Paranormal Romance & Urban Fantasy discussion

Folks: When you read a book that has sparkling characters and a great plot, but has truly horrible technical errors (grammatical, spelling, incorrect word choices, etc.), how do you rate it?

I'm reading a "Mafia Romance" book now (yeah, I've branched out from Paranormal Romance) that already has me wondering how I'm going to rate it. I'm ready to give it a one star rating just because the technical errors are so egregious, but I would give it a five star rating for the characters and plot (both have really captured me and are the only reasons I will finish the novel).

How do you all solve this dilemma?

Thanks!
Nancy

It still features as part of my rating and review if I write one. A lack in the editing process is an insult to me as a reader, and if it lets down an otherwise great book shows a lack of self-awareness on behalf of the author.

Thanks for the response, kittykat. I totally agree re: the insult. How hard is it to write proper English?! And where the heck were her editors/proofreaders?!

But, how much weight re: a rating?

Do I judge the novel on the lack of technical skills, or on the brilliance of her character development/plot, or somewhere in-between?

Thanks again. Really appreciate the response.

Nancy

I would maybe contact the writer first before writing the bad review. It could be that the writer is a new indie author, maybe lacked funds of an editor. I dont know their circumstances etc. Im a fellow writer and when I wrote our first book I thought the book was sound. I then got arc/beta readers to check it out and as it was at this stage they were honest with me about the editing and bits where it lacked the depth which pushed me to take another look and I was so grateful for that chance to make my book better. That is what I would do for this writer and if they shun u or ignore u and not take solid advice from a reader then put your honest rating and review. Least then u gave them a chance to correct a ok book and make it great.

I would split the rating tho in the comments. Rate overall if story like a 5 but editing 1 then I would go 2.5 and meet in the middle but then comment and say story is 5 but editing is 1 and that they need to revisit it

Thank you for both of your comments, Jessica.

You know, I did a google search for the author's bio, on the off chance that English wasn't her native language. Didn't discover much, so your suggestion of contacting her directly is what I'll do next.

Good on you, by the way, for having an open mind and for wanting to make your work better. I have a lot of respect for you!

Regards,
Nancy

If the editing is bad I will never rate a book over 2 stars. I will say right at the start what is great about it, but if they can't be bothered to edit it's an insult

I disagree with contacting the author. Some authors are a nasty piece of work, and like bad singers, refuse to listen to anything constructive. Yes, self publisher’s forgo the expense of an editor but that doesn’t mean that readers should take up that slack for them as an unpaid editor. Personally I believe unedited books that haven’t been looked over by a professional editor (or at least competent one) are an unfinished product and should come with a warning label “Some Assemble Required.”

I can over look a few errors. I usually highlight them so that the author, when looking at my review, they will have access to my notes and highlights and know exactly what those errors are. So there is no need to contact them.

As for the ratings, I usually deduct a star if it's a few small infractions. If the book is littered with them, than I feel they really didn’t take to effort to fix them or seek out other ways to have their work looked over properly. Those books get another star deducted.

However, there are those that I will rate even lower if the author has the nerve to charge me over $2.99 for a book (regardless of page #), that in my opinion is incomplete.

I have a self published author that has a great series going. But one of the books I read contained so many errors, plot wholes, and riddled with the exact same description for one character that an editor would have caught it and said, “don’t do that. It’s not clever or funny and will only annoy readers.” After paying $7.99 for this one book, I was livid by the professionalism put into her product (not to mention that by book 9 she should have been able to hire an editor by then). My review clearly indicated my stance and reflected it with a 2 star. I clearly indicated that I would happily change my ratings when those things were corrected/addressed.

I know it might sound harsh, but as a paying reader, I expect a finished product for my hard earned money. I shouldn’t have to pay for something that causes great effort to read and causes undo anxiety.

One last thing, if the author indicates that they used an editor (usually in a thank you portion of a book) and there is still an abundance of obvious editing issues, it’s automatically a 2 star. For those, I just believe that the writer is being not being very truthful about having an editor. I’ve actually came across a few of these and there's no way an editor ever touched those pages.

@Jessica, you are probably the very few reasonable writers that would take criticism and use it to further their writing skills (not something that occurs very often). Not a lot of writers do. For that reason alone I thank you for not using it to lash out at readers or to try and bully them and others until they take down their honest reviews (and there's not many of those left around either). It’s truly appreciated.

Jessica wrote: "I would maybe contact the writer first before writing the bad review. It could be that the writer is a new indie author, maybe lacked funds of an editor. I dont know their circumstances etc. Im a f..."

This is the exact position I found myself in, I couldn't afford an editor. Two years went by and I still couldn't afford it. I wasn't quite prepared and I've made many rookie mistakes. But, it's all a learning curve in my opinion. I am now in discussion with a start-up editor, and trying to obtain Beta reader's, so we have a team of people working together. I did research this process, but in all the blogs, forums and other sites I researched GR as a resource for struggling writer's was not mentioned. I have found so many helpful and supportive people here my only regret is that I didn't think of looking here in the first place.

Every reader deserves a finished product and I hope to learn from them. Positive or negative. Improving as a writer and getting better at what I love to do is the only goal. I'm learning everyday from my rookie mistakes, but I won't make them again!

Sarah wrote: "Jessica wrote: "I would maybe contact the writer first before writing the bad review. It could be that the writer is a new indie author, maybe lacked funds of an editor. I dont know their circumsta..."

Just another resource to look into, try Wattpad. I am aware that there are beta groups lurking somewhere in there that would help (I never used one but some writers mentioned it). Its a something to explore at least. Also try college boards and seek out avid readers who might be interested in editing a book before it’s published (something similar to netgally).

There’s also a large workshop for writers but their name (or it’s known preferred acronym) alludes me. Something like WoMa...Something....something... (sorry just coming up blank here).

Oh, and try your local libraries. Most of them have something designed towards writers like classes/workshops and special events. Most of them are free and those that aren’t are usually very affordable.

Cozen wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Jessica wrote: "I would maybe contact the writer first before writing the bad review. It could be that the writer is a new indie author, maybe lacked funds of an editor. I dont know t..."

Oh, thanks for the advice! I'll go there right now, much aprreciated : )

Sarah wrote: "Cozen wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Jessica wrote: "I would maybe contact the writer first before writing the bad review. It could be that the writer is a new indie author, maybe lacked funds of an editor...."


NaNoWriMo I figured it out. I’m not a member myself but they say it’s free. I’d look into what they offer.

https://nanowrimo.org/

What Is NaNoWriMo?
National Novel Writing Month began in 1999 as a daunting but straightforward challenge: to write 50,000 words of a novel in thirty days. Now, each year on November 1, hundreds of thousands of people around the world begin to write, determined to end the month with 50,000 words of a brand new novel. They enter the month as elementary school teachers, mechanics, or stay-at-home parents. They leave novelists.

NaNoWriMo officially became a nonprofit organization in 2006, and our programs support writing fluency and education. Our website hosts more than a million writers, serving as a social network with author profiles, personal project libraries, and writing buddies. NaNoWriMo tracks words for writers like Fitbit tracks steps, and hosts real-world writing events in cities from Mexico City, to Seoul, to Milwaukee with the help of 900+ volunteers in thousands of partnering libraries and community centers like… well, like nothing else.

NaNoWriMo is internet-famous. It’s community-powered (hello, Wrimos!). It’s hosted authors drafting novels like Water for Elephants, WOOL, and Fangirl. It’s a teaching tool and curriculum taught in 5,920 classrooms, and NaNoWriMo’s programs run year-round.

Whatever you thought NaNoWriMo is, it’s more than that.” - From their website.

Thanks ladies for sound advice im still a the early stage of my writing career and by no means an expert but I think its crucial to hear out your readers thoughts otherwise what would be the point of having beta readers. Im still trying to find a reasonably decent editor within my affordability. I did get one with book 1. In my eyes as a writer I only want the best for my book and I then bring that when I'm reading it and if I think when reading that there are serious plot holes or mistakes I probs wouldn't overlook them but would contact them about it. I dont tend to buy many books I pick them up on kindle unlimited to make use of my membership so with the cost aspect I again see your point @cozen I would be annoyed too.

We'll, since we're talking about editors/proofreaders, how does one go about volunteering to beta a novel? I would love to do that. And, I have experience at a major newspaper, plus proofing/editing corporate publications. And, I'd do everything for free! :)

Thanks again to all who have replied. I've sent a message to the author and will wait a little while to see if I hear back from her, then I'll rate the novel.

Nl clarke can I pm you plz happy to take up your offer as a beta reader. Always looking for someone honest to read my books

Hi again, not sure if you are still looking for responses on this but it is a particular pet peeve of mine, hence my much lengthier reply this time.

Cozen wrote: "... I know it might sound harsh, but as a paying reader, I expect a finished product for my hard earned money. I shouldn’t have to pay for something that causes great effort to read and causes undo anxiety. ..."

I could not agree more with this, but with two caveats;
💥 even if a book is free, I expect that I am being presented with a "finished product" unless I'm told categorically otherwise (ie that it is a WIP), but
💥 I can allow for a few minor typos/grammatical issues for lesser known/newer authors without it affecting my opinion of the book, so long as they are not overly egregious.

TBH I do think I'm a tad more forgiving than many readers, so when I come across those that make my eyes cross, I do get so frustrated. I've read too many that were close to being unreadable because of the array of errors of all sorts, many of which just totally ruined what is an otherwise entertaining and or even great book, based on the premise and/or the characters. I've even read some where it literally seems like two totally different books were just stuck together and the change in the story makes absolutely no sense, (even though other people have raved about them?).

Also, I'm a huge advocate for indie publishing and lets face it, the majority (but not ALL) such books are from indie authors and I'm utterly fed up with the snobbery in the bookish world that picks on a handful of the worst perpetrators of these crimes and brandishes all indie books with the same brush. Especially when, IMO, many of the indie authors are offering far superior stories and characters to the same old same old that is recycled by the trads, especially in many different sug-genres of romance and fantasy.

When subpar books are published, it annoys TF out of me as that rubs off on indie authors and their books across the board. I've seen this argument play out in so many conversations especially in the romance space, with so many people refusing point blank to ever pick up an indie book ever againg becasue of a few bad experiences. It will definately affect my overall opinion of the book, and would be totally disingenuous to not consider that in my R&R process, even if I don't categorically state it any any qritten review.

Like Couzen, I don't feel that it is my responsibilty to contact an author regarding issues with their book once it is published. Not because of negative reactions, but going back to the whole if I bought/acquired it from free then I expect that I'll be getting a finished article and as such my feedback will on that basis. I also feel that whilst there is a big thing about revews being for other readers and not for authors to insert themselves into the discussion of (which I do agree with), fo new authors they can actualy learn a lot from readers criticising particular issues with either the writing or the content, especially those with very few written reviews.

This may also be harsh, esecially for new authors, but I liken it to buying something from the Pound Shop (Dollar Store). It might not be as good, but it should still do the minimum of what it should.

#sorry, rant over.

Cozen - re: NOT contacting the author...ooopsie - already done.

Anyway, I'm aware that not every author has the same viewpoint as Jessica does (and Sarah, too! Good on you, too, Sarah!!!). I hope I can take an "eff U" with a bit of grace, if that's how the author wants to reply to me. (I'll just give her novel a one-star and be done with it...KIDDING!)

Re: highlighting the errors - I tried that with a "sports romance" novel where the author totally blew it regarding the college Bowl Championship Series (and who thought that the Fiesta Bowl was played in Orlando! Seriously?!?) Anyway, I got reamed by a fan of the author (who I think was actually the author), so I'm not going to go that route again. :-( I can get crazier with my highlights and comments if I think that no one is actually gonna read 'em.

And, I should note that I'm a Kindle Unlimited subscriber. I'm retired and on a budget, so I rarely pay anything other than the monthly subscription fee for any of the books I read. It would make me veeeerrry angry to have paid good $$$ for a novel/series that was shot full of technical errors! On the plus side of the Unlimited subscription, I have (haphazardly) come across some really GREAT novels and authors, so I'm happy with what I have. (In spite of the budget, being retired is GREAT! I highly recommend it to everyone!)

Hope all of you stay healthy and happy in this new year - and I thank you again for your replies!

Regards,
Nancy

NL wrote: "... Re: highlighting the errors - I tried that with a "sports romance" novel where the author totally blew it regarding the college Bowl Championship Series (and who thought that the Fiesta Bowl was played in Orlando! Seriously?!?) Anyway, I got reamed by a fan of the author (who I think was actually the author), so I'm not going to go that route again. :-( I can get crazier with my highlights and comments if I think that no one is actually gonna read 'em. ..."

IGNORE or block them. If people can't accept your opinion of something you have read, they are not worthy of your time or energy, but that should not stop you giving your opinions in your review. That is exactly what a review is.

kittykat (Jo Tortitude) wrote: "Hi again, not sure if you are still looking for responses on this but it is a particular pet peeve of mine, hence my much lengthier reply this time.

Cozen wrote: "... I know it might sound harsh, ..."

Your comments resonated with me, Jo!

I can be forgiving – IF I stumble over just a few errors AND the characters and plot have really grabbed me. If, on the other hand, I’m having to stop every other page to tease out exactly what the author is trying to say… pffft… to heck with the sparkling characters and scintillating plot, I…AM…DONE!

Then I start feeling guilty.

I know from experience how hard it is to write and to create (especially when on a deadline!). I think to myself that I’m not perfect and that I’ve been here, too. So, then, I really start second-guessing myself…am I being too harsh; but then again, shouldn’t I EXPECT that this work has been run through editors and proofreaders, especially if this work has been “put on the market”… hence, my “how do I rate this” post.

I really appreciate the info you (and others) have provided regarding indie writers and publishers. I want to encourage those folks as best I can, not tear them down.

Anyway, your “rant” has been well-received on this end. I appreciate (and applaud) your perspective. Granted, contacting the author about the errors shouldn’t be my responsibility; however, I thought it might be worth a shot, in this case. I’d have given anything to have done a beta read on this novel, for this author. Naïve, maybe, but all my friends will tell you that’s how I roll… ;)

Thanks, Jo, for the discussion – and your passion.

Wishing you much success – and if I could ever help you along the way, please give me a holler!

Nancy

kittykat (Jo Tortitude) wrote: "Hi again, not sure if you are still looking for responses on this but it is a particular pet peeve of mine, hence my much lengthier reply this time.

Cozen wrote: "... I know it might sound harsh, ..."

Totally on board with the Indie crowd bringing life back into books that have been done (if only Hollywood could achieve such a feat- they haven’t had an original idea in over a few decades now.)

With the exception of Contemporary. They have played so much on the Virgin Zombie (are Mary Jane) and Manwhore plot, filled with over the top unnecessary angsty drama, I won’t even get close to ever touching one ever again. PR, I’m always looking for something extra from them. It’s how Suzanne Wright wiggled/snuck her way onto my shelves without knowing she was an Indie writer.

NL wrote: "kittykat (Jo Tortitude) wrote: "Hi again, not sure if you are still looking for responses on this but it is a particular pet peeve of mine, hence my much lengthier reply this time.

Cozen wrote: "...."

You’re still kind of a newbie here so it would be interesting what your stance is in say 3 (?) years from now. I wonder if you’d feel the same.

“ I hope I can take an "eff U" with a bit of grace, if that's how the author wants to reply to me. (I'll just give her novel a one-star and be done with it...KIDDING!)”

Yea, let’s hope that’s all they do. Some may find out where you live and show up on your doorstep. Yea... that’s actually happened before. I did mention how nasty some writers can be. 😒

Cozen wrote: "NL wrote: "kittykat (Jo Tortitude) wrote: "Hi again, not sure if you are still looking for responses on this but it is a particular pet peeve of mine, hence my much lengthier reply this time.

Coze..."

That is a scary thought, I actually read a thread on here yesterday of a reviewer asking for help from GR to get a certain writer's book removed due to consistant harassment. He is calling women terrible names online because of their reviews and threatening them. He said he can get their addresses from Amazon and come find them! She contacted Amazon over a month ago and nobody has even replied to her which is why she has reached out to GR! She is desperate for help and I felt really bad for her. I wanted to comment even reassuring her that we can't see their address when someone buys a book from an author, and I also wanted to voice how worrying this was coming from another woman.

I really can't comprehend why an author would attack one of their reader's, even if they didn't like the book they are not your enemy. Good reviews is great obviously, but can a writer really learn anything from them? I myself will expect to learn more from the readers that didn't like my work, and I know you can't please everyone, but if they are valid points that are being made wouldn't you want to improve your craft!?

There should be regulations to protect reviewer's from this kind of treatment, writer's should be banned from selling on the platform for this behaviour in my opinion.

Thanks for the earlier tips and advice above! They are valuable to someone like me.

Sarah wrote: "Cozen wrote: " I really can't comprehend why an author would attack one of their reader's, even if they didn't like the book they are not your enemy"

Because they believe that their sh*t don’t stink and feel above anyone’s opinion on their writing? See Ann Rice and her comment on people who review her books. It’s not pretty and her arrogance towards her reading fans is a neon sign.

There writer’s how lay the excuse that their ghost writers are the ones who have been plagiarizing other authors and she knew nothing of it. Not that having ghost writers writing her books and her taking all the credit for them isn’t bad enough. O_o

There are also writers who attack and bully other authors like LJ Shen who’s currently lightening up twitter with authors that are coming out about being bullied by her. Her PR firm (whatever you want to call them) is also working very hard to bury this story

https://www.instagram.com/romancelandia/

Buzzfeed places Goodreaders reviewers not in such a good light because they can cancel out writers and their careers too easily (don’t like it when the cancel culture isn’t favorable to your side, hm?). I just finished reading their more favorable article supporting Kathleen Hale writing come back, pretty much saying it’s all forgiven and she’s back now so get over the reasons she was pretty much ousted by GR and it’s members. Also making it seem like her actions wasn’t that bad and a misjudgment on her youthful self (she was 27 at that time.)

Why include this in this thread, well because I think it needs to be said but GR readers are protective of the reviewers and against writers that cross a line of acceptable behavior. With exceptions to those who seem overly protective of those said writers (meaning they’re more likely the writer’s friends and family... or even them playing a random reviewer).

Also there are writers that partake in fraudulent behaviors and practices in order to gain the upper hand in getting their books sold. Like buying reviews, pushing negative reviews down to the bottom, and creating fictitious awards won. Hiring firms to stake the reviews (why I don’t trust any 4 or 5 star review now.)

They’ll do anything so that their books will generate money.

We are only aware of these things when these writers do stupid things like e-mail the reviewer their plans to have their reviews pushed down or deleted (should have a series The dumbest writers like that old t.v. Program on dumb criminals). Or when those stalker writers blog about how they stalked a reviewer who wrote something neg about their book- even though no one would have been the wiser of it if she hadn’t blogged about it in the first place. And she blames the reviews for her almost destroyed career🙄

So just be careful but never be afraid to write your honest feeling about a book. GR members (most of them) have your back.

Cozen wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Cozen wrote: " I really can't comprehend why an author would attack one of their reader's, even if they didn't like the book they are not your enemy"

Because they believe that their ..."

I never knew that about Anne Rice, but I have seen a lot of author's who have reached the top becoming quite arrogant about their writing. I know a lot of people may say this, but as a writer it really shouldn't be about the money. It should be about the recognition of your work and the fact so many people love the stories, world's and character's you are creating.

People don't remember the likes of Jane Austen because of her wealth - she was dead before her work really reached it's peak anyway. Her name has lived on because of her writing and that is the ultimate dream for any writer I'd say.

Some of the thing's you've just told me are shocking, who in their right mind blogs about harassing a reviewer lol

Wow. Didn't know about the "dark side."

I need to be more careful in the future.

Thanks for opening my eyes!

It may help to break down and grade. For example assessing the book based on key areas such as spelling and grammar, plot, writing style and how engaging/ entertaining the book is. Each area could then be rated and averaged for the overall rating.
Also leaving a review along with your rating may also help the author to improve their book. I believe that most authors don't set out to insult their readers but may have had a rocky start, especially a new and independent author like myself. The editing resources may not be readily available staring out. However, over time utilizing both positive and critical reviews, improvements should be achieved.

J. wrote: "It may help to break down and grade. For example assessing the book based on key areas such as spelling and grammar, plot, writing style and how engaging/ entertaining the book is. Each area could ..."

I couldn't agree with you more, every writer starts off their journey struggling to find the finances and/or resources - hence the term struggling writer. It's a jungle out there, but if we continue to support one another we'll get there in the end.

Happy writing : )

I'd rate it like a piece of art. If the story was good enough that the technical problems didn't bother you, go higher, but mention in the review that the story had a lot of grammatical errors so people go in knowing what to expect.

If there technical errors were so imposing they actually damaged your reading experience and you couldn't understand what was happening in the story, the grammatical errors matter. If it didn't actually effect your enjoyment of the story, they don't.

Also understand not all authors are guaranteed editors or proofreaders. Those can cost thousands of dollars upfront and not every author has those resources.

I grade books on a sort of curve, I guess. The more professionals involved, the more technical prowess
I expect. But on the same foot, if I'm forgiving grammatical errors, the characters better be great.

Just wanted to say how much I appreciate the response to my "cry for help" - you all had good suggestions and I've learned a LOT from each of you.

I've decided to leave the novel unrated for now. I'll wait to see if I hear back from the author.

I haven't decided what I'll do if I do NOT hear back from the author. Either I'm going to go with an overall rating and break it down in a review (as some folks have suggested here), or I may just delete it from "My Books."

Anyway, thanks once more to all of you. Hoping you have a healthy and happy start to your respective new years!

Regards,
Nancy

NL wrote: "Folks: When you read a book that has sparkling characters and a great plot, but has truly horrible technical errors (grammatical, spelling, incorrect word choices, etc.), how do you rate it?

I'm r..."
Personally, I'd be grateful.Especially couched the way you have --"I like your book, but..."

I've heard some writers say that their books have been kicked out of Kindle because of too many "content flags," or whatever it's called including one who was kicked off by a vindictive person who marked as ungrammatical all sorts of things that weren't. {Not.Going.To}, for example, was marked as three distinct errors.

IMHO, any writer looking for a career has to learn to be grateful for criticism that is constructive and to bite their tongues with criticism that is misguided.