Historical Romance Book Club discussion

Discussion thread for the First BOTM of August 2020. Please remember to use the spoiler tags when necessary! (Please see 'some html is ok' for instructions.)

Happy Reading!

Beguiling the Beauty


When the Duke of Lexington meets the mysterious Baroness von Seidlitz-Hardenberg on a transatlantic liner, he is fascinated. She’s exactly what he’s been searching for—a beautiful woman who interests and entices him. He falls hard and fast—and soon proposes marriage. And then she disappears without a trace…

For in reality, the “baroness” is Venetia Easterbrook—a proper young widow who had her own vengeful reasons for instigating an affair with the duke. But the plan has backfired. Venetia has fallen in love with the man she despised—and there’s no telling what might happen when she is finally unmasked…

Prologue: the love at first sight (far off in the distance!) on the part of the H, his extreme reaction & description of what it feels like, as well as the length of time he seems to be able to maintain this feeling, strikes me as a bit over-the-top -- verging to the point of absurdity. But I'm always willing to suspend a certain amount of disbelief in HR, and it's early days in the book, so I'll just set aside my reaction to this.

Chapt 1: (view spoiler)[okay, Venetia wants her sister Helena to meet and fall for the H, the Duke of Lexington. But in order to contrive a reason for the two of them to track him down and meet him, her plan is to get Helena to think she (Venetia) is interested in the Duke? Why? I mean, if I were Helena and I thought my sister was interested in a particular guy, out of loyalty to my sister I'd never consider the guy to be a potential romantic interest. I'm puzzled; I guess I'll have to see where this goes... (hide spoiler)]

I just read your spoiler and you have a good point! Through chapter3
(view spoiler)[ I have read through chapter 3. I know this is setting up the story. I really enjoy Sherry Thomas but the layout of the plot is a bit hard to believe. Venetia takes crap from her first husband for years....but acts on the comments of the Duke. Plus the Duke has been obsessing about her for years. I had a crush in High School but moved on... (hide spoiler)]

Hmm...I'm not sure if I want to reread this book right now. Maybe I'll drop in and read everyone's comments.

Very good point about Venetia, Merry, and you made me laugh with the comment about high school - so true!

Though I do have more questions, I am enjoying the read b/c Thomas' writing style really appeals to me. (Makes me wish I had the skills of a literary critic so I could analyze & explain just why & what I like about her narrative style!)

Meanwhile one thing I like is that she mentions specific historical events (ex. the ancestral history of the Duke's family name; the Darwin vs. Lamarck theories) to give context and substance to the world the characters inhabit.

As a side note I like this characterization of Millie and her situation:
Yet for years now Venetia had wondered whether Millie wasn't secretly in love with the man who'd married her solely for her fortune....But his heart, Venetia feared, would always belong to the woman he'd given up for the sake of duty.
Okay I've taken the bait, I'm hooked. Guess I'll have to go read her story, Ravishing the Heiress, next!

Cath wrote: "Very good point about Venetia, Merry, and you made me laugh with the comment about high school - so true!

Though I do have more questions, I am enjoying the read b/c Thomas' writing style really a..."

I felt the same about that comment about Millie. It’s a great premise.

Cath wrote: "Prologue: the love at first sight (far off in the distance!) on the part of the H, his extreme reaction & description of what it feels like, as well as the length of time he seems to be able to mai..."

I know what you mean Cath. This is how I explain it to myself : (view spoiler)[ Neither Venetia nor Helena have met the Duke so they don’t know how he looks like. Venetia only pretends to be interested so that they actually go to the lecture. I guess afterwards when Helena would meet him or seen him, Venetia would say he is not all that and she is not interested. (hide spoiler)]

Ch. 2 & 3: (view spoiler)[

- I'm surprised a rational man of science, as Christian supposedly is, would just lose all perspective and indulge in an emotional misogynistic rant about the evils of beauty, based on a bunch of assumptions and heresay. A scientist knows not to make assumptions. Does he not have more self-control than to do this in a public lecture when asked a fairly innocuous question?

But at least Christian acknowledges to himself that he lost it. So that's a relief that his character knows he acted out of character, lol.

I must say, tho', I'm surprised to learn this is the idea of Venetia that he's developed over the intervening years - that basically her beauty is a malignant tool. I thought his obsession with her was idealistic & romantic in nature? Did I miss an earlier cue that the nature of his obsession had changed? I'll have to go back and check. I guess now I'm supposed to believe that his obsession with Venetia is just some kind of sickness? Very curious...

- And it was also interesting to learn, via Christian's rant, about the rumors that had been circulating about Venetia, and that Venetia had deliberately spread some of those untruths - which has me intrigued. I want to know more about that.

- Regarding Venetia's sudden realization that Helena's not the type to give up on Andrew Martin if that's who she wants, that was just a bit too convenient - that it came on the heels of Helena's judgment about Christian. Didn't Venetia already know this about her sister, and why would it take a negative comment about Christian for this to be brought out? Is this a clumsy way to advance the plot so Venetia can just throw in the towel on her efforts to find another guy for Helena and we can move on to Venetia's story?

- How did Christian know Venetia was paying such close attention to him in the elevator when she never looked at him? I mean, if he knew her and her body language I'd believe this, but this seems a bit too hand-wavy and like maybe he just "knows" this as a way to later justify his sending her that ridiculously arrogant note in which he's making an assumption that this woman would even be interested in him...




... (hide spoiler)]

Good explanation, Petra! I like it; it would make sense.

Cath wrote: "Very good point about Venetia, Merry, and you made me laugh with the comment about high school - so true!

Though I do have more questions, I am enjoying the read b/c Thomas' writing style really a..."

RtH is SOOO good.

Sam (AMNReader) wrote: "RtH is SOOO good."

Now I'm wishing I could read it immediately:)

Tho' I am very happily enjoying this one.

Ok the discussion thus far really makes me want to get started. I intend to listen but am in the middle of another one right now. I may do a combination of reading/listening. It's been too long for me to discuss other than vaguely.

I finished Beguiling the Beauty last night! It was the first Sherry Thomas novel I have read, and I really enjoyed her writing style. It was very immersive and I felt thoroughly invested in the characters.

I know some readers do not like when authors share POVs of secondary characters, who are often featured as main characters in subsequent novels, but I thought Eloisa James did so really well in her Desperate Duchesses series and was interested to see how another author executed the writing device.

I do believe James's execution was more suspenseful, as the pause in the primary narrative was strategic enough to effectively increase my eagerness for the story to continue. Although it didn't heighten suspense, Thomas successfully used these alternative POVs to invest my interest in Ravishing the Heiress and Tempting the Bride, the following novels in the trilogy.

This next bit is my opinion on the ending of the story. I don't plan to expressly state everything that happens, but I don't want to give anything away or have my review ruin anyone's reading experience.

(view spoiler)[ I felt that Thomas effectively developed the romance between Venetia and Christian during their time on the ship, setting up a solid foundation for the climax and resolution of the novel. However, the ending fell sort of flat for me. After they landed in London, I was feeling anxious for our characters, cringing at the idea of Venetia's truth being exposed, but sympathizing with Christian's trepidation.

But Venetia's choice to "play the beauty" felt like an underdeveloped diversion from the ultimate resolution of the story. Although I understand why she made such a decision, without more in-depth rebuilding of the romance, I'm not sure the story as a whole benefited from the time they spent at the estate. I suppose when it was all said and done it felt more like a delay of the inevitable rather than an enhancement of the conclusion.

I did like how the consequences of Christian's speech were seen throughout the novel, as it demonstrated that the original conflict was more than just a plot device to bring our two protagonists together. The original choices made by our two main characters held significant weight and that is evidenced repeatedly throughout the book.

In the conclusion of the book, I wanted Venetia to express more of the thoughts we saw through the developing romance. Although her initial motivator was revenge on Christian, her desire to be recognized and appreciated beyond her beauty is an intrinsic motivator that is pivotal in her decision to pursue an affair with him beyond their first tryst. So, I wish that Thomas placed more emphasis on this during the couple's reconciliation.

I thought it was strange that Thomas did not also include an additional sex scene towards the end of the book, as Venetia and Christian's original erotic scene was depicted explicitly. It is one thing for all sexual scenes to "fade to black," but I thought it was odd that their first sexual encounter was fully depicted but no subsequent scenes were. Naturally, I thought a concluding scene would pointedly mark their romantic resolution. This isn't a big criticism or anything, just something I thought was odd! (hide spoiler)]

Overall, I really did enjoy this book. I'm eager but worried to start the next book in the series, as I fear Millie's story will be quite emotional! I would love to know what everyone else thinks!

Ok just finished chapter 4. Let me say that I thoroughly enjoy Sherry Thomas. I have read all her Holmes books. So anything I say is not going to stop me from reading an author I very much like.
(view spoiler)[ I was not prepared for the incognito hat. I thought she would use a wig or makeup. Also was not prepared for her to become intimate after knowing him for a quick 10 minutes. (hide spoiler)]

Merry - same about the (view spoiler)[hat. In fact at one point I got a bit worried she might leave it on while they made love, yikes! so glad to be wrong (hide spoiler)]

Ch 4 & 5:
(view spoiler)[Wow, I was surprised how much Venetia went all-in on the revenge thing. Even to the point of leaving NYC before Helena & Millie showed up. Considering how driven Christian and Venetia are by their respective obsessions, these two are a perfect match!

Hmm. Does each subconsciously bring out some kind of emotionally unstable element in the other? Christian remains so obsessed 10(?) years after he gets a glimpse of her that he likens it to an illness (a chronic condition he's learned to live with, as he puts it) and it affects his ability to remain rational when publicly discussing the trait of physical beauty during a professional lecture; and well, we've seen what's happened to V now all caught up in carrying out revenge fantasies, and she even admits her goals are demented.

Why does Venetia think that b/c Christian was okay with having sex in the dark and not seeing her face, this would mean he is the rare man to whom her appearance truly does not matter? Maybe this is the naivete of an upper-class woman who has not taken lovers? Because I think plenty of men would be fine with going along with a woman's request to keep the lights off during sex, or let her wear her veiled hat when walking around with her, if that's what it took to get her to agree sleep with them! IMO since Christian doesn't know her real identity, in fact it is not true that her appearance doesn't matter, b/c as a result of her masquerade, he doesn't know that the "her" in this case is specifically the woman he otherwise knows of as Venetia Easterbrook. The "her" in this case to Christian is a German baroness with a nice figure...

Looking forward to seeing where this goes...

(hide spoiler)]

Cath I think your points are spot on. I am hoping since the plot is laid out that the weaving of the story and characters will start to really shine. I agree with Madison about the writing style and I enjoy it a lot. They secondary characters in Thomas books are very much an interesting and important part.

Oh my - I can hardly take myself off from this book. I hope to finish it tonight so I can do my work tomorrow.
This is not a complaint but (view spoiler)[ How can a woman think she can have revenge on a man by sleeping with him? Venetia realized how wrong she was early, but still.
And yes the veil wearing thing is hard to believe and Christian must be very honest man to not sneak a peak while wearing his blindfold or somehow letting a light through while they are sleeping together.
Btw I love him. He is the nicest hero I have read about in a long time. I actually love the fact that he has this platonic obsession with Venetia. It’s something that someone truly nerdy would do. Otherwise he seems very healthy in his self esteem which I love. (hide spoiler)]

I am now going back to reading Chapter 12. It’s like a thriller for me 😁

@Madison, I actually read this series out of order (Book 3, 2, then 1) and so when this book turned to the secondary characters' POVs, I felt that actually distracted from the main story since I already knew their stories. I don't read too many books where I read the secondary characters' POVs, so if I had read this book before the other two books, I think I might have shared the same opinion as you.

I also agree about what you said about the ending: (view spoiler)[it was a little flat, especially after their blossoming relationship on the voyage to Europe. It wouldn't have hurt to have a love scene where Christian knows he's making love to Venetia and actually sees her. But, oh, well. (hide spoiler)]

I am up to chapter 7 and feel that the plot line has been laid out and I am just enjoying the reading now.

Missy wrote: "@Madison, I actually read this series out of order (Book 3, 2, then 1) and so when this book turned to the secondary characters' POVs, I felt that actually distracted from the main story since I al..."

Oh, that's a good point! I didn't think about how the secondary POVs would affect the readability of the books when consumed out of order or on their own. I can definitely see how that would be distracting.

I just started listening to this.

I was finishing another book so put this on the back burner. I am up to chapter 10. (view spoiler)[ I can suspend disbelief a lot/ but this just strains it too much. After 5 days and nights Christian is in love and asks the hat lady to marry him. I am just shaking my head. If he was 17 I could understand... The writing is great and I stay interested. Just having a lot of trouble with the plot. It's not her real name, you never see her face and conversations are limited pretty much to pillow talk. (hide spoiler)]

Okay, finished. This was a very uneven book for me. Most of the romance and certain aspects of the way Christian & Venetia were characterized didn't work for me. On the other hand I loved almost every scene that involved the protagonists w/ the secondary characters.

I struggled with, what seemed to me, the mixture of well-drawn realistic every day domestic scenes, and then what seemed like fantastical, at one point even farcical (view spoiler)[ (specifically Lady Avery's & Lady Somersby's meeting w/ Christian & Venetia) (hide spoiler)], scenes and scenarios. I couldn't quite reconcile whether I was reading a fairytale-type story, or one that was supposed to be more grounded in the real world (And that's even after acknowledging that I read all HR as a kind of fantasy genre, given the HEA expectation). So for me this story kind of felt like a hybrid of 2 or 3 styles, and that was quite jarring.

I loved hearing the other viewpoints above, and Merry I had the same reaction which you mention in your spoiler re: Christian's feelings at the 5 day mark.

I'll probably rate this book overall at 4 stars, just on the strength of how much I like Thomas' writing style and also b/c of the particular chapters that I loved so much.

But here's how I would break it down for now:

Prologue -Ch 2: 4 stars
Ch 3-9: 2 stars
Ch 10-16: 4 stars
Ch 17: 1.5 stars
Ch 18: negative 2 stars! :(

Merry Jewelhound wrote: "I was finishing another book so put this on the back burner. I am up to chapter 10. [spoilers removed]"

Yes I know what you mean Merry (view spoiler)[ The plot is quite a stretch with her being covered up the whole time. I see his proposition as a last desperate act of trying to hold her with him. He is most likely never going to see her again and is really obsessed with her.
That makes me realize that Christian's love or obsession with Venetia is deep almost on a soul mate predestined level. That's why he couldn't see her during regular season in London. She was too much for him. (hide spoiler)]

Cath wrote: "Okay, finished. This was a very uneven book for me. Most of the romance and certain aspects of the way Christian & Venetia were characterized didn't work for me.

My thought are this as I just finished the book. I rated 3 1/2 stars. This is an author that I really enjoy. I am in total agree with you abut how uneven the book was. I do plan on reading the next in the series as the secondary characters seem to hold a lot of promise. I also understand as was discussed above that if you read out of order it may not work.
I also agree it does seem the book was written as they were destined to be together. But I thought the way to put them together was a bit too contrived.

Darbella wrote: "Just started and was reading the acknowledgments. How cool is it that Judith Ivory's book-- Beast inspired this novel? Onwards."
Interested to hear your thoughts on the book.

Darbella wrote: "Just started and was reading the acknowledgments. How cool is it that Judith Ivory's book-- Beast inspired this novel? Onwards."

Very cool! I don’t think it mentioned that in the audio, unfortunately. I am glad to we read Beast earlier this year as the influence is pretty clear.

I am finished too and agree with many of the comments here. I like the secondary characters POV, but I do think it’s too much. I will be keeping my 4 star rating. Due to the focus on the secondary characters, the romance in the second half seems to suffer. It seems like we should have seen them re-fall-in-love more. The destiny theme is fun but it doesn’t mean we don’t want to know the story. It’s a bit too convenient. Still a lot of lovely moments that one expects from Thomas.

Merry Jewelhound wrote: "Ok just finished chapter 4. Let me say that I thoroughly enjoy Sherry Thomas. I have read all her Holmes books. So anything I say is not going to stop me from reading an author I very much like.
[s..."

Re:Holmes series...I think there may have been a crossover character briefly here. Isn’t female physician Redmayne a character in the Holmes series?

Could that be the "niece"? The two old gossips are the ladies I wondered about. Good catch!

Hi all, I'm new to the group and really enjoying reading all the opinions!

I rated this 3.5 stars - I mostly liked this book from the chemistry and conversation between Venetia and Christian when they were on the ocean liner. I understand that the 'no seeing her face' gimmick may have been unrealistic for some people, but I actually really enjoyed it and I found it really sweet.

The rest of it jumped around a little bit too much for me and, unfortunately, never returned to that magic chemistry. I found Venetia being such an unbelievably beautiful woman pretty silly and made me roll my eyes several times, and I personally wasn't that interested in the secondary characters - I understand that Sherry Thomas is setting up them up for the sequel books, but I don't think she needed their POVs to achieve that. This was my first of her books though and I enjoyed her style, so I look forward to reading more of her work!

Kathy wrote: "
I found Venetia being such an unbelievably beautiful woman pretty silly and made me roll my eyes several times -
..."
That was something I also noted. She used it almost like magic.
I did enjoy reading with a group.

Kathy wrote: "I found Venetia being such an unbelievably beautiful woman pretty silly and made me roll my eyes several times..."

Merry wrote: "She used it almost like magic. "

Agree. I really had a problem with this, and this is one of the points where I felt like the story had a fairy tale-like quality b/c like Merry says it really did seem like a magical element, or supernatural I could say.

One spot where I specifically hated this, was (view spoiler)[ when Christian is trying to discover V's identity and the French maid tells him the baroness was so beautiful she would cause riots. Apparently, according to Christian, there can be only one English woman that beautiful! And of course when he sees the photo w/ her parasol his suspicions are confirmed!

Now I know the author had to have Christian connect the dots but I think this could have been achieved without the ridiculous over-the-top characterization of V as the most beautiful woman in all of England. That's too much for me to buy, especially since I'm also supposed to embrace the idea that our intrepid H is a scientist, in which case he should surely know that beauty is a characteristic that is not defined by purely objective measures. I'd be fine with her being one of the most beautiful women or a very beautiful woman but not the most beautiful (hide spoiler)]

I totally agree with your opinions on the beauty aspect of the book. Many HRs require some sort of leniency from the reader's part concerning realism and exaggerated plots, as @Kathy mentioned with the hidden face aspect of this novel, but deeming Venetia's beauty as commanding and universal as Thomas did is borderline fantastical. In some instances, it felt almost like a hex or superpower.

I am starting this today, will be back with comments. I am already prepared to suspend my disbelief a lot.

Joanna Loves Reading wrote: "I am finished too and agree with many of the comments here. I like the secondary characters POV, but I do think it’s too much. I will be keeping my 4 star rating. Due to the focus on the secondary ..."

@Joanna...I agree with your comments exactly when I read this some time ago and seeing the comments now it refreshes my memory of the story. I loved the voyage scenes but it did go a bit flat at the end. However, I gave 4-Stars as it is a first in this series and was an enjoyable read and characteristic of Ms. Thomas books I believe.

I started reading and did not give up until I finished. That pretty sums up my involvement in the story. I honestly found it a little more believable than Judith Ivory's Beast even though the similarities were obvious. I could have done with a little more book after they get married, the ending seemed a bit rushed but that happens very often with romance novels. All in all, a 4 star read for me.
It honestly did not bother me that she was portrayed as the Great Beauty. Some women have that gift. I have a friend who is like that. When she arrived at my wedding everybody was suddenly silent and the musicians lost their place and had to start all over. I have had to console many young and hopeless suitors when we were teenagers. I suppose I imagined Venetia looking like her. As for Christian's obsession, perhaps it was a bit of a stretch but not unheard of. The way he went about it was strange though.

Ana wrote: "I started reading and did not give up until I finished. That pretty sums up my involvement in the story. I honestly found it a little more believable than Judith Ivory's Beast even though the simil..."

I felt similarly about this one, and I enjoyed it more than Beast also. At least the h&h were likable in this one, which I felt was not the case in Beast.

This sounds good. Trying not to read too much of the discussion because I’ll try to read this one when I’m off work

Darbella wrote: "Ana, I also love a beautiful heroine romance story. I enjoyed Beast more than this one, but I kind of loved the perfume lessons in that one and it was so different. LOL The part on the ship were my..."

Unfortunately, her HEA is still a work in progress. But I am sure she will get there at some point :)

Tammy wrote: "This sounds good. Trying not to read too much of the discussion because I’ll try to read this one when I’m off work"

You might want to have the whole series handy. I was lucky to find the second and third books available at my library (in online format so I only had to click) otherwise I would have broke the bank to get them on Amazon. The stories of the secondary characters are taking form starting with book one (Beguiling the Beauty) and I was just sooo curious. I am halfway through Ravishing the Heiress now and it's just amazing.

I have started to read this book. I am at present enjoying the story. I quite like Christian and Venetia.
I have read the Beast and gave it a 3 star.

Finished my read today. An enjoyable story 4 stars. I preferred this book and found both the characters more likable, than those that were in the Beast. Also liked the way the other characters were involved. With a little glimpse of stories to come.
I have the Book, Claiming the Duchess to read. Which is about Clarissa , Christian's stepmother. Will probably read the rest of the series at some point.

I started this book way late, after you all finished. This was my second book by Sherry Thomas, and I am not sure if she is for me. I read through all the comments and agree with many points. The writing was superb and engaging. I agree with Cath. I wish I knew exactly why I liked it so much. I did with both books and yet didn't enjoy the characters overall. I didn't like either Christian or Venetia, yet I found myself wanting to continue to read and find out what happens next. In the end, I was unfulfilled. We all make mistakes, but I thought these two just kept making them with dishonesty both with themselves and others until the very end when it flipped like a lightswitch and worked out perfectly and easily. I definitely do not plan to continue this series as I already don't like either of Venetia's siblings and not sure if I want to give another series by the author a try (although I do have a couple as marked to read.)