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[2021] Poll 12 Results
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I'll wait until the first round of books go up for the GR awards before creating the listopia!
I like both of these and I hope to see the close call get another chance :)
I voted for Made-up place but overall the winners are safe and easy to fill for me. I voted for book with a non-binary/trans/+ author or character mostly because I think it needs to be supported so that representation becomes a norm and not a potentially tricky prompt for a book group. I will vote for it if it comes around again.
I love to find books set in outer space this was an upvote for me so a little bummed it didn't make it. I never make it to the suggestion in time but would support this if it comes around again.
A book related to a local industry or small business isn't a big deal for me either way so fine with it being in the bottom.
I’m kinda surprised with the results. I thought we would have more winners and that made-up place was in the top. I have no problems with it and it will be nice for me to have an easy to fill prompt. I did expect GR awards to make it, I always like this prompt more in the middle of the voting period than in a pre-poll. Probably, since I’m not a fan having a pre-poll in general.
Mod
I'll probably do a Flavia de Luce for the made-up place, since Bishop's Lacey isn't a real village in England, as far as I can tell.I fear set in outer space won't get in now that we have made-up place but I can try submitting it for a third time in a later poll.
"Set in a made-up place" covers pretty much all speculative fiction. Since I read quite a lot of sci-fi and fantasy I find it a rather uninspiring prompt. I downvoted the gr award and am disappointed it made the list. I find it especially irksome that we can't even do anything with the prompt until November when the list is released.
Oh well. Hopefully the next round of voting will yield some prompts that are more fun and interesting.
I voted for both of the winners, so I'm a happy camper. I hope we see the non-binary/trans/+ author or character prompt resubmitted. It made sense to me the way it was worded, but if it was unclear to others, maybe different wording will help.
I'll be using the made up place spot for some fantasy or science fiction, though I guess there are plenty of real world novels set in made up towns too, for those who prefer contemporary fiction.Considering how bad I've been at keeping up with new releases this year, I'm sure I'll have loads of options for GR Choice Awards.
Just finished reading Mayor of Casterbridge, set in the made up town of Casterbridge in the fictional county of Wessex, as all Hardy novels are. Guess I could read another Hardy next year just to avoid the cliche of a fantasy novel
Certainly happy with the winners, but I really wish the non-binary/trans prompt had made it! Oh well, I can always keep seeking that out on my own, I guess.
dalex wrote: ""Set in a made-up place" covers pretty much all speculative fiction. Since I read quite a lot of sci-fi and fantasy I find it a rather uninspiring prompt..."I read a lot of speculative fiction set in real places...
Emily wrote: "Samantha, I will probably end up using a book set in space for the made-up place prompt. Whatever spaceship/planet they are on is probably not a real place and definitely not a real place where peo..."Great idea!
I was so excited for nuns! :(My plan for the made-up place listopia is to add books in made-up Earth locations, for those who aren't SFF fans.
I have to admit, I'm really disappointed that non-binary/trans/+ prompt didn't make it in. I agree that the wording can be changed to be more inclusive to the intent, but I think it's generally clear to most of the people voting.
It seems like people just don't like it enough or don't think it's an important area to expand reading for, which is just sad to me.
I like these winners. I always enjoying looking through the GR awards at the end of the year and always find something I want to read. I also don't mind the made-up place even though I didn't vote for it. I like how it covers all kinds of genres and is not limited to sci-fi/fantasy as I'm not a big fan of those.
I agree that the intent is clear and some people just don't want to vote for it. I'm disappointed as well, but TBH, not surprised. There was push back on this prompt in PopSugar as well, from people who are close-minded.
Mod
Mod
I'll wait until the first round of books go up for the GR awards before creating the listopia!"
Lots of historical fiction/historical romance is set on an estate or in a village that doesn't really exist.
Robin P wrote: "I agree with supporting underrepresented areas but I would appreciate suggestions of what to read for the non-binary/trans/+ prompt. I have read some books that would fit it, such as [book:This Is ..."We posted examples in both threads.
Poll 8: Message 32 I gave some example links: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Poll 12: Emily posted links that were in the Message 2 and I posted some others in Message 41: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Disappointing that trans/nb didn’t make it, though I think the way it was presented versus the wording of the prompt itself confused a lot of people as to what the prompt was actuallly asking for. So a close call sounds about right.I’m a little annoyed Goodreads Choice did make it in, even though I understand that it’s inclusion is pretty much inevitable. I always have a real difficulty picking a book for that one and don’t have much respect for the award in general since it’s straight up a popularity contest and there’s no requirement that people read every nominee before they vote. So people just vote for the book they’ve read, or for some genres it’s just the book they’ve heard of. I really didn’t like the book I read for this year’s GRC prompt (Gideon the Ninth) so I’m feeling extra gloomy for next year’s.
Keep in mind the nonbinary/trans/+ prompt is character or author, and there are quite a few authors that fit.Here's the Listopia from Pop Sugar, the prompt there was author but I'm sure many books contain both.
For character, there's these that I've read recently:
The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet by Becky Chambers
The Vanishing Half by Brit Bennett
Most of Faulkner's novels are set in fictional Yoknapatawpha County, MS.
There's also any Stephen King book set in Castle Rock, which does not exist in Maine.
Nancy wrote: "Keep in mind the nonbinary/trans/+ prompt is character or author, and there are quite a few authors that fit.Some ideas:
Freshwater by Akwaeke Emezi
Pet by Akwaek..."
Hey, quick question! I just finished The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet and wouldn't categorize any of the characters as nonbinary/trans/+ exactly. Were you referring to the author here?
I have to say, I’m kind of bummed. I am happy with the winners, and I think I even voted for both of them, but I really wish the non-binary/trans/+ author or character prompt has made it, and I wish we had more winners overall. This is the fourth round of voting in a row that only had one or two winners, and there were four others earlier (including the pre-poll) that only had one or two winners, as well. I feel like we have had so many good suggestions lately, and it’s sad to see that there are so few making it into the top spots.
I'm not sure how accurate it is but I get the sense that trans/NB/+ rep is much easier to find in SFF and YA, so I wonder if people specifically need recs outside that to be swayed? I haven't really looked at the lists because I think it's an easy prompt but if you need the lists maybe they're not helping?What sort of books are you looking for?
No, Dr Chef, whose species starts out female and then transitions to male, and Ohan, the Sianat Pair, could be considered a nonbinary character, especially since they use they as their pronoun. I also would consider both Jenks and Rosemary to be somewhere in that spectrum.
Alicia wrote: "I have to admit, I'm really disappointed that non-binary/trans/+ prompt didn't make it in.I agree that the wording can be changed to be more inclusive to the intent, but I think it's generally clear to most of the people voting.
It seems like people just don't like it enough or don't think it's an important area to expand reading for, which is just sad to me."
I don't think people are necessarily opposed to the idea of the prompt. It's just one that requires a good bit of research. It's just not something you can know unless you find the book on a list somewhere or read an article about the author or something.
Even after reading a book you might not know it fits. Like Nancy said The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet would fit. I read and loved that book and had no idea it would work for this prompt!
And, personally, I really don't care what an author's gender or orientation is. It's just meaningless to me in choosing and/or enjoying a book.
I am so not excited about the made up place prompt. I know there are non-speculative fiction options, but I think it makes it harder to find them, unless they're famously made up, like some that those have mentioned in the comments. But maybe as I do my searching, I won't find that to be the case.
dalex wrote: "Alicia wrote: "I have to admit, I'm really disappointed that non-binary/trans/+ prompt didn't make it in.I agree that the wording can be changed to be more inclusive to the intent, but I think it..."
I would argue it's not important what race an author is either, but the importance of expanding the types of authors we read and bringing attention to minority authors (especially the new focus on black authors) is widely accepted. I think the same goes for the TQIA+ community, and having their own voices be part of regular reading and promotion. Underrepresented authors are less likely to get the recognition and publishing benefits that straight white authors do.
I always think of this quote when discussing under-represented groups for authors (race, gender, sexuality, nationality, etc)
"If straight people read as many queer stories as queer people have been forced to read straight stories, the world would be a very different place" - Michael Earp
Katie wrote: "I am so not excited about the made up place prompt. I know there are non-speculative fiction options, but I think it makes it harder to find them, unless they're famously made up, like some that th..."I found this list to be helpful when I was researching this prompt. There are spec fic entries on here, but plenty that aren't, like Anne of Green Gables and the Miss Marple series:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...
Mod
Thanks, I'm sorry I didn't think to look back there, I will check them out!
Nancy wrote: "No, Dr Chef, whose species starts out female and then transitions to male, and Ohan, the Sianat Pair, could be considered a nonbinary character, especially since they use they as their pronoun. I..."
Ah, I see. I can understand for Dr. Chef (it's tricky to compare alien biology/identity to human biology/identity, though!) I wouldn't call Ohan nonbinary, though, since the pronoun "they" is used to reflect plurality, not ambiguity of gender. Why do you consider Jenks and Rosemary to be on that spectrum? Nothing about them stood out to me as not cisgender, but maybe I missed some hints!
I guess I'm a little skeptical about using alien characters as representatives of the trans/nonbinary/+ community. If the purpose of the prompt is to encourage us to hear from marginalized groups and understand their experiences, a fictional alien species with different biology doesn't really provide that. If the author was part of the TQIA+ community, I think I'd be more willing to see them as direct representations of the author's experience, though. So I did use The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet to fill the LGBTQIA+ prompt from this year, as Becky Chambers is married to a woman - I would have been a bit hesitant to use it otherwise, as the non-heterosexual relationships that happen within the book are interspecies ones as well.
I am ok with the results, not that I voted for them. I can see to some extent that the goodreads list should be there as if it wasn't for goodreads this group would not exist.
I agree the non-speculative options for the made-up prompt are bit more difficult to find as it's often not obvious that the place is fictional. It requires some digging but I have found quite a few options that I added to the Listopia. There are some patterns I came across:- Authors that do use fictional places tend to create them throughout all or much of their work (e.g. Gillian Flynn, Stephen King)
- A predominantly school/university setting is often fictional (e.g. The Secret History). This also applies to residences like stately homes, apartment buildings etc. (e.g. Rebecca, Nightingale Point)
- If the town/location is a major focus of the book (and is not an obviously real place), particularly in the title, it may be fictional (e.g. Miracle Creek)
Hopefully this makes it a little easier to pick some out when looking through TBRs.
Mod
If I'm feeling more adventurous I might try to go for something more fantasy-based like Lord of the Rings where literally all the places are made up.
I have a personal book map to track the locations of everything I read, which means that I often discover unexpectedly made up places when I go to find them on my map! The last several I discovered were:Normal People is set in a fictional town, Carricklea, in the real county of Ireland, Sligo.
To The Bright Edge of the World is about explorers traveling the fictional Wolverine River, in real Alaska.
The Bear and the Nightingale is set in the fictional village of Lesnaya Zemlya, in real Russia.
Where the Crawdads Sing is set in the fictional town of Barkley Cove, in real North Carolina.
And Then There Were None is set on fictional Soldier Island, off the coast of real England.
All of Gillian Flynn's books are set in fictional towns in the midwest, as mentioned above.
Dandelion Wine is set in the fictional Green Town, Illinois, which is likely based off of Ray Bradbury's real hometown, Waukegan, Illinois.
The Book Thief is set in fictional Molching, Germany (though there is an Olching, Germany)
Shutter Island is set on fictional Shutter Island, off the coast of Massachusetts.
On Beauty is set in fictional Wellington, Massachusetts, where the characters attend and work at the fictional Wellington University.
Animal Dreams is set in fictional Grace, Arizona.
Kurt Vonnegut Jr. tends to set his books in a series of fictional places: Ilium, New York, and Rosewater, Indiana are repeated fictional places of his, as well as fictional Caribbean country San Lorenzo, from Cat's Cradle.
To Kill a Mockingbird is set in fictional Maycomb, Alabama.
Emma is set in fictional Highbury, England.
Okay, that was more than several. Point is, definitely possible to come up with many non-speculative fiction options for this prompt, and I'm sure our listopia and weekly discussion will help anyone who needs it!
Kelly wrote: "I was so excited for nuns! :(LOL me too. But it must be a rare enthusiasm :)
I would consider alien/interspecies relationships to be included in the + part of the label (label might be the wrong term and if it is I apologize). So Jenks falling for Lovey, who's an AI, and Rosemary for Sissix, who's another species. It could fall under pansexual, or perhaps another part of the queer community I'm not as familiar with.The Wikipedia page for the book has the quote "a feel-good tale of non-conformity, gender fluidity, multiculturalism and unorthodox sexual relationships," so for me, that means it falls into the umbrella for the prompt.
None of my up votes made it through which is a bit of a bummer. On the upside none of my downvotes got through either. My success rate so far (in terms of prompts that made it that I voted for) is just under 33%.
For the trans prompt " a character or author who is has a minority sexual or gender identity."
If we are to be a group that embraces diversity, then it is very important to remember that people have diverse motives for participating in this challenge, preferring certain prompts over others, and choosing books they want to read.Just because someone did not vote for or voted against the nonbinary/trans/+ prompt (or any other prompt) doesn’t mean that they are close minded or noninclusive or don’t feel that diversity matters.
There are many reasons why one might not vote for it or vote against it. Here are some examples
1) they do not have access to a great library collection
2) they do this challenge to read more books, not necessarily more diverse books
3 ) they do this challenge to read more books that they already enjoy that might not have a diverse set of characters (e.g., classics, cozy mysteries, world war 2 novels, harlequin romances or other genres in which this population is not featured much)
4) they want to read books they already own or that are on their tbr list and they happen not to have any at the moment
5) they don’t have the time to research much, and as Dalex pointed out, this prompt requires research.
6) they live somewhere where access to these books might be limited
If people want to increase the diversity of their own reading, that’s great, the more power to them. However, it’s important to recognize that not everyone has that motive, and that’s ok too.
I think that Dalex and Ellie are correct, a listopia that includes a wide variety of books from many genres might help people find books, which might make it more likely that they would vote for it. Making assumptions about the character of people who don’t vote for it, won’t help get it voted in and in my opinion, goes against the spirit of diversity.
Sophie wrote: "If we are to be a group that embraces diversity, then it is very important to remember that people have diverse motives for participating in this challenge, preferring certain prompts over others, ..."I completely agree with you Sophie. Well said.
Sophie wrote: "If we are to be a group that embraces diversity, then it is very important to remember that people have diverse motives for participating in this challenge, preferring certain prompts over others, ..."I agree, Sophie. I was a little offended by the original post.
I really wanted the Goodreads Choice awards downvoted. I just looked at the list so far and do you realize that 90% of the books are fantasy and sci-fi. That leaves me 10% to choose from. A little limiting I think. And then every book has to be clicked on to find one you might like to read. Any list takes forever to find a book. The other prompts you can narrow down the search on the library search bar or on goodreads. Please no more lists.
Ann, the Goodreads Choice awards has not come out yet for 2020. It will have many categories that are not fantasy or sci-fi. I'm not sure you are looking at the correct award. I'm not a fan of lists myself. The negatives I see with it are that the books were published in 2019 & Nov./Dec. 2018 and the the award tends to feel like a popularity contest. It is a pretty genre diverse prompt.
Jackie, we don't have a listopia yet for the Goodreads Award. Emily is waiting for the first round of nominees.
Mod
Which makes sense. Ann, what list are you talking about for the gr choice awards that's all scifi and fantasy?
Around the Year in 52 Books
Books mentioned in this topic
Transcendent Kingdom (other topics)Piranesi (other topics)
Normal People (other topics)
To The Bright Edge of the World (other topics)
And Then There Were None (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Susanna Clarke (other topics)Gillian Flynn (other topics)
Kurt Vonnegut Jr. (other topics)
Gillian Flynn (other topics)
Stephen King (other topics)
Winners
A winner or nominee from the 2020 Goodreads Choice Awards
A book set in a made-up place
Close call
A book with a non-binary/trans/+ author or character
this truly dipped in and out of the top three throughout the week so maybe some workshopping of the wording is in order
Polarizing
A book about or set in outer space
Bottom
A book related to a local industry or small business
Poll 13 suggestions will open tomorrow morning (CST), looking forward to seeing you all then!