The Mystery, Crime, and Thriller Group discussion

This is the thread to discuss Presumed Innocent by Scott Turow. Leena is your moderator. A separate thread is set up for spoiler discussions.

Enjoy!

Hey
welcome all and happy reading.

I read this one a long time ago and I remember it being a terrific read. I also very much enjoyed the sequel, The Burden of Proof, perhaps even more than the original. I've read the first five books in the Kindle County series and I think the first two are the best. I was a little disappointed in the third and fourth books but I enjoyed the fifth book. They are slow moving at times though, and I don't understand why Turow feels the need to present an inventory of the furniture in every room his characters visit.

I also read it quite a while ago. A couple of years after that I attended a reading he gave in his hometown. It was a very friendly audience. Scott was a US Attorney in Chicago for some time, prior to going to private practice in a well respected law firm there. While with the US Atty he was one of the attorneys on the Greylord cases - judges and lawyers on the take.

I'm starting the "World Book Night U.S., April 23, 2014" edition.

I started it about a week ago and I'm about half way through. I saw the film years ago (the one with Harrison Ford) before I knew it was based on a book, but don't remember many of the details.

im so ashamed to say I've to still start reading. tomorrow's the day.

im so ashamed to say I've to still start reading. tomorrow's the day.

The first time I ordered the book, I mistakenly received a cassette tape audio book (I don't own a cassette recorder and I am not yet comfortable with audio books). The second time I ordered the book, I thought I was set until the seller cancelled the order, giving no reason why. So, third time's a charm. The third attempt to order the book was successful and it arrived yesterday. I've heard a lot of good things about this novel, and I'm really looking forward to this discussion. I will begin reading tonight (finally!).

Great Janice we'll read it together

This is my group reading and I'm really excited

I have just started reading the book It's my first group reading and I'm really excited

a group read is enlightening.. various perspectives and opinions.

I am 50 pages into the book and the first thing that pops into my mind is that their marriage is scary. Barbara is passive aggressive.

I read this a long time ago and am looking forward to the re-read. I still vaguely remember the plot, but I think it will add to my perspective now.

I agree time , age and life makes us relook and re assess our earlier perspectives.

Just got started with the book. Didn't know that a film was made of this book, but I always like reading the books first and then watching the movies second (because so much gets left out). And here I thought I had seen all of Harrison Ford's movies....well, now I have both to look forward to....book and movie!

Kimiko wrote: "Just got started with the book. Didn't know that a film was made of this book, but I always like reading the books first and then watching the movies second (because so much gets left out). And her..."

It was a good movie.

im ploughing through the book and I'm definitely watching the movie during the weekend

I read this years ago and really liked it. Looking forward to seeing everyone's thoughts.

I'm about 130 pages in right now. This is definitely a slow burn. Which isn't a bad thing I'm not bored per se but I am also getting a little restless to get to the actual trial and stuff like that.

I didn't know it was a movie. I will definitely check it out once I finish the book.

I liked how they keep referring to other older/newer cases.An interesting way to show how busy they are

Shanequa wrote: "I'm about 130 pages in right now. This is definitely a slow burn. Which isn't a bad thing I'm not bored per se but I am also getting a little restless to get to the actual trial and stuff like that..."

Shanequa, I'm also thinking it is taking a little too long to get to the trial. I think the fact that the narration is from the point of view of a lawyer (and someone directly involved) means that there is an overabundance of legal information/backstory. I'm sure the author is trying to make this seem authentic for the crime and the case and everything, but it is sort of a slow go to getting to the crux of the plot. I agree.

Shanequa wrote: "I'm about 130 pages in right now. This is definitely a slow burn. Which isn't a bad thing I'm not bored per se but I am also getting a little restless to get to the actual trial and stuff like that..."

Leena wrote: "I liked how they keep referring to other older/newer cases.An interesting way to show how busy they are"

I also agree. Our guy, Rusty Sabitch, lives in his head so mostly we are reading ALL of this thought processes without moving the story along very well. At least they can't do this in a movie, so it makes me look forward to watching the movie more.

This was Turow's first book of this type. His only previous book at that point was One L: The Turbulent True Story of a First Year at Harvard Law School about law school.

that's been acclaimed as a fabulous read too. Im shuddering to contemplate starting on that one.:)

@Kimiko I'm thinking of switching to watching the movie too. But i want to see how he brings in the twist. I truly hope he is one of those who give us a logical solution. Recently Ive read 13 by Steve Cavanagh and Ruth Ware's 'The Turn of the Key and both were super illogical and extremely disappointing. The build up was so large that they had forgotten about actually validating the claims. This is what's keeping me going on.

Truth be told, Im skipping most of Rusty's mental meanderings. :p

this is the first time te jury selection is so unglamorous. Its also interesting to see how the judge takes through and dismisses juror options through the many points they need to keep in mind viz.
1. Presume Innocent
2. Accused is under no obligation to explain his actions..the prosecution has to prove him guilty.
3. the role of publicity as a deciding factor.

Im now reading the actual court proceedings and boy what a turn about. Very subtle gear shift to heighten the suspense. Sandy is the true hero. What a defence!

I'm just starting the court proceedings. I find this novel a tad to slow for my liking but I'll persevere lol.

do . the court proceedings are worth it .

I agree Linda. This book is a little too slow for me as well. And I think that is impacting how I feel about the court proceedings cause I'm also there and I still find it slow. But I'm going to persevere too. I'm just at the beginning of the proceedings but it sounds like it gets better haha

I do really like Sandy so far.

you should. it has a killer ending. And after reading the newer authors like Steve Cavanagh and Ruth Ware who bring in drama and hype to the story without any plausible explanation, Im in awe of the absolute planning and execution of the crime. The slow build up of the proceedings give us a means to the end brought in by the author.
By the end I've forgiven Scott Turow for the slow meandering pace he sets through out.
Three cheers for a fantastic plot.

do persevere its worth all the pain :)

Starting today :)

don't let the slow start put u off. it's brilliant.

I read this years ago when the novel first came out. In addition to the comments here, I'd like to point out the skill with which Turow hid a major fact from the reader even though the point of view character had full knowledge of it. I think most of you are far enough along in the book that this wouldn't be a spoiler, but just in case, close this comment before I say what I mean:

The author doesn't reveal this until he's good and ready: the dead woman and the point of view character were lovers. I've never seen that kind of withholding before or since.

I agree David, I've not mentioned it so that it can be a real surprise to those who haven't finished. That's the icing on a fantastic cake.

I would also like to mention that once the court proceedings begin we can't put the book down.

Turow obviously brings his experience of court rooms to the party, it really is a compelling read once we watch it all unfold as each piece of evidence is presented and discussed. I'm nearly done and so glad I had this opportunity to reread it.

During the whole book the atmosphere felt dark and claustrophobic to me... I wonder if this was the author's intent, because it occurs to me that having to live inside the narrator's mind and stream of consciousness it would feel like that.

Just finished the book. The only part I did like was the actual courtroom drama as each prosecution witness was being questioned.Sandy Stern (defense attorney) was the only character I actually liked in the whole book.

I felt the majority of this book was too much being inside Rusty's head. I would not classify this as a legal thriller....it was rather long and plodding to me. Even the ending was anti-climatic. I no longer have any desire to watch the movie either.

I finished the book probably about a week ago and wanted to go back and watch the film before posting my thoughts. I agree with Kimiko in that I think that there was too much plodding and diversions in the book. It takes too long for the big part of the plot to arrive and I thought there was a little too much in there (politics, elections, etc) that could have been edited out. I did feel like the second half of the novel things pick up and there are some intense moments in court (and outside of court). I also thought the "big reveal" was done in a "ho hum" kind of way. Overall, not bad, but not my favorite legal thriller.

I actually thought the film did a better job of being focused and probably liked it slightly better than the book (of course they changed a few things, but it was fairly similar to the book).

Anyhow, I'm glad I read this (as I've been wanting to read it for years). So thanks for choosing this one. It was fun keeping up with all the posts and thoughts.

I read this years ago. I had forgotten about this author. I may have to revisit him.

Just finished it, pretty average. The pacing was a definite problem, I would not be surprised if some readers quit before the trial even starts. Turow's prose simply is not good enough to grip the reader at the setup stage. The structure had some issues, I go into more detail in the spoiler thread, but the ending was good. It shows Turow is a lawyer rather than a writer, he really brings out the subtleties in the trial testimony and he has a wonderful control on the procedural aspects of that story but characterization and prose is lacking.

If Turow's writing was streamlined I would gladly read him again, but I saw the second book in the series is also 500 pages long. So this might remain my only Turow.

My Review https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

David wrote: "I read this years ago when the novel first came out. In addition to the comments here, I'd like to point out the skill with which Turow hid a major fact from the reader even though the point of view character had full knowledge of it..."

That is actually one of the least skillful things a writer can do, it is almost universally frowned upon. It is like saying this singer is so good, see how he sings completely off key. In a first person narrative making a narrator hide facts without an in story reason is an amateurish mistake, unless the author is going for the gimmicky unreliable narrator trope which Turow was not doing here. I understand the need of it from the pacing perspective but it does not make any sense from the character's perspective. And it was not even the most egregious example of the same in this book.

This is my first book by this author and at 8% in i know it will be my last. The author seems to be one of those writers who uses more words than are necessary,making the story much more complicated than it needs to be,i haven't got a clue what's going on. Perhaps if he had left out the politics and just concentrated on the murder he may have held my attention.

the politics is a major contributor to understanding the victim and all the players.

Of course he is wordy - he's a lawyer!