The Mystery, Crime, and Thriller Group discussion

Paul 'Pezski' is the moderator for this group read, the first book in the Mary Russell/ Sherlock Holmes series by Laurie R. King. Enjoy the reading and the discussions.

Thanks Bill.


I'm looking forward to hear what everyone thinks and, to echo Bill, I hope we all enjoy the book and the chat.

I'll put a couple of questions to get people going as separate posts, so they can be responded to directly if you like (although it's far from mandatory!) and, of course, feel free to raise other points.

As it's a single thread discussion please hide any spoilers.

What do you think of the framing device, the conceit that King is the editor of manuscripts sent to her which may or may not be factual? Do you find that this helps ground the story, that it is an meta-textual interesting comment on the position of Sherlock Holmes as a character of such solidity in popular culture that he is almost historical - especially taken alongside the Prelude in which Russell points up that her mentor has become a fiction? Or is it a distracting whimsy, immediately to be put aside?

Thoughts on the main characters, Mary Russell and the depiction of Holmes.

I'll be picking this up from the library tomorrow and looking forward to reading it. Going to post 3, though, there is a challenge because to me there is no Holmes without Watson, his biographer! So in a way, even without intending to, I know I'm challenging the author to over come this. (Maybe Watson does show up somehow, I don't know yet, but the first voice at the beginning is Mary's). I'll try not to be a hard-headed Holmes purist!:)

I will cheerfully admit to being biased ... I love this series and think the introductory book is the best of a very good series.

I found Mary a very sympathetic character from the beginning and found the friendship between Mary and Holmes quite believable. Given her less than optimum upbringing, I could definitely understand why she found a kinship with an older, scientific-minded person and enjoyed the reaction of Holmes to her astringent personality.

To me, Sherlock as an 'older' married man doesn't compute. Because of that I find I can't really enjoy these books.

Just started reading ig. I hope be joining the discussion soon.

It's been ages since I read this, but I remember thinking it was both very intelligent (which is par for the course with this author) and challenging (imagining an older Holmes marrying a young woman, shifting the timeframe in my mind from the Victorian era to the 20th cenetury, adding a dose of feminism). But on the whole, I remember thinking it was a cracking read.

I think this book is a great read, as is most of the series.

I am half way through it. Nothing sure if I like it yet : ) Some things sound very weird to me, and I am quite offended by what has been done of Watson. But I am enjoying the narrative itself. Let's see.

I got off on the wrong foot by reading the prologue/author's note. She seemed dismissive of/cavalier toward Doyle, Holmes, and Watson, and the only purpose would be to give Mary Russell (and herself) a boost of validity. Also, the author's note complimented Mary's writing or story telling as really brilliant (something to that effect), and that's funny, sort of complimenting your own writing (reminded me of Nabokov's fictional doctor complimenting Humbert's brilliant manuscript, so basically complimenting himself.).

I hadn't read this since it first came out, seemed tacky. My husband got it from the library because it was a Laurie King (she's on my list of favorite authors). It was the last unread book before the next library visit so, desperately, I picked it up. Not having read all of Arthur Conan Doyle's books, I didn't know he retired and kept bees. Also, I have arthritis in my hands, and plan to ask my doctor about what's in bee stings.

I was surprised at how quickly I was enjoying it. I still have a problem with the age difference and wish she had been 21 to start, but she wasn't. Obviously there was a hint of physicality, but not out of order. I liked it enough to get the second one and enjoyed that also, so I'll probably finish the series.

Most intriguing is the author's story about the chest, etc. Is that true or part of the ploy? She certainly makes you think so.

I read this two years ago and while it wasn't necessarily outstanding, I still enjoyed this twist on the Sherlock Holmes' stories. I also liked how strong a character Mary Russell was. I've got quite a few books in the series on my bookshelf and I plan to read at least the next one this year. I think they will become a nice comfort read.

I think Mary Russell being a strong character and very much an individual, especially for the time setting, was an absolute necessity. Sherlock Holmes, as a character, is always seen, I think, as very much his own person and very eccentric so I think his attraction to a woman would have not been believable had she not been equally strong.

Barbara wrote: "To me, Sherlock as an 'older' married man doesn't compute. Because of that I find I can't really enjoy these books."

I was married at one time to a person 20 years my senior; however, this May/December really bothers me.
His attachment to her seems, in this novel, to be more fatherly, which makes much more sense.
On the other hand, who else in this world would she have married?

Paul 'Pezski' wrote: "What do you think of the framing device, the conceit that King is the editor of manuscripts sent to her which may or may not be factual? Do you find that this helps ground the story, that it is an ..."

Don't care for the opening conceit at all, but it does fit in with Conan Doyle's way of telling his tales.

I've read several of the books over the years and recently had a chance to see Laurie R. King at an author event. For me, the series works better for me if I don't think of Sherlock Holmes as Sherlock Holmes or their marriage as a marriage. I even asked King how she was able to justify Holmes' historic antipathy towards women with the Holmes she created. Her response was that Doyle portrayed Holmes' attitude towards women as not so much antipathy as apathy and that he basically had no use for them. She went on to point out that when Holmes did meet someone whose mental faculties were on a par with his, such as Irena Adler, he was impressed and acted accordingly. King's Holmes appears to treat his marriage more as an intellectual collaboration as a romantic liaison.

I enjoyed this book quite a bit - I liked the voice of the main character - at least as far as she seems to fit with Holmes - intelligent and a bit arrogant about that. I'm sure I'll read more in the series at some point.

I have just started this book, and so far am I enjoying it.

I started this and find that it moves fast. When I read the first few chapters, I wondered if I am reading a mystery or a biography of Mary Russell. Afterwards, it picked up speed and I am hooked. Hope to complete before the target date.

Viji wrote: "I started this and find that it moves fast. When I read the first few chapters, I wondered if I am reading a mystery or a biography of Mary Russell. Afterwards, it picked up speed and I am hooked..."

Did kind of had that feel at the beginning, but now it is moving along nicely.

I actually liked the faux-bio beginning as it gave me a really good, solid feel for Mary Russell. The explanations of her background and motivations and her reasons for being atypical for a female at that time gave a reasonable foundation for the connection between her and Holmes when they met.

Sharon wrote: "I actually liked the faux-bio beginning as it gave me a really good, solid feel for Mary Russell. The explanations of her background and motivations and her reasons for being atypical for a female ..."

A good point

Completed the book yesterday. Had a great time with Mary Russell and Sherlock Holmes!

I'm about one-third through and while the opening conceit seemed fun when I first read it, the conceit of Mary Sue Russell so far isn't really winning me over.

The writing is good but the episodic framing makes for choppy reading. Am just entering into the main case of the kidnapping (of a Jessica Simpson no less), so perhaps the rest of the story will pick up.