The History Book Club discussion

Very! But Kathy I hear you.

I am not a fan of Howard Stern; but he put up a video of a segment of his show which shows some of these people taped in action at various stores - it is reprehensible what they are doing to the poor store personnel. Due to crude and vulgar language being used by our citizens and Stern I cannot post it here.

These are the same folks who will not get the vaccination and by default will jeopardize everyone if it is not mandated. However, I am interested in hearing what others have to say.

Bentley, I don’t like him either but he also predicted the Trump meltdown when he was voted in. And he counted himself a friend of Trump’s up to that point.

When the Covid vaccines are first released, the supplies will probably not be high enough to mandate it for the general population. Since the vaccines are being fast-tracked for approval, some people may want to wait until more testing is done. I'm using the plural for the vaccines since many vaccines are being developed at the same time all over the world. It may be found that certain vaccines work best for older people, and others better for younger people. (Even now, people over 65 get a higher dose flu vaccine to achieve immunity to the flu.)

The government may be able to mandate Covid vaccines eventually, but not when the vaccines are first released. There would be too many court cases until the new vaccines have longer records of safety.

I do believe in vaccines in general, and feel that the normal vaccines for school should be mandated except for medical reasons.

This is a good article on the development of the COVID vaccines:

https://www.aarp.org/health/condition...

Connie wrote: "When the Covid vaccines are first released, the supplies will probably not be high enough to mandate it for the general population. Since the vaccines are being fast-tracked for approval, some peop..."

Very good point about the efficacy of the first vaccines

Connie, that was a great article from the AARP on the vaccines! I’m a big fan of the AARP. You will be too when you get old enough.
Regards,
Andrea

Andrea wrote: "Connie, that was a great article from the AARP on the vaccines! I’m a big fan of the AARP. You will be too when you get old enough.
Regards,
Andrea"

I'm already old enough, Andrea! You only have to be 50 to join AARP, and I'm way past that. That's why I get their newsletters in the mail.

Andrea and Connie, I'm also well past the age of joining AARP. Although when they started asking me to join at 48, I was a bit annoyed. Couldn't you at least wait until I'm 50? 😀

I am sure that you are all young at heart (smile).

You betcha, Bentley!. I’m even past the three score years and ten!!!
Regards,
Andrea

by Zondervan (no photo)

(smile)

I’m not sure what the discussion topic is this week but I found the part on the science of a virus (the swarm) absolutely fascinating and illuminating. I’m sure I didn’t catch all the nuances but I learned a lot about how viruses work from reading this part. I’m hoping to read through it again to retain more of it. Regards, Kathy

Kathy, I haven’t gotten to that part yet, but it sounds fascinating! Thanks for the heads up!
Regards,
Andrea

Chapter 7 was both interesting and very scary! The end of the chapter tells how quickly viruses mutate. It helps us understand how difficult it is to create an effective flu vaccine when the virus is constantly undergoing changes.

There was an good article in The New Yorker that ties in well with our reading for this week and next week about creating vaccines. This article dealt with the coronavirus, especially work at the NEIDL in Boston which has labs certified to handle the deadliest pathogens.

https://www.newyorker.com/science/med...

Oh my Connie, you hit a nerve!!! The New York Times Article was fabulous! Do you know how to cite a newspaper article?
Regards,
Andrea

Andrea wrote: "Oh my Connie, you hit a nerve!!! The New York Times Article was fabulous! Do you know how to cite a newspaper article?
Regards,
Andrea"

The article was from The New Yorker magazine website, not the NY Times. It's not a book, and I'm not quoting from it so I don't think any citations are needed. I'm glad you liked the article.

As we read about influenza in the book, I keep drawing parallels to what we are experiencing now. John M. Barry writes well about science so the general public can understand it.

Connie,my face is red! Both publications are great— The New Yorker and the New York Times! And I’ve never even visited there!
Regards,
Andrea

P.S. Here’s an attempt at doing a citation. Lorna, please adjust or delete as necessary.
The New York Times, JULY 24,2020
The New Yorker, July Issue

I’ve seen John Barry get interviewed and I read his opinion piece at The NY Times. It would be great if he would write a piece about the science of a coronavirus to understand it better. Connie you are right he writes so lucidly about the science that’s ‘it’s great. From what I understood, there are some significant differences in the mechanics between an influenza and a coronavirus. Maybe in a future article he will describe the mechanics of a coronavirus.

Connie & Kathy, this Barry book is so timely. For example, something I hadn’t even considered is the impact that a Pandemic has on Charitable Organizations. There was an article about it on the front page of this morning’s New York Times, “Charities Now In Need of Aid To Stay Afloat: services Are Imperiled as Pandemic Builds.”
Regards,
Andrea

Nicholas Kulish, “Charities Now In Need of Aid To Stay Afloat,” THE NEW YORK TIMES, Saturday, July 25, 2020

P. S. I still don’t know how to cite a newspaper article.

I hope doctors get results from the COVID testing quicker before flu season starts next winter since some of the symptoms overlap. Treatment would be different for the two diseases.

Andrea wrote: "Connie & Kathy, this Barry book is so timely. For example, something I hadn’t even considered is the impact that a Pandemic has on Charitable Organizations. There was an article about it on the fro..."

It's been heartbreaking to see people in their cars waiting for hours to get a box of food when we watch the news on TV. The charities can't keep up with the need.

Connie & Kathy, yes, there were “carloads of anguish” stretched for blocks in our neighborhood so that people could get tested for free. Some of the local charities here are really struggling — high demand and less in donation dollars!
Regards,
Andrea

Andrea, your browser should have an option to either to share or copy link. Usually in the new your times I go to share by mail and the link gets copied into an email. Then I copy the link and paste it where I want. That’s probably not the most efficient way but it works and I’m too lazy to spend hours trying to figure out the right way to do it! Kathy

PS I saw the article but haven’t read it yet.

Dear Kathy, I am next door to computer illiterate!!! I shall meditate on your above answer and see if I can’t translate it into instructions suitable for a five-year-old. Thanks so much!
Regards,
Andrea

Andrea, I use the goodreads app on my iPad and it doesn’t have as much functionality as the browser version. But if you can’t figure it out just post and I will run through the steps myself and try to translate. I use Apple not Windows so if you use windows steps may not translate exactly! Kathy

Kathy, at least we’re working from the same base ... I too have an iPad. I’ll sleep on your words and see if I can’t figure it out. Thank you.
Regards,
Andrea

One thing that folks can do if they are having issues with the app on iOS is to go to the website in a browser, such as Safari.

Thanks, Jordan I think I understand and can execute that.
Regards,
Andrea

There is an interesting discussion of the attempt to recover Spanish Flu virus from bodies buried in permafrost in Flu: The Story Of the Great Influenza Pandemic of 1918 and the Search for the Virus That Caused It by Gina Kolata. A shorter discussion of this is in available from https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-reso... To summarize, eventually, scientists were able to recover the 1918 flu virus from bodies buried in permafrost. In general, as @Kathy knows much better than I do, the virus would not have survived in most situations, but the virulence of the 1918 pandemic was such that there were mass graves even in the Arctic.

Gina Kolata

I forgot to introduce myself, I'm Jordan Jones. I started off my college career as a chemistry major, so I have an interest in science. This particular topic, the 1918 flu is interesting to me because it affected my family. As a genealogist, I have documented at least three and maybe as many as six victims of this virus within a cohort of cousins and my great grandmother. My grandmother lost her mother and her sister in two days in 1919. So, I've done a little reading on the topic.

I have read this book previously, and also the lighter weight Flu: The Story Of the Great Influenza Pandemic of 1918 and the Search for the Virus That Caused It by Gina Kolata and America's Forgotten Pandemic: The Influenza of 1918Alfred W. Crosby. Of these, the Barry book is the best written and the best at putting the 1918 pandemic within the context of medical history.

Jordan, the CDC article was very informative. Your genealogy project sounds fascinating.

This week's assignment:

Week Four - (pages 117 - 147) - July 27th - August 2nd
Part III: THE TINDERBOX p. 117

Jordan, RE Message 130, isn’t that absolutely fascinating? I had read about the attempt to “resurrect” the bodies, but was unaware that there was a book out on the subject. My TBR List thanks you.
Regards,
Andrea

by Gina Kolata

Jordan! what a fascinating family you belong to — and isn’t genealogy a great way to learn about history?
Regards,
Andrea

Jordan, thanks for the article. Very interesting and informative. Unfortunately, the gaps discussed in the article that it identified as existing are fully on display in today’s situation. Fortunately COVID-19 is not as deadly as the 1918 influenza.

Yes, reading that article and Barry’s book in the context of today’s news makes it clear that science may have advanced, but that even so planning and decision making by leadership and understanding by the masses stays pretty constantly dismal.

Kathy, how can you be so sure that “COVID-19 is not as deadly as the 1918 Influenza?” I hate to rain on your parade, and I hate to take up a negative, if not outright dismal, position. But there are those who warn ... “the second wave hasn’t hit yet” and “this thing could last ten years or more” ... and the 1918 Flu only lasted two years ... imagine how they would compare if COVID-19 lasts more than two years! Plus, where’s the vaccine?
Regards,
Andrea

Andrea, I wasn’t speaking of total number of dead, I was speaking of the % who contract it who die. It’s appearing to be 1-2% but less than 5%. The 1918 Influenza had a much higher death rate (not sure of % but I will guess between 10-40%) for those who contract it. Jordan can probably answer that. I’m not downplaying the current situation at all. As a matter of fact you haven’t had to listen to my tirades about how bad our leadership has been and it didn’t need to be so bad. I live n a state where the governor has done a great job plus the population density is low making transmission rates slow and a population who generally is following social distancing and mask guidelines (we do have a group of loud complaining recalcitrants here but fortunately I don’t have to deal with them often.)

To add to my post, lower death rates mean we have more time to get our act together to fight it. Not a guarantee we will but we at least have a chance.

Amen, to all you say, Kathy, but ... I happen to be from TEXAS ... can’t imagine a worse way of dealing with things than what has been done here ... as Yogi Berra put it so famously (He was speaking of baseball.) “It ain’t over ‘til the fat lady sings!”
Regards,
Andrea

Andrea, I know, it’s what happens when it gets politicized rather than treating it what it is - a virus - which doesn’t care about politics or economics.

Oh, Kathy, what scares me is what I’m seeing right in front of my eyes! The Texas Medical Center, which is the largest in the world, doesn’t have any beds available! There are several informative articles on the front page of today’s New York Times. To pick one:
Regards,
Andrea

Sheri Fink, “‘You Do the Right Things, and Still You Get It.’”, THE NEW YORK TIMES, July 27, 2020

Andrea, I know. I've read that article. I've been following it closely. I feel so bad for the people who are dealing with it directly. I have a friend who is an MD in Southern California who has been called up to take care of COVID patients. I know she has lost at least one patient. Her posts on Facebook are often heartbreaking. I also have a first cousin and his wife who had it in MA. They fortunately didn't get the really aggressive form so hopefully they won't have permanent damage even though they both have underlying conditions. It all seems so random which makes it even scarier. And we are going to be dealing with it for a long time. And although I believe we couldn't have avoided it totally, I also believe that the impact could have been mitigated if our leaders had done the right thing right from the start. I now think we are going to have to deal with the full blowback because not enough people did the right things early enough to control it in the US.

Here in the North East, we are bracing from a comeback since it's spiraling out of control in the South and will definitely end up back here. The town on Cape Cod MA where my mom used to live had an outbreak last week. And it's a very wealthy beach town. I'm sure it's from people who have a second home in Florida coming back for the summer (the "snowbirds").

We just have to take hope that eventually, an effective vaccine will come that can be given to enough of the population to mitigate the disease's effect. And we have to try to stay at peace within ourselves and recognize that we don't have control and take the actions we do have control of to mitigate its effects on ourselves and our communities. I don't mean to sound religious but we need to continually repeat the serenity prayer that they say at AA all the time....

Kathy, I couldn’t agree with you more! Of course for us on the Gulf Coast, to add insult to injury, it’s hurricane season! The Rio Grande Valley got to welcome Hurricane Hannah this past weekend. Prayer is just about the only way to cope!
Regards,
Andrea

Bentley, Lorna, and Vicki HOW DO YOU CITE AN ARTICLE ON THE FRONT PAGE OF TODAY’S NEW YORK TIMES, JULY 27,2020????????????? See Message #143, this Article is pertinent to today’s discussion of this important book, Barry’s book on the Great Influenza. THANK YOU ALL SOOOOOOOO MUCH!!!!!!
Regards,
Andrea
P. S. Sorry to be so shrill, but I feel frustrated.
,

Andrea,

Do you want to cite it or send the link like this:

‘You Do the Right Things, and Still You Get It’
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/26/us...

Kathy

I went into the iPad NY times app and in the far right corner it shows a share icon. I then choose mail and I mail it to myself. Then I go into my mail (on my Mac) and copy the link and in the safari version of Goodreads (on my Mac). I paste it in a new comment.

Hope this helps.

Kathy

Kathy, you are incredible !!!!!! Unfortunately my iPad and my ancient computer are not on “speaking terms.” Nor can I access my mail so easily. But, my husband (who is computer literate) will understand your instructions and show me how to accomplish what you’re telling me about. Thank you so much!!!!!!!!!
Regards,
Andrea
P.S. I was getting. very frustrated.

This book is full of surprises for me. In these chapters for this week, Barry discusses how cruel Wilson was in executing the war once he decided that the US would enter. And how much he suppressed domestic dissent. I’ve not read a specific biography of Wilson so may be that’s why I had never heard it before although I’ve certainly read about WWI in general and even took the great courses class on it. But I think all these things focused on the execution from the European angle. It’s a war that’s never made sense to me even though I did all this reading on it. And it also holds some family interest. I had a grand uncle who was drafted not too long after immigrating here and he ended up getting gassed in one of the trenches. Needless to say, he didn’t live too long after the war.