

If anyone would like to lead the discussion for Such A Fine Age, let me know.

I will participate. What does leading require?

Tricia wrote: "I will participate. What does leading require?"

Hello Tricia,

Basically, to follow and monitor the discussion during the month and make sure it flows smoothly. You would set up a schedule the beginning of the month and ask questions throughout the month. Generally we open the entire book up for discussion around the 21st-23rd of the month.

Ok. I can do that.
By the way, for clarity. I'm Sean. My wife is Tricia. My Goodreads account is synced to our shared FB acct, hence the name Tricia Sean. If you can, keep an eye on it just to make sure I'm not messing it up.

Tricia wrote: "Ok. I can do that.
By the way, for clarity. I'm Sean. My wife is Tricia. My Goodreads account is synced to our shared FB acct, hence the name Tricia Sean. If you can, keep an eye on it just to mak..."

Ok, Sean. Got it! You can check the discussion thread for prior months to see how it’s done if you like. You can either mimic that format or use your own. It’s totally up to you. If you have any questions, you can ask me here or direct message me. Thanks for volunteering!

This pandemic has me totally discombobulated. What day is it? I was about to request SUCH A FUN AGE for the discussion and then remembered I own it. Geez.

Ok. Such A Fun Age is 28 chapters. I recommend we begin discussing Part 1 (chapters 1-5) after the 7th of June. We can open Part 2 (chapters 6-12) after June 14th. We can discuss Part 3 (chapters 13-20) after June 20th. We will open Part 4 and the entire book to discussion after June 24. How is that for everyone?

Looks like a good schedule!

As soon as I recover from holy-cats-it's-already-July....

Welcome to 2020, Side B. :-O

Tricia wrote: "Ok. Such A Fun Age is 28 chapters. I recommend we begin discussing Part 1 (chapters 1-5) after the 7th of June. We can open Part 2 (chapters 6-12) after June 14th. We can discuss Part 3 (chapters 1..."

Pretty sure you mean July...?

Yes. July. By the way, I read this in January. It took me 9 days to finish.

The book has been acquired by Lena Waithe’s Hillman Grad Productions and Sight Unseen Pictures to be made into a film.

Great! Looking forward to the discussion, Sean. This book was much different than what I expected it to be, or as it was publicized I thought. I’ll go into more detail once we start discussing it.

Tricia wrote: "The book has been acquired by Lena Waithe’s Hillman Grad Productions and Sight Unseen Pictures to be made into a film."

Oh, hadn’t heard that. Interesting. I’m already casting the roles in my mind.

I read this a couple of months ago so might have a hard time tracking chapters/sections, but really look forward to everyone's thoughts.
I don't think it's a *spoiler* but, for those that read/discussed The Water Dancer, I'll be keen on what parallels you might see between Corinne and Alix, if any.

tinaathena wrote: "I read this a couple of months ago so might have a hard time tracking chapters/sections, but really look forward to everyone's thoughts.
I don't think it's a *spoiler* but, for those that read/dis..."

Oooh, good one!

So did people discuss this book? I can't find the thread! Thank you.

Nina 321 wrote: "So did people discuss this book? I can't find the thread! Thank you."

Nina, it starts on the 7th. See schedule in message #7.

I read this a couple of months ago as well. Since I don’t have the book anymore, I’ll wait until the end to discuss (I don’t remember the sections). However, I would be curious about a comparison of this book and Little Fires Everywhere.

I’m looking forward to this discussion! I think about it as satire and it works for me but I’m really curious to hear everyone’s thoughts. See you back here on Tuesday!

ColumbusReads wrote: "This pandemic has me totally discombobulated. What day is it? I was about to request SUCH A FUN AGE for the discussion and then remembered I own it. Geez."

Hello everyone, same here, my pandemic brain is still playing tricks on me (forget to order the book in time but have now my first e-book and it works out fine. Never thought I read a book beside a printed one to be honest). Thanks to this group (!) I am motivated again to read and I am looking forward your thoughts on this book too.

Just a reminder: Tomorrow, we will open to discuss Part 1 (Chapters 1-5). That is pages 1-72. I will ask 2 questions to get the ball rolling but feel free to direct your focus and thoughts on anything that stood out to you.

I’m planning to join you guys. Won’t be able to get the book until this weekend. I’ll catch up.

I did the audiobook, can I still participate in the discussion?

@TL, of course

I thought I would start the discussion with 2 questions I found on book riot...
The opening scene at the supermarket was a smart way for the writer to illustrate everyday racism without any preamble. Did it succeed in setting the tone for the sociopolitical themes the plot would eventually tackle?

In the supermarket scene, the security guard’s suspicions are quenched when Emira calls the toddler’s white father. What does that say about the unfairness of people of color still needing to legitimize their existence through their associations with white people in social situations?

In my opinion Kiley Reid did a very good job to open her book with this unfortunately timely Karen-situation. It seems the author described all involved white persons in a very positive way to show their underlying dangerous behaviour towards Black people. Speaking of Kelley who filmed Emira and seems nice at first sight. He tried to convince Emira to use the video but we don't see his intention behind this clearly at this time.

As all these videos circulating through social media I'm always wondering if the Black person has given their approval to be shown in public and most of the time there are no further informations on this which I think is problematic. I am also wondering if these videos will serve justice or will it be just another form of objectification.

As Emira called for the white father of Briar it is her only way to cope with these racist situations and to get out off it as safe as possible. Other ways of copying strategies can be found at the beginning. Emira didn't want to play music with explicit content in front of Briar and feared she get fired. So we know there is constant fear. But the book is more complex as we are also getting aware of Emira's financial situation which can be seen as another systematic problem, divided classes.

In contrast to this we get to know Emira's best friend Zara who supports her because she understands.

I also think that Reid did a great job with the scene in the market. It's definitely something that we all see nowadays on social media that happen towards Black people. The incident also made me really think about recordings like the situation Emira experienced and the people like Kelley who record them. Of course, most of these videos are necessary but do they really help to serve the victim of the incident or does it fall into the social media obsession and cancel culture path? I That's a whole other discussion and I think Reid does a great job of bringing them up in that scene.

I also think she did a really good job of everyone's response to the incident. Kelley's pressure to expose the market and the Chamberlain's way of reassuring Emira showed that none of them really considered her feelings about the situation or saw the bigger picture.

I agree with Melanie's last paragraph about Emira's way of coping and her financial situation. Also, this book is really great in my opinion and I've been on an emotional rollercoaster reading this book. I go from being sad, really annoyed, angry, compassionate and sad again.

@ Melanie, my first thought was this was a Karen situation where a black woman with a white child (and I do think Emira's party attire) made her immediately jump to kid napping at that hour.
I didnt think of Emira calling Peter as coping (but that's a great insight). The security guard didnt only not believe Emira, but wanted the word of 2 year old Briar over college educated 25 year old Emira. I think Emira knew she needed the validation of a white person to get her out of that situation. Dude wouldnt let her leave but didnt trybto stop her once Peter arrives. This is the power and privilege of whiteness.
Socio economic factors play a part because if Emira had "a real job" she would not have had to leave her friend's birthday to hangout in a grocery store at 11pm with a 2 year old. But she needed the money.
As far as coping, on page 10 there was a slight significant moment where it says Emira asked a question she already had the answer to because she wanted him (the guard) to hear the way she talked. This is a mechanism familar to black people in white spaces where you subtly showcase how articulate and respectable you are for white people to know you are okay in predominantly white spaces. Emira was trying to show she belonged in this moment, with this child, in this store/neighborhood.
My opinion anyway

@Lotty, I do think there is a significance in the question of what the victim of viral racist moments want in that moment and what it does to them.
I'm of the thinking that the videos are neccessary because some would never believe black people's narrative without them. I think of the Central Park bird watcher recently... his sister posted the video because she wanted to show everyone what we already know. Emira was a little different because she had a secret and was somewhat ashamed of her current job after all her schooling.

Tricia wrote: "As far as coping, on page 10 there was a slight significant moment where it says Emira asked a question she already had the answer to because she wanted him (the guard) to hear the way she talked. This is a mechanism familar to black people in white spaces where you subtly showcase how articulate and respectable you are for white people to know you are okay in predominantly white spaces. Emira was trying to show she belonged in this moment, with this child, in this store/neighborhood.

Thank you, Sean, for adressing this part.

I found Emira to be quite wise and no fool on how the "system" works against her. Her codeswitching to be "well-spoken" and calling in the father are, to me, degrading acts of having to display or have someone speak to your humanity. There are a lot of layers of white supremacy in the supermarket scene alone, Kelley's lack of consent and poor intervention and opinions on what Emira should do, the security guard's refusal of belief, Peter as the saviour.
I couldn't put this book down when I read it a while back. Is it "pulpy"? is that a word that sells books short? I'm never sure.

@Sean - I absolutely agree that the videos are necessary. Tina said it best in her comment that his poor intervention is another layer of white supremacy. You're right about Emira's secret and her being insecure about her life. Makes sense since she does not have Instagram.

@Tina - I can't seem to put it down either!

What are everyone's thoughts on Alix?

I read this book months ago, and am glad we’re discussing it now.

I loathed Alix almost from the moment she appeared. I found her to be hugely self-serving, insensitive, insecure, calculating and terribly manipulative. And that’s just her interacting with other adults, never mind her elder daughter.

Hi all :)

I ordered this book to join the discussion and it just came today! I've only read the first couple chapters so far but... that supermarket scene made me so angry as I was reading it. I wish a "Karen" would!

What bothered me the most is the "karen" who alerted the security guard in the first place,  quietly dismisses herself once she realizes Emira is in fact the babysitter -  this is why  I would say "subtle" acts of racism are worse than overt,  because it is often not addressed, the offenders get away scot-free, and the victims often try to dismiss or make light of the situation.

When, at the end of Chapter One, shes alone in the bathroom and cries to herself I felt that.

Then I read Chapter 2  where Peter seems to make an innocent comment and then is labelled a sexist and racist. Although, social media has been a unique tool in holding those accountable, here we see it also at times gives too much energy and attention to the wrong things.

@Amanda, good point about the person who started this whole ordeal skates of without so much as an apology to Emira, Briar, or Peter. And you are right... Emira had to carry that and "be strong" until at the end she could he in a place safe enough to feel....

Sidenote: @Lotty, that makes me think of all the example in The Water Dancer where the Tasked (including Hiriam) had to not express feelings to survive their circumstance.

@Amanda, Peter's comment (in my opinion) wasnt intentional, but was certainly dangerous thinking. It was a) racist in the context that the only person who needed to ask parental permission was the black male student asking the white girl... the implication is that there is something wrong with that, so they better check with the white dad first. Why wouldn't the white male asking a white girl have to ask? On a gender not, why dont the girls have to ask his parents? Why do they have to ask a dad and not a mom, who run many households? Peter showed he had some bias in an unguarded moment, which happened to be on air.

@Amanda - yes, I did feel that Peter's comment was given way too much attention!

As for Alix, she represents everything in a person that highly annoys me and I cannot stand her playing the victim in almost every situation in her life that she brings up. I've known a couple of Alix's in my life, unfortunately. I also cannot stand it when she claims Emira as "her's or my Emira". She literally surrounds herself with enablers and the one person who does not give in to all her BS in Emira. Which consequently makes her obsessed with trying to win over Emira.

@Sean - yes it reminded me of that as well. I also agree that Peter's comment was not intentional but it did come from a deep-rooted dangerous place in his subconscious. Like a "slip"...

Hey everyone! I'm only a couple of chapters in, and catching up on the comments.

I agree with Amanda about that white lady at the supermarket. Hand to her chest, 'I'm a mom too', 'booty dancing'. I rolled my eyes so hard.

That's a really interesting point about filming incidents and social media. I think a lot of it depends on the intent. Yes, for many people, the urge to film is, in part, accountability. To shame them on social media, to bring awareness to racism, to hold racists accountable. Or with less pure intentions for 'social media clout' and to go viral.

But what I think gets overlooked is that it's also a method of prevention. When people start filming they almost always make it obvious to the racist that there's a camera on them, that people will be watching this. We're hoping they won't escalate the situation with so many potential eyes on them. You're reminding them of the consequences. Of course it doesn't always work, as we've seen with law enforcement who are confident in getting away with killing black people. But occasionally it does make them think twice. Many videos never end up on social media, many are desperate attempts to defuse or deescalate before someone gets shot. I'd much much rather no one was killed in these situations, than they murdered someone but we have a great video of it. That's cold comfort for grieving communities.
Just adding another reason for filming that's sometimes missed!

With the Christian Cooper/Amy Cooper situation, if I'm not mistaken, he filmed it himself didn't he? His sister posted it on social media later (presumably with his consent) to raise awareness.

From the very first line Alix reminded me of Caroline Calloway, if anyone's familiar with that infamous influencer/grifter haha

You are right about the Coopers.

And yes, you are hoping that the knowledge of a camera will curb the racist behavior but we have seen some dont care...like this guard.

@Tricia Sean I agree with you. He let his bias slip in that moment. As someone who is socially awkward and often does not know the right things to say at times, I can relate to saying something that comes out wrong and does not reflect what's in my heart. So when I read it my first reaction was that it was innocent. Also, I think the gender bias went completely over my head! Why is it that he says he should ask the father and not "parents".

@Lotty I agree with you, I do not like Alix either and I know so many. I find her very narcissistic. The scene where she purposely uses breastfeeding her baby on the panel as a trending moment for her brand irritated me.

@Lakshmi that's a great point, the threat of being filmed and put on social media is certainly used in many cases to prevent these things from occurring in the first place. It's actually sad when you think about it, that this is our only defense against racism and bigotry in many situations.

Hi all!

In thinking about the grocery store scene, I imagined myself there as a white bystander. Instead of videoing, what might I have done to offer support to Emira? She’s a stranger to me, but she is obviously being subjected to racism. Do I just watch so I can bear witness? Do I stand beside her in silence to face the guard? Do I interject on her behalf? Do I tell her I will stay and support her to the end of this interaction?

What do you think? What are some ways white people can be allies in the moment, especially when the racism is coming from a person in a position of authority?

Bethany wrote: "Hi all!

In thinking about the grocery store scene, I imagined myself there as a white bystander. Instead of videoing, what might I have done to offer support to Emira? She’s a stranger to me, but ..."

I think all of those things you mentioned are admirable in lending support. However, as we’ve seen repeatedly in these cases, if there’s no recorded version of the incident, the onus will be on the African American individual to prove their case.

@Columbus, Exactly. Video evidence is so powerful. I remember after George Floyd's murder, a friend asked why more attention went to that than Breonna Taylor and other situations. I told him, I think, the fact that people actually saw it with their own eyes impacts their feeling about it as oppose to someone else's narrative.
I would appreciate what Kelly did in that moment. Not only did he record but he did try to give Emira advice about her rights and told the guard how he was over stepping her rights.

I finished the book a couple of days ago. A really compelling read! I'll chime in later in the discussion so I don't accidentally reveal spoilers.

Rosalie wrote: "I finished the book a couple of days ago. A really compelling read! I'll chime in later in the discussion so I don't accidentally reveal spoilers."

Yes, I thought it was compelling, too. Deceptively so. It’s not the book I thought it would be but it’s the one I needed.

Bethany wrote: "Hi all!

In thinking about the grocery store scene, I imagined myself there as a white bystander. Instead of videoing, what might I have done to offer support to Emira? She’s a stranger to me, but ..."

Great thoughts/questions Bethany! I've taken a workshop on "bystander intervention" and we did a lot of awkward and embarrassing role-playing, but I found it really helpful in knowing how to step in to these situations. Based on that training, my own identity (East Asian), the location (middle-upper community, private business), and context, I'd like to believe that I would like to step in-between the situation and engage with the security guard, confirm what the accused has stated ("She says that she is her caretaker, do you have evidence to the contrary?" "To confirm, are you accusing this person of wrongdoing, based on what *x person* has stated. Do you know whether *x person* has a relationship with her?") and try to create physical space for the person being accosted. I would turn on and keep filming the scene if someone else wasn't. Again, I'd like to believe I would do these things, but it's hard when you're in the moment. In circumstances where I have faced racism (nothing ever to this extent) one of the most galling things is being made to feel alone or like all eyes are on me, the bright spotlight of being in the subjective wrong. So from my personal experience, I'd try really hard to move that attention away from the other person. My go-to tactic is to repeat the situation to the hostile party in a "reasoned" tone in hopes that they might see or hear the issues with their behaviour. Would love to hear other people's experiences if they're able to share

Tina, I think that's a solid strategy. Who lead your workshop?

Question: On page 15,
"When her phone pressed to her face and Briar's hands in her hair, Emira screamed,"You're not even a real cop, so you back up, son!" And then she watched his face. His eyes said, I SEE YOU NOW. I KNOW EXACTLY WHO YOU ARE..."

What does that mean to you? What are your thoughts on this moment?

@Rosalie and ColumbusReads, I am trying to temper my comments because this is my second time reading this. It's hard to keep my thoughts within the range of Part I when I have finished the entire book