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Dune
This is why the Dune trailer is awful: https://youtu.be/KAOdjqyG37AI’m not even sure why they remade the Pink Floyd song. It’s fairly portentous all on its own.
Trike wrote: "Trailer for Denis Villanueve’s Dune dropped.https://youtu.be/C4xZqhjtJcQ
I’m interested in the film, but that is a terrible trailer. So cliché."
Can't talk. Sandworms.
I was genuinely laughing out loud at the trailer, which is the exact opposite reaction they’re going for. It’s so hilariously by-the-numbers.
I dunno Trike, the things about that trailer that feel off to me are: * The Gom Jabbar needle isn't close enough to be a threat and the Bene Gesserit holding it is in the wrong body position to apply it. It's essentially a martial arts scene with illiterate positioning.
* Nasal stillsuit attachments. NASAL STILLSUIT ATTACHMENTS. It takes me back to the Berkely Breathed "Nose Bra" bit in Bloom County (see below.)
* The Bene Gesserit "veil.:" Now that's a piece of silliness.
Things to love: The immense scale. Chani is the right age. Paul's painful innocence. The implication of prescience and its downside. The sandworm. THE FREAKING SANDWORM.
The structure of the trailer is simply a commonly used format. It's as normal as a four-act story.
Trike wrote: "This is why the Dune trailer is awful: https://youtu.be/KAOdjqyG37AI’m not even sure why they remade the Pink Floyd song. It’s fairly portentous all on its own."
Ha ha. Love this. It's so true.
"The trailer gives too much away!""The trailer doesn't make sense, what's this about!"
"[Minor thing] isn't the way I envisioned it!"
"It's too slavish to the source material!"
"It changed X from the source material!"
Sigh. I could pick this apart too. For example, I think Momoa is utterly wrong for Duncan Idaho. But, hell, we're getting a freaking Dune movie that may well be at least a decent adaptation of a classic SF novel.
^ Yeah, looking forward to it too, even with some confusion along the way. TBH I couldn't be sure if the bearded guy was supposed to be Liet Kynes (my first guess,) Leto Atreides (my second, but he's pretty unkempt for that,) or Stilgar. *shrug* It'll be clear when the movie comes out.It's a two parter and I will cheerfully pay full price for an early-in-the-run theater seat for both. I hope it earns major bank. Buuuuut I hope they don't get emboldened by any such success to make any of the sequels. For the love of God we don't need to see "moody Paul" on the big screen with his eyes burned out, nor see his sister turn into a villain. And never ever EVER superhero Leto II with sandworm suit.
Bearded guy is Leto, played by Oscar Isaac.I don’t know if I want to go to a theatre until 2021 when a vaccine is out. I’ll pay for VOD for this, Black Widow and maybe Wonder Woman, but it’s too risky to see a movie I think.
Villenueve gender swapped Liet-Kynes who is female for some reason in the movie. Don't think it makes a big difference, personally As with trike, I'm doing this on VOD but I really want to see it in the big screen. Sadly, our best theater in Seattle is closed indefinitely so.. .
I'm skeptical on how "true to book" the movie will be. If it's available for VOD when it comes out, I'll pay to watch it from home. I'm not going out to theaters until it's safer to go out in 2021. Anyone excited about Dune: the Sisterhood? I didn't realize how many books Brian Herbert has released until recently.
Rick wrote: "Villenueve gender swapped Liet-Kynes who is female for some reason in the movie."Oh yes! Now that you mention it, I recall hearing that some time back.
As for the reason, I'm thinking it's because the source book is one big sausage fest. Sure, there's a Bene Gesserit nun at the start, and Jessica has a supporting role. Beyond that female roles are essentially cameos: Chani and the Emperor's daughter barely show up, and the original Fremen Reverend Mother is in just a few scenes.
It's otherwise the Paul show, with appearances by Hunky Duncan, morally-fat Baron Harkonnen, his nephew Feyd-Rautha, Stilgar, and swarms of Fremen following Lawrence of Arab-er, Paul Atreides.
There's a lot to love about this story: The intersection of religion and politics, delicate ecologies, Spice as essential commodity similar to fossil fuels, commentary on prescience and its limitations. Well fleshed out female characters are not among those reasons. Well, it was written in 1965. It's more amazing that the book has stood up as well as it has, deficiencies or no.
Yeah and I can't see what difference having Liet-Kynes be female rather than male makes to the story, so I'm totally fine with this. I imagine some gatekeeping whinyboy will try to rally people up about this but... eh.
"Quinn's Ideas" on youtube approves. He's done a lot of videos on the Dune books. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kysA...
John (Taloni) wrote: "Chani is the right age."LOL about the nose bra! However, the actress playing Chani is 24, which makes her 11 years older than book Chani. (But that seems like a good change to me, just like when they aged up Daenerys in the TV series, also by over a decade.) Sean Young was also around 25 when she played the role, so no change there.
And the hits just keep on comin’...'DUNE' (2021) WRITER CONFIRMS A CONCERNING RUMOR ABOUT THE MOVIE
“IT’S OFFICIAL. The 2021 movie version of Dune will only tell half the story of the first novel. This means the long-awaited Denis Villeneuve sci-fi epic will almost certainly end on a cliffhanger, and it’s very possible this big Dune cliffhanger may never be resolved on-screen. At least not in a reasonable amount of time.”
https://www.inverse.com/entertainment...
Kevin Smith said someone told him the movie is amazing, but I take that sort of hearsay with a grain of salt, to say the least. All signs point to a disaster, frankly. I’ll be happy to be proved wrong, but it’s not looking good.
Yah, if they were shot LOTR style all at once I could have seen this being a very good thing for the story, give it some room to breathe. But I too have my doubts with it being split in both the filming, as well as the movies. But I still plan to watch it either way, and I will hold judgement until after that.
Wasn't this known to be a two parter from the getgo? The only problem being, there's now no theatrical market, so no incentive to shoot the second.
New trailer looks good. I hope the movie does well enough to shoot the second part.
That’s much better than the unintentionally hilarious first trailer.If it weren’t also on HBO Max I doubt I’d go see it, though.
Is there some way to see the first 10 minutes of it in an imax theater? Mike's Book Reviews on youtube did: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otWSs...
An opinion on Aljazeera in reaction to the trailer: In Dune, Paul Atreides led a jihad, not a crusade - Here is why that matters.
Trike wrote: "That’s much better than the unintentionally hilarious first trailer."
Think I liked the first one better. First is the many shots of the ridiculous snotsuits, somehow Villeneuve's take on stilsuits. Second, I don't recall anyone asking the Atreides family to bring peace to Arrakis. They were tasked with preserving the Spice trade.
Chani is well cast, others not ridiculously different from the book. Well, Liet Kynes isn't credible as Chani's mother, not sure how they'll finesse that. Jason Momoa has the charisma to pull off any role. Dave Bautista should thank his lucky stars that buffoon turn in GOTG is rewarded with a serious role in serious SF movie. Baron Harkonnen flies in a much less ridiculous way than the first Dune movie. The actor playing Paul is credible as a middle teen. I'll see this in theaters.
Jemppu wrote: "An opinion on Aljazeera in reaction to the trailer: In Dune, Paul Atreides led a jihad, not a crusade - Here is why that matters."It’s interesting that he denotes the difference between crusade and jihad and says this:
In another essay, Men on Other Planets, Herbert cautions against reproducing cliches, reminding writers to question their underlying assumptions about time, society, and religion. He encourages them to be subversive, because science fiction “permits you to go beyond those cultural norms that are prohibited by your society and enforced by conscious (and unconscious) literary censorship in the prestigious arenas of publication”.
but doesn’t seem to notice that Dune is yet another in a long line of “white savior” narratives, specifically aping Lawrence of Arabia (Seven Pillars of Wisdom). The whole “gone native” trope has become a cliche from overuse, and people slammed Avatar for using it while giving this a pass.
I can't help but to think, how "white savior" might be rather a narrow read from 'Western colonial' racial focus and simplistic separation of 'white'/others; assuming 'whiteness' as the defining aspect of (the supposed) 'messiah' seems quite culturally specific. I'd like to imagine the mix of influences, ethnic minglings and dynastic elements Dune (the narrative) builds its inspirations upon would be open for more nuanced and dimensional interpretations, than those limited to most obvious modern Western sensibilities/POVs. (Plus, as I've understood, the ultimate message of the trilogy is about the dubiousness of trusting any 'savior' figure, anyway?).The lack of specific representation in the adaptation(s) is an issue separate from the original text (but quite obviously also cultural; it's a Hollywood production with the usual markets and target audiences in mind).
It *would* be interesting to see what creatives of Islamic heritage would conjure of the lore, given such resources. (Or interest).
("Going native" seems peculiarly frowned upon concept - dismissal of the idea of adapting to cultures one comes in contact with? Rather 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation with attitudes, it often seems. 'When in Rome...').
*pops head up after months of lurking* Dune isn't a white savior story,though, but a subversion of it. Paul knows that he will wreak terrible destruction and death upon much of the universe and that he will become a hated dictator and will ultimately destroy the Fremen way of life. He tries to avoid this fate but ultimately can't, so at the end of the book he embraces it. It's just that the first book stops before the consequences come rolling in.
^ THIS! And in his name, the Fremen Jihad spreads across the known universe, killing billions. Paul's first son is killed and Chani dies in childbirth. His daughter is subverted and dies.
I was just talking about the adaptation of the first book, because let’s be honest, we’re the only ones who’ve read deeper into the series. Or who’ve read the book at all, frankly. Most people just watch the movie.
That's exactly when I'm seeing it in Dolby Cinema.
After watching, got to admit, I actually prefer both the Lynch and the Sci-Fi miniseries to this. Although, I would watch this again just for the soundtrack, which was truly amazing.
Just finished watching on HBO MAX. Very well done, but frustrating. I hope they make the second half of the story.I watched Lynch's Dune again, yesterday. The first SyFy mini-series isn't streaming anywhere that I could find. I saw it when it came out. I think the new Dune is grittier and more compelling than its predecessors. The second SyFy mini-series seems to be on Hoopla, so that might be something to watch again.
So here is my take, I decided to see Dune on the big screen at an Alamo. Was more full then I hoped, but picked a seat with out anyone on either side, or in front, and the walkway behind me. I know this is coming to HBO max,but I really enjoyed seeing it on the big screen. And I also enjoyed the treat of seeing it at an Alamo. First time in a theatre in 21 months. And I thought the movie was great as well. It’s been close to 30 years from when I read the book, so I could be mistaken. But this seemed much more of a decompressed remake of the Lynch film, then an adaptation of the book. It very obviously a Villanueve film. But since i like his story telling and cinematic style I consider that a good thing. I also liked the Lynch film, and did even after seeing it for the first time soon after reading the novel, so take that for what it is worth. So the fact that he used several of its elements didn’t bother me either.
Some interesting things I noted in the credits. Kevin J. Anderson is noted as a consultant fairly high up in them ( without Brian Herbert). And Brian K Vaughan got a thank you from the director at the end, not sure how he was involved, but still interesting to see.
As noted above the Soundtrack was excellent, there was one scene where it made it hard to here the dialogue for me, but I have to think this was intentional for that scene.
While I’ve only watched Ariaval, Blade Runner 2049, and this of Villanueve’s movies I’ve thought each was great, so I really should go back and watch his other movies.
I saw it last night in Dolby Cinema. I didn't really notice the advantages of Dolby Atmos sound except it's certainly loud. The movie was good, if a bit ponderous. I wish I could see part 2 now. Longer novels should really be adapted as tv series. Apparently, a Dune Sisterhood tv series is in the works. There's some things I didn't completely understand about Paul's visions and the voices he hears until after watching Quinn's Ideas review on youtube. Quinn says the movie is very faithful to the book. I'm thinking of watching Dune again on Hbo Max with subtitles on. You can find Syfy's Dune miniseries on youtube as well.
^ I read the book a year or two back, partly in anticipation of the movie. Not sure I can make it out to the theaters opening weekend, but I'd rather see it that way. Would like to convince the wife to come with me. Theaters are a hard sell right now.
That after-credits stinger was a game-changer! Villaneuve is a genius. Honestly, I did not expect a crossover with Riddick. Brilliant!
Honestly, though, Dune was as big a disappointment as I was fearing. I absolutely loved Arrival and enjoyed Blade Runner 2049, but Dune feels empty and soulless.Dune feels less like a movie and more like a Cliff’s Notes version of the story. So many characters just get forgotten or barely appear. What happened to Gurney Halleck? Or Thufir? Why was Shadout Mapes even in the flick? She’s there for all of three minutes.
It’s like they highlighted a single line for each character and had them utter that, then shuffled them offscreen for the next person. Except for Duncan Idaho, there’s no richness or depth to any of the people who aren’t named Atreides. Idaho is the only character in the entire thing who gets a story arc.
So much time is spent on Paul’s vague dreamlike visions that by the third one I just hit fast-forward. I think there were seven in all. Given that they aren’t accurate, I don’t know what the point of them was, and certainly the content didn’t justify lingering on them.
There’s a decided lack of color in the film, too. There is some bull and bullfighting art briefly shown — why bullfighting? Weird — but other than that it’s all gray and brown. In the desert I get it but the living spaces seemed like unadorned basement bunkers.
I did like the spaceship and ornithopter designs. Those were cool, as were the outfits. But that’s pretty scanty.
Trike wrote: "Dune feels less like a movie and more like a Cliff’s Notes version of the story."This pretty accurately expresses how I feel about the movie, so I'm stealing, thanks very much.
Attention to details like the bull, which had no representation in the actual book (Paul's grandfather was killed by bull) but so many things not from the actual book.
One of the biggest things for me was Gurney... what I have always viewed as a pretty key moment in Paul and Gurney's relationship is when they are training in the beginning. In the book they are very casual and playful with one another and I believe it even states there that Gurney was Paul's favorite of all his father's men.
But this relationship seems to be transferred to Duncan... which made no sense to me. A lot of the story was told between Paul and Gurney in the book, and it just never really materialized in the movie. Perhaps the hope is they want to build up Duncan in case they get to make the whole series?
And I would agree, the only one who seems to have a pulse or a real story of any sort here is Duncan...
I did like the movie, but I feel like I liked the movie because my brain filled in all those empty spaces. I'd be pretty interested to see what someone who had not read the book felt about it.
Chris wrote: "After watching, got to admit, I actually prefer both the Lynch and the Sci-Fi miniseries to this. Although, I would watch this again just for the soundtrack, which was truly amazing."Yeah, I can’t believe Lynch actually told a more complete story. This alternate universe we’re in is topsy-turvy.
Chris wrote: "And I would agree, the only one who seems to have a pulse or a real story of any sort here is Duncan... "Maybe it was telegraphed, since the title could be read as “Dunc”. :p
https://ibb.co/8ccrxQx
We just got back from seeing it (and I'm currently listening as a reread). We thought it was fantastic and a million times better than the years-long snoozer from Lynch.
How to Read the Dune Book Series in Orderhttps://www.esquire.com/entertainment...
Looks like a "read them in the order they were published" list, but I could be wrong.
Trike wrote: "So much time is spent on Paul’s vague dreamlike visions that by the third one I just hit fast-forward. I think there were seven in all. Given that they aren’t accurate, I don’t know what the point of them was, and certainly the content didn’t justify lingering on them."They aren't (all) accurate because (view spoiler)
Chris wrote: "Attention to details like the bull, which had no representation in the actual book (Paul's grandfather was killed by bull) but so many things not from the actual book. "
The book does this to set up the feel for the Atreides dynasty and what the patriarch is obligated to do for family and empire. The scene with Paul and Leto in the graveyard establishes what the Atreides dynasty is about, and what duty is about, and also, what familial love is about.
Overall, the changes were smart and the acting was exceptional.
Stellan Skaarsgard totally channeled Brando from Apocalypse Now. It was chilling. Oscar Isaac portrayed a true hero and a wonderful father. Timothée Chalamet was captivating. I completely underestimated him going into this movie, as I expect I was supposed to just as much as those who don't know the environment might underestimate the tiny desert mouse (Muad'Dib). Rebecca Ferguson: she was a very bright light here. I love her.
ETA:
Trike wrote: "Why was Shadout Mapes even in the flick? She’s there for all of three minutes."
In the book, Mapes has three main points: to hand Jessica the crysknife and exposite the prophesy behind it, start the exposition about the bull and Leto's father, and finally, warn about the treachery from Yueh. The movie establishes two of the three via Mapes.
According to Quinn's Ideas on Youtube, Paul's visions (view spoiler). He also says the voices Paul hears toward the end are (view spoiler). The black guy isn't the (view spoiler), right?
Leesa wrote: "In the book, Mapes has three main points: to hand Jessica the crysknife and exposite the prophesy behind it, start the exposition about the bull and Leto's father, and finally, warn about the treachery from Yueh. The movie establishes two of the three via Mapes."Exactly. If she’s that important, why the short shrift? Either expand the role or give her plot points to someone else.
It just feels like they were more concerned with hitting the highlights of the book instead of telling a satisfying story. It’s just, “here’s a person, they say a line, next!” “Here’s a person, they say a line, next!” Give the story a chance to breathe.
And the thing is, it’s not even that difficult to give someone screen time. Look at Dr. Yue, for example: he also gets only a few minutes, but each time he’s on they give him a little something to do. Shadout could’ve been shown in the Harkonnen household, named by someone. 30 seconds. Then featured in the welcoming crowd scene, 20 seconds, boom. Then when she turns up to serve Jessica, you’re wondering, “Is this person there to kill Jessica?” It adds no screen time. You’re just shifting focus from an extra to a named character.
I don’t know what it is about Dune, but it just encourages bad filmmaking choices for some reason. All three adaptations have issues like this, but they’re all different.
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Books mentioned in this topic
Dune (other topics)Frank Herbert's Dune: The Graphic Novel, Book 1 (other topics)
Seven Pillars of Wisdom: A Triumph (other topics)
https://youtu.be/C4xZqhjtJcQ
I’m interested in the film, but that is a terrible trailer. So cliché.