Dickensians! discussion

The Lazy Tour Of Two Idle Apprentices
56 views
Dickens Travelogues > The Lazy Tour of Two Idle Apprentices (hosted by Ashley) - 4th Summer Read 2020

Comments Showing 1-50 of 75 (75 new)    post a comment »
« previous 1

message 1: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Apr 03, 2025 11:42AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8394 comments Mod
Here is the thread for our fourth "Dickensians!" Summer Read, which is of the short story The Lazy Tour Of Two Idle Apprentices, a collaborative work by Charles Dickens and Wilkie Collins

This read is from August 22nd - 31st, and will be hosted by Ashley :)

Please allow Ashley to comment first, everyone! Thanks :)


message 2: by Ashley (last edited Aug 22, 2020 01:29PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Ashley Jacobson | 95 comments We start with two lazy apprentices who have left their employer. Thomas Idle is what I would actually consider idle, and tries to be as lazy as possible. Francis Goodchild will do anything, including work, to make sure he is idle. I’m not sure what his definition of that word is, but it doesn’t look like real idleness.

They are truly idle in London, until Goodchild convinces Idle it’s time to move on. They take a train to the Lake District, where Idle sees a mountain and decides climbing it will lead to idleness. On the hike, they have many trials, including pouring rain, which Goodchild faces well and Idle struggles though, because he is following Francis. On the way down, the compass which the landlord is using breaks, and they are now lost, forced to hike blindly while trying to avoid the Black Arches. Eventually they make it back to the inn, but not until Idle hurts his ankle.

Chapter 2 begins with a carriage ride to a new town, where the travelers are forced to rest because of Idle’s ankle. Francis sits at the window describing what he sees, as Tom continues to ask “Brother Francis, Brother Francis, what more...?”

The next day is rough on Idle’s ankle, and they seek a doctor on arrival at their next destination. The doctor relates a creepy story about a man who cannot find lodging for the night. This man (Arthur) finally find a place with a bed, but the room is shared with another man, whom Arthur realizes is dead as soon as he sees him. Having no other choice, Arthur stays e night, but is unable to sleep. His curiosity gets the best of him and he goes to look again at the dead man. It is then he realizes that the body has moved. The doctor who is telling the story is the doctor whom Arthur calls to examine the body. They find what is not dead and upon awaking, find this man is a medical student, with no father, who wishes to remain unknown. He asks Arthur and the doctor to keep the experience to themselves.

The doctor then tells a follow up story about how Arthur marries the woman whom the medical student had predicted he would marry. She was preciously engaged, but told Arthur it was broken off in a respectable way. Not long after the wedding, she gets sick. Before she dies, she tells the doctor that her ex-fiancée basically disappeared and stopped contacting her, which is the real reason why the engagement ended.

Then, we hear the creepy story of the doctors assistant, whom the doctor thinks may be related to his patient at the inn and/or the ex-fiancée of Arthur’s late wife. He looks remarkably like the medical student did upon waking up “from the dead.” The chapter ends with a creepy hand opening the door of the room they are all in.

Chapter 3........

Francis convinces Thomas a trip to the sea would be good for his leg. When they arrive, Tom jokes that Francis is trying to force the town to be idle with him. Then Tom muses about what brought him to his lazy state. First, as a young boy at school he lost all his friends when he decided to be less lazy. Then, when he played cricket, he exerted so much effort to avoid the ball that he team got mad and he became ill. Lastly, he becomes a lawyer (since I’m American) by avoiding his book and following the lazy path expected of him. This ultimate reward reinforced his idleness completely. This time it is Idle the suggests they move on (because he thinks they should follow the restless donkey), which makes Goodchild burst into tears because he was feeling trapped. However, Tom is sure to suggest that they be lazy in the process and let other people travel for them. Is he starting to adopt some of Goodfellow’s not so lazy laziness?

Their first stop is Junction Station which is lethargic by day and madness by night. This makes Tom uncomfortable and after 4 days he asks to move again, this time to Lancaster where he has heard of a good inn.

Chapter 4 begins after they have arrived in Lancaster and are chatting in the inn. Idle teases Goodchild for doing too much work, not being lazy enough, and never doing anything half way. Then Francis describes his experience in an insane asylum (because Idle asks him what he saw- a popular question). The men realize that when they first arrived, there was a group of old men who were quickly shewed upstairs, and they have not seen them since. They also realized that their door was opened and shut by seemingly no one many times an hour. Is it the old men?

During a conversation Goodchild says “one” in response to a question about the time and one old man appears, opening this door, this time not secretly. The descriptions of him suggest he may be a ghost or have something else creepy about him. He tells them a story about a man whose bride dies before the wedding and then who married a very submissive woman who have never known any different. After the wedding, she moved into his home and he continually ordered her to die, until she did. He buried her body under a tree, which he cared for with great detail, but not before being confronted by a young man who watched them from a different tree and was aware of all that was going on in the house. Years later, the tree was struck by lightening and split in 2. Many people wanted to come see the tree, but the man tried to keep them away. Eventually he could no longer, and they saw the tree, then found the woman’s body. After coming to the conclusion that he killed his second bride, they realized he also probably poisoned his first bride. The man is hung at Lancaster Castle. And the old man announces that he was the man, hung 100 years ago!

When the clock strikes 2, another old man appears and we learn that the old man who was hung now exists as a number of spirits equal to the time on the clock. He is also haunted by the young man who was observing him before and his wife who constantly commands him to live (the opposite of his commands to her- “die!”). His only release was to tell the story to 2 other people.

In the 5th chapter, Francis and Tom travel back home via Leeds and Doncaster. In the latter, they encounter a race that takes over the town. The story ends as the race ends, and both of the men now as if their story is ended


Ashley Jacobson | 95 comments This was much longer than I anticipated, so I will keep my comments short for now:

We have another situation with stories in a story. Dickens style I suppose.

I am not familiar with Collins, but it seems like those who are can tell when he is writing. To be honest, some of this was a slog to get through. It didn’t feel choppy, so that is a feat. But it also wasn’t as engaging as Dickens’ other, shorter works or his full length novels.

Jean has a good review of the story that shares a lot of his life and how it relates to this story, as well as background on the adventure he had with Collins. I suggest going to read that if you haven’t yet.

I’ll be back when I’ve gotten some sleep!


Ashley Jacobson | 95 comments Here is the song Idle is referring to in the first chapter before the train


Maxwellton braes are bonnie,
Where early fa's the dew,
And 'twas there that Annie Laurie
Gave me her promise true.
Gave me her promise true,
Which ne'er forgot will be,
And for bonnie Annie Laurie,
I lay me doon and dee.

Her brow is like the snowdrift,
Her throat is like a swan,
Her face it is the fairest
That e'er the sun shone on.
That e'er the sun shone on,
And dark blue is her ee,
And for bonnie Annie Laurie
I lay me doon and dee.

Like dew on th' gowan lying,
Is the fa' o' her fairy feet,
And like winds in summer sighing
Her voice is low and sweet.
Her voice is low and sweet,
And she's a' the world to me,
And for bonnie Annie Laurie,
I lay me doon and dee.


message 5: by Connie (last edited Aug 22, 2020 09:37AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Connie  G (connie_g) | 1030 comments Ashley, would you prefer that we discuss the whole book at once, or would you like us to discuss one story per day since the five chapters can be thought of as five interlinked short stories?


message 6: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Aug 22, 2020 09:58AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8394 comments Mod
Good idea - I'm wondering that too, Ashley. Please say whichever is easier for you :)

I do like this story actually - it's a hoot if you're familiar with trudging up the Lakeland fells (hills) in the North of England, where it often seems to rain ... And Wilkie Collins was known to be far lazier than Charles Dickens ... which to be honest isn't difficult, as Dickens seemed to be quite manic and compulsively active. (His idea of relaxing seemed to be to go for a bracing horse ride with his pal John Forster - though not up the fells, obviously.) Plus Wilkie Collins had gout, poor man.

So although the two main characters here, Thomas Idle and Francis Goodchild, are clearly exaggerations, it's engagingly entertaining to relate them to the two authors.

Thank for the shout-out Ashley :) Please LINK HERE anyone, if you'd like to read my review.


Ashley Jacobson | 95 comments Honestly it’s been a rough month and I save the story for yesterday, but it was getting way too late and I had to be up early, so I have 2 more chapters to read and 3 summaries to get up. I’ll have it done in a few hours, but feel free to discuss how you like!


Ashley Jacobson | 95 comments I think part of the drudge was not knowing how long it was to begin with and then trying to get it all read when I was tired. Jean recommended this because I loved my time in the Lake Districts. I did have an experience hiking up to a hostel I think in the Cotswolds with one friend when we were both young 20 year old girls. We were a little scared to be so far away from everything and have no cell service, but it turned out to be great! And it would have been different if it wasn’t our first solo international trip!


Tr1sha | 66 comments I read this today & enjoyed it. Parts of it showed Dickens’ sense of humour at its best.


message 10: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Aug 22, 2020 12:07PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8394 comments Mod
Ashley - please don't worry - this is meant to be fun, not a "drudge"! I'm sorry you had such a tough month.

We all need different types of reading at different times, and sometimes none at all. Let's just carry on discussing the story, and when you feel more like it you can come back in :) And we do have some extra time at the end of this week, which I thought we could use to catch up on any story anyone has missed.


message 11: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8394 comments Mod
Trisha - I'm so pleased you enjoyed it too. As you say, parts of it were especially good. The absurdity at his own expense, made me think it's as if Charles Dickens was letting his hair down a bit :)


Tr1sha | 66 comments Bionic Jean wrote: "Trisha - I'm so pleased you enjoyed it too. As you say, parts of it were especially good. The absurdity at his own expense, made me think it's as if Charles Dickens was letting his ..."

Thank you, Jean.


message 13: by Sara (new) - rated it 4 stars

Sara (phantomswife) | 1530 comments I had not anticipated it being as long as it is, so I am needing to read it in sections. The first Chapter is quite funny, full of Dickens' trademark humor. I recognized the identity of each of the apprentices, with Dickens wanting to scale the mountain and dragging poor Collins along for the adventure. The title is so ironic and I like that they can poke a little fun at themselves.

I did actually feel a little anxiety when they were coming down off the mountain in the mist. I have been lost in the woods once and the feeling of not knowing exactly where you are, how to get back to civilization, and feeling a bit in danger came right back to me. I felt for Thomas Idle having that experience and being injured at the same time.


Ashley Jacobson | 95 comments All right! I am done! I have updated my post and will come back in a couple hours (after a shopping trip) with more thoughts. I want to think on this a bit before commenting much more.

The idea of a story within a story within a story is very creepy and silly, and apparently very Dickens (now that I've read some short stories). I do enjoy the silly (for lack of a better word) approach here, but it is the writing that gets me. I LOVE a well written story. I can read an entire novel simply for the writing, no matter what happens. This had fun stuff happening, but not the caliber of writing I expect from Dickens. That is where the drudge comes in for me. It would be more enjoyable in 2 or 3 sittings. I should have allowed myself to enjoy it last night instead of trying to finish it. It was a good idea to stop and finish today! I enjoyed it more and was able to laugh about what I read last night more than I did when reading.

This reminded me of the novel Good Omens. Both are very British, especially for this American. Some of the humor is more British and much of the language is also that way. That was one thing that made reading it harder. I had to look up phrases and words to see the meaning as I was not familiar with some. Good Omens was also silly and funny, but not my favorite. A lot of it is the cultural difference. And some is the writing, as it was in this story. It's so interesting to see the difference in cultures, though. It took me awhile of having to look things up to realize that! And then I applied it to the humor and realized that was foreign to me too!


Connie  G (connie_g) | 1030 comments I enjoyed the humor in the first chapter. I can just imagine Dickens and Collins joking around as they planned it, exaggerating their personalities and reactions. They were enjoying making fun of themselves.

I remember getting briefly lost in the woods once, and following a stream to a lake. My husband was cutting some firewood on an older man's property for a few hours, and I decided to take a quick walk in the woods. The old guy remarked, "Must be a city girl," which I wasn't. So I could relate to their feeling of panic of being lost in the fog.


Tr1sha | 66 comments Ashley, I agree about the cultural difference in humour. But I suspect it’s partly regional too. Much of the humour in this seemed to be the slightly sarcastic, cynical humour that is typical of many Londoners (including myself). I felt that the humour worked well & I actually enjoyed this book more than some of the longer books.


message 17: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8394 comments Mod
A startling comparison with Good Omens: The Nice and Accurate Prophecies of Agnes Nutter, Witch (which I have not yet read, but watched an excellent mini-series of :) ) I did wonder at the time if this humour "transferred" very well to the US, so I suspect it is a cultural nuance.

Yes, good to take your time with this one, I think :)


Ashley Jacobson | 95 comments Jean, I did not mean to be startling. Haha. Very different stories, but the humor and writing are similar from my American perspective.

Also very interesting about regional humor! The US is huge and we definitely have many differences in culture. I grew up in Southern California, between Los Angeles and San Diego, 20 minutes from Disneyland and dozens of beaches, an hour or less from big cities...then I lived in rural Pennsylvania for a year and it was like being in a different country! So beautiful and full of amazing people, but different for sure! It makes sense that that’s true everywhere! My second trip to England, I flew into Manchester instead of London and that was already different enough. Then we went to the Lake Districts and Oxford and Bath, then Dublin and Glasgow. All very different feel, but I didn’t really think about writing and humor being very different. We study American Lit and English Lit in school and it’s all just lumped together!


message 19: by Connie (last edited Aug 23, 2020 05:25AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Connie  G (connie_g) | 1030 comments The second chapter showcases Wilkie Collins' talent as a mystery writer. The author has used Thomas Idle's sprained ankle during the walking tour as a frame for his doctor to tell a mystery/horror story. This was a captivating Gothic story that made me want to read one of Collins' mystery novels.

The doctor's story can be read as a stand-alone short story, "The Dead Hand," which is online.


message 20: by Sara (new) - rated it 4 stars

Sara (phantomswife) | 1530 comments You can definitely hear the change in voice when Chapter Two hands off to Collins. I am a fan of Collins' writing. Always a bit of mystery to solve. I love the story within a story framework, which is very Dickensian. When I was reading the doctor's story, I stepped completely outside the story of the idlers.


message 21: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Aug 23, 2020 01:06PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8394 comments Mod
Ashley - Oh I think it's good to be startled in this way. It makes us think in new ways, with new associations. That one would never have occurred to me.

Yes, Manchester and London are worlds apart in vernacular and cultural perceptions. I remember my Mum (from Yorkshire, but close to Manchester) not being able to understand anyone in Essex/London when she visited us. And in the tube she asked me "Why does everyone wear black? Don't they like colours down South?

As Trisha says, the sarcasm and slight cynicism can be typical of Londoners' humour :)


message 22: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Aug 23, 2020 01:07PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8394 comments Mod
Connie and Sara - the story within a story is also used by Wilkie Collins himself! He must have been pleased with the tale, as he later published it as a stand-alone story: “The Dead Hand”, (as you mentioned Connie) or to give it its full name, “Brother Morgan's Story of The Dead Hand”.

This was published in “The Queen of Hearts”, an 1859 novel by him. Although the novel comprises a collection of ten short stories, they are presented in the popular Victorian tradition: inside a framing story, told in this case to entertain a young woman.


France-Andrée (iphigenie72) | 376 comments I had difficulty getting in the story, Thomas Idle is a lot more like me... if reading like crazy is lazy; I'm definitely not a "go climb a mountain" lazy (is anybody lazy that kind a lazy? I think it's the opposite!).

After not getting in the story in the first chapter, I adored the second one. I got so into it that I screamed after the body had changed position in the bed... the explanation was good, I guess knowing someone was in a coma was really hard to detect in those years (I like the image of the bells that they put on coffins... or the large rooms where they put corpses to see if they were deteriorating before putting them in the ground, I imagine working there... nope, going to keep my job).

The second ghost story was very good too. I also liked the descriptions of the pony and horse that weren't safe or lazy enough in the last chapter, that was very funny.

About Good Omens: The Nice and Accurate Prophecies of Agnes Nutter, Witch, I have laugh til I cried reading that book, it was so funny and I got weird looks on the bus, but couldn't stop myself. I tend to find British shows more funny than American, my favorites in English tend to be British. The cultures in Canada are very different per region too, here (Québec) we speak french so that's already way different from the rest of North America.


France-Andrée (iphigenie72) | 376 comments Thank you Ashley for the song, it's fun to have those little details.


Connie  G (connie_g) | 1030 comments France-Andrée wrote: "I had difficulty getting in the story, Thomas Idle is a lot more like me... if reading like crazy is lazy; I'm definitely not a "go climb a mountain" lazy (is anybody lazy that kind a lazy? I think..."

Climbing a mountain is not my idea of being lazy, or vacation fun either, France-Andree. I have a fondness for a good ghost story, and enjoyed the ghost stories in Chapters 2 and 4 too.


Connie  G (connie_g) | 1030 comments In Chapter 3, the two idle men move on to the Cumberland seacoast village of Allonby. The only good thing they could say about Allonby was that it had a fine view of the coast of Scotland across the water. Allonby was so small that they were completely bored.

There are some amusing memories about Thomas Idle's (Collins) childhood and study of law. But part of Chapter 3 covers the same ideas as Chapter 1.

Ever since we read about Aunt Betsey and the donkeys in David Copperfield, I've been noticing when donkeys pop up in a novel. When a donkey bolts from Allonby, the bored Thomas and Francis feel empathy for the donkey. "They hope he may be still bolting; if so, their best wishes are with him." The two idle men bolted out of Allonby too.


message 27: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Aug 27, 2020 03:05AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8394 comments Mod
Connie - I do the same! Charles Dickens did seem to have a bit of thing about donkeys, didn't he?

Ashley - I know you said you found it hard to tell who wrote which bits, but it's nice to have a ghost story written by each of them included, I think, so that they could demonstrate their own styles. Also this framework of a story within a story was popular with Victorians. And thirdly, including stand-alone stories different in tone and atmosphere in a kind of travelogue (which this is) reflects Charles Dickens's own way of moving from dark to light in his novels. When there is a hair-raising, terrifying scene, it it probably followed by one of his comic absurdities. Wilkie Collins tends not to do that!

I must admit that I hadn't considered Wilkie Collins's influence on Charles Dickens, but only the other way round! Wilkie Collins's later works are said by critics to be not as good, and I'd assumed that the laudanum (which he had to take for his gout) and failing eyesight might have been contributory factors to the decline in his writing.

I do find The Lazy Tour Of Two Idle Apprentices is intriguing as to which parts are written by which author - it's fascinating to think of their conversations.

So in a way it falls neatly into two parts, I think. I've linked to my review already, since Ashley mentioned it, so I'll just put a few more thoughts here.


message 28: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Aug 24, 2020 03:52PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8394 comments Mod
I'm delighting in identifying the writing. Largely it is Charles Dickens I think, who writes what I think of as the "linking" pieces, and chapter 2 is entirely Wilkie Collins. So specifically:

CHAPTER 1:

The fingerprint of Charles Dickens is quite obvious from the start, even by the naming of these two "misguided young men". Mr. Thomas Idle, a consummate idler, is a satirical portrayal of Wilkie Collins, whilst Mr. Francis Goodchild, who puts an inordinate effort into everything - even being idle - clearly indicates the frenetic activity of Charles Dickens.

The description of the climbing and descent from Carrock Fell made me laugh, with its verisimilitude. So often Chris and I have been in a similar position in the Lake District (though I'm not sure which of us was whom!) There are so many parts to quote, but I particularly enjoyed the "glowing, shining" Dickens:

"Mr. Goodchild looked eagerly at the top of the mountain, and, feeling apparently that he was now going to be very lazy indeed, shone all over wonderfully to the eye, under the influence of the contentment within and the moisture without. Only in the bosom of Mr. Thomas Idle did Despondency now hold her gloomy state."

Charles Dickens has perfectly and ironically captured both how he feels about himself, allied with the view others have of him. And the moisture ... well it does seem to rain almost incessantly in the Lake District!

But I will remember with fondness the image I have in my mind of Charles Dickens, with his "shining face", striding along confidently, with a limping, bedraggled Wilkie Collins more than a few steps behind. So often we like to feel that we are walking in the footsteps of our favourite authors, or are privileged to visit their homes. This was a surprisingly refreshing instance of just that.

CHAPTER 2:

Within this is a ghost story which is clearly penned by Wilkie Collins. It has all his trademark concerns: mistaken identity, illegitimacy, inheritance, feckless young men, a poor but industrious student, female sacrifice in marriage ... and the ghostly elements are not spooks and sprites, as Dickens would have conjured up, but something more sinister and of this world, akin to an understated Edgar Allan Poe. Motifs, such as the cloistered four poster bed, are recognisable from other stories of his. For me this has an echo of his classic A Terribly Strange Bed, although this particular bed has a dead and alive occupant. It is a gripping tale, enough to make me feel that I could not stop until I had finished reading it.

CHAPTER 3: and we are back to Dickens's unmistakable descriptions and diverting discursiveness!


message 29: by Sara (last edited Aug 24, 2020 04:40PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Sara (phantomswife) | 1530 comments I thoroughly enjoyed all the segments once I got into the story. It started rather slow, but the trip up the mountain and the two "ghost" stories were terrific. I liked the idea that we were in on an inside joke--Dickens dragging Collins out on a walking tour, when Collins would prefer to just listen to Dickens as he watches the world through a hotel window.

Lots of humor spread throughout the frame story and both personalities evident in the writing.


Ashley Jacobson | 95 comments Sarah I also very much enjoyed the ghost stories, especially the one with the dead mans who turns into 12 men. I think I need to read more of Dickens ghost stories and compare them. I did not have the energy to read the middle 2 stories, so I don’t know yet if they had ghost elements. But I’m comparing the first story to the ghost stories told here. Who wrote this last ghost story that I’m referring to?


Connie  G (connie_g) | 1030 comments I loved Chapter 4, Dickens' Bride's Chamber ghost story. It was interesting how Dickens framed the story, having Thomas Idle being so lazy that he couldn't stay awake until the end of the story told by the "One old man."


message 32: by Sara (last edited Aug 25, 2020 06:27AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Sara (phantomswife) | 1530 comments The "12 Men" ghost story was written by Dickens, Ashley. The "Dead Hand" ghost story by Collins.

Connie - I loved that element as well. I think the friends probably joked with one another a lot about how Dickens couldn't sit still and Collins could barely be made to get up from a comfortable position.

I loved the way Dickens' character Francis was always standing at the window observing and Thomas Idle was lying, with his sprained ankle for an excuse, having Francis describe to him what was going on outside.


message 33: by Connie (last edited Aug 25, 2020 07:19AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Connie  G (connie_g) | 1030 comments There is an illustration of the man, and his young wife in the Bride's Chamber. He's saying, "Die," as she's begging for mercy. The illustration was done by Harry Furniss. I don't know how to post illustrations, but here is the link to the Victorian Web:

http://www.victorianweb.org/art/illus...


Ashley Jacobson | 95 comments Sarah, that is what I assumed. I could tell the difference between those 2 stories, so maybe I saw a bit of difference after all! Haha.


Ashley Jacobson | 95 comments Thomas also repeated the question to Francis, in many places, what do you see? Or something similar. Using his friend to allow him to stay lazy. Haha.


message 36: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8394 comments Mod
I'm sure you did Ashley :)


message 37: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Aug 25, 2020 11:12AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8394 comments Mod
Here it is Connie - thanks for finding this!



"In the Bride's Chamber" - Harry Furniss 1910


message 38: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8394 comments Mod
The commentary to this points out that Charles Dickens was fascinated with the figure of Blue Beard, derived from Charles Perrault's 1697 tale of a brutal, domineering serial killer of young women:

"Dickens tells the short story in the limited omniscient, giving the reader access to the thoughts and feelings not of the victim-bride but of the psychopathic groom, in imitation of Edgar Allan Poe."

I did think it was reminiscent of Edgar Allan Poe, so it's quite nice to know that it was a sort of tribute to him. (The two authors were friends.)


France-Andrée (iphigenie72) | 376 comments I did think about Blue Beard because when Goodchild is looking through the window and Idle is asking him what he sees, it is worded as in the fairy tale: what does he see through the window of the turret which is what the heroine ask her sister (Anne) in the story.


message 40: by Katy (new)

Katy | 285 comments Somehow I missed the fact that the two characters in this story represented Dickens and Collins and only found out after I was half way through the story. Knowing that made it much more entertaining, especially when they commented on each other's characters.


Laysee Bionic Jean wrote: "Connie and Sara - the story within a story is also used by Wilkie Collins himself! He must have been pleased with the tale, as he later published it as a stand-alone story: “The Dead ..."

I share Connie and Sara's enjoyment of Chapter 2, which I believe could be attributed to Collins. It bore the character traits of an engaging mystery. Also, Andrew Holliday, the student doctor, had no name, which reminded me of the two sisters in Collin's novel, No Name. Love the humor and knowing Dickens and Collins were laughing at themselves.


message 42: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Aug 27, 2020 03:07AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8394 comments Mod
Laysee wrote: "Also, Andrew Holliday, the student doctor, had no name, which reminded me of the two sisters in Collin's novel, No Name ..."

Yes! Well spotted; I hadn't picked that up reading it this time :) (Apparently I had when I wrote my review though LOL! One of the reasons I love rereading.) And of course Charles Dickens would have enjoyed this part, as he himself spends a lot of time in his novels referring to "the stranger" or "the old man" or "the fairy" etc., to partly disguise who he is talking about.


message 43: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8394 comments Mod
France-Andrée wrote: "I did think about Blue Beard ..."

You obviously know your fairy tales well, France-Andrée :)


message 44: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Aug 26, 2020 02:46PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8394 comments Mod
Katy - I'm so glad you spotted that it's a collaboration half way through, by the way, as it does make it so much more enjoyable, I think. Like an "in-joke" :)

Since we see a lot of the action through the eyes of the morose and tired Mr. Idle, I'm wondering if some of their time in the inn was spent in collaboration - or the modern idea of "brainstorming" - rather than going off having divided up the parts.


message 45: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8394 comments Mod
I quite like the way the story refers to "Lady Literature" :) I think the Victorians often used this expression, to personify characteristics. Think of all the sculptures and paintings of women to illustrate courage, hope etc.


message 46: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8394 comments Mod
Chapter 3:

So what kind of apprenticeships were these two running away from? Can we find the basis for this in real life too?

Thomas was a barrister, wasn't he. And there was the entertaining description of him idling his way through law school. I believe this was taken from life, and exaggerated, as so much of this story is.

Wilkie Collins's father had hoped he would become a clergyman, but since he showed no interest in this, encouraged him to study law as a second best. It was still a reputable job, with a good steady income. Wilkie Collins was indeed "lazy", in that he preferred to write novels and spend time with his friends. He had no interest in studying law, but did manage to finish the course and be called to the Bar (in 1851) though he never practised. So this seems an apt description of the facts:

"The third occasion on which Thomas found reason to reproach himself bitterly for the mistake of having attempted to be industrious, was connected with his choice of a calling in life. Having no interest in the Church, he appropriately selected the next best profession for a lazy man in England − the Bar."


message 47: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Aug 26, 2020 10:34AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8394 comments Mod
Quite a lot of the parts about Thomas Idle, when he is stretched out injured on a sofa in Allonby, is him reflecting that all the great disasters of his life have been caused by being deluded into activity. And all these reminiscences, are loosely based on Wilkie Collins's own life.

At school, after winning a prize, Wilkie Collins was rejected by the other idle boys as a traitor, and by the industrious boys as a dangerous interloper. The only time he played cricket he caught a fever from the unaccustomed perspiration. And we know the parts about him studying for the Bar are based on fact too.


message 48: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8394 comments Mod
Here's another illustration, but I'm not sure who by:



"Outside the Dead Man's Room"


message 49: by Sara (new) - rated it 4 stars

Sara (phantomswife) | 1530 comments Another nice illustration! Don't you love the top hat and cape, and can you imagine lugging that bag of instruments around with you?


France-Andrée (iphigenie72) | 376 comments Wilkie Collins seems to have been a character in real and imagined life! I have only read one of his books The Woman in White and some short stories so I don't know a lot of his writings, but through the biographies of Katey (Dickens) Perugini and Charles Dickens, I feel I know him better.


« previous 1
back to top