Catching up on Classics (and lots more!) discussion

The Waves by Virginia Woolf is a Buddy Read starting February 1, 2021. All are welcome to join.

Thanks Katy.

The Waves is considered by many to be VW's masterpiece. I am both looking forward and am intimidated. Glad to have companionship while reading.

I am in Cynda and I am happy to have company too.😊

May I join you? With an ebook version?

I am going to join in but may be slower in my reading, since I have some other commitments.

Gini wrote: "May I join you? With an ebook version?"

Yes. Any format is fine. Glad you will read with us Gini.

Looking forward to this.

I will be joining in also- it seems I make the fifth at this point, a good number.
I have read Woolf's Mrs. Dalloway, To The Lighthouse, and Orlando and also her long essay A Room of One's Own and a little short story titled A Haunted House. So obviously I like her work.
I'm planning to listen to the e-audiobook available from a library here read by Julia Franklin.

My copy has been patiently sitting next to my bed since Jan 14th. I am now happy to start within the next days ...

I wish I had noticed in time that you were reading 'Orlando' and I might have tried for that one - has been on my tbr for many years. But I didn't really keep track what's happening in the buddy read section for a while ...

The only book by Virginia Woolf I read was 'To the Lighthouse', probably about 6 or 7 years ago.

I have gotten started, a little over a third now. I find it a challenge to keep focused on it as the stream-of consciousness style wanders so much. I find I can only really sustain about 20 min of listening at a time, so will have to do that twice a day to get through.

Lilly wrote: "My copy has been patiently sitting next to my bed since Jan 14th. I am now happy to start within the next days ...

I wish I had noticed in time that you were reading 'Orlando' and I might have tr..."

Lily I will have to reread Orlando before I can review it. So much going on that I want to know more before I write a review I can live with. If you get a desire to read together VW's Orlando, private message me. We can just use the existent thread if we do decidee to read, one or both of us..

Thank you, Cynda :)
I will try to get a headstart on 'Waves' first, but 'Orlando' would be a good next project ...

Lilly wrote: "Thank you, Cynda :)
I will try to get a headstart on 'Waves' first, but 'Orlando' would be a good next project ..."

Hi Lilly. I will private message you in a few hours.

Happy to join the upcoming month. Great way to read some of the classics on my shelves. First buddy read on here, so excuse my inexperience on that part. :) Excited to see where the conversations will lead.

Here it is Feb 1st!
Here is the synopsis provided by the audiobook publisher- somewhat different than the one in "1001 Books..." :

Six children - Bernard, Susan, Rhoda, Neville, Jinny and Louis - meet in a garden close to the sea, their voices sounding over the constant echo of the waves that roll back and forth from the shore. The book follows them as they develop from childhood to maturity and follow different passions and ambitions; their voices are interspersed with interludes from the timeless and unifying chorus of nature. Widely regarded as one of Woolf' s greatest and most original works, The Waves conveys the rhythms of life in synchrony with the cycle of nature and the passage of time."

OK, let's those of us who've read some talk about it. I presume we're going to have just one thread (rather than spoiler/no spoiler threads), so I suggest we don't talk about the last part of the book for a while for the benefit of those just starting.

Oh good you have started George. I hope to start tomorrow. . . . .Yes this is the spoilers thread. A few ways to prevent spoiling the text. One use spoiler tags. Two use a header to say where you are in the text. . . . .See you tomorrorrow. Usually I use a header like this:

Reading Chapter 3

Comment. Comment. Comment.

I am hoping this character map will help me and perhaps others. Might have to scroll a tiny bit.

Just read the first segment in the garden/schoolroom. I must join George in my first impression, the constant change in perspective makes it hard to keep focused. The pictures are beautiful, but she really makes us work at them. I only read a few pages, but my head hurts (I have problems with all kinds of fast shifting things ever since a nasty concussion) ... not going to be one of my favorite books. :(

Did you notice the brilliant double meaning when Susan talks to Bernard about words and phrases? Although she is obviously talking about more than just language, both styles in narrative also follow her description at the time ...

With Lilly on that first section making a person's head hurt, but discovered the next section a totally different experience. Happily. So are those sections at the start of each "chapter" the hint for interpreting what follows? Sort of seems like it. Don't know how reliable the wiki bit I read but supposedly Woolf said in her diaries that all they characters are meant to become one. Just different aspects or phases. See if that works as I read along.

Welcome Mayke. We all all help each along. Glad you're here too.

I have borrowed the audiobook from my library's eservices. I text is shorter than many novels. I plan to listen and read the text, think on and read about the text, & then repeat. I will retirn next year to study. This year I just want to get some overall impressions and a clue on the relationships between the characters.

How are others approaching the text? I might like your way and include some of your approach. Thank you for reading with me and helping me.

I will start today.

Cynda's approach is almost the same as mine. I am listening to the Julia Franklin audiobook (strongly recommend) as I read and reviewing certain parts of the text silently. This is a novel meant to be heard as well as read, so for those just reading, I suggest doing so aloud to experience the effort Woolf put into the aural aspect of the book. I noticed when I began that this, my first read, was going to be inadequate for full understanding, so am I am just enjoying the read, gathering in my impressions of the whole, and not worrying about what I am missing from a first reading. I will not immediately reread the whole novel but I will reread the prose poem prologues that introduce each chapter sequentially and carefully. The poetic aspects of the novel go beyond those prologues and there is much to explicate, but I think I would prefer to do that with accompanying past criticism and haven't the time to indulge all that at present.

You are right, Gini, the second section is definitely more readable. I think this is because the paragraphs are longer and the focus does not shift quite to frequently.

My strategy for this work is to read only a few pages, then put the book aside and read on a little later. That way the different impressions (some of the scenes are rather intense) get time to be aired and settle. I find Woolf very adequate for silent reading. She works on rhythm and such, of course; but unlike the prose poetry by Kerouac, Jack or Stein Gertrude, or Finnegans Wake by James Joyce Woolf does not use principles like homophony or sounds, that really rely on being read aloude. Also, Waves is after all a work that was published to be read, unlike when I am reading in historic languages (medieval and ancient), that were meant to be performed orally. Those would be instances of works that I prefer to read aloude.

Has anyone any idea about Percival? Is he a kid the others encounter at school? He is not part of the first section.

I am now about halfway through the second section ...

Percival will become more revealed as you read and to reveal more will spoil I think.
As for musicality in the prose, we disagree. Her music is not as dramatic like Kerouac or Joyce, but it is subtly there if you listen. Whether this is intentional or naturally accidental I do not know. But the assonance and consonance is strong, with interesting dissonant elements to accent. IMO, Woolf tries to stimulate as many senses as possible in the reader with her word choices which is why I like her.

Thanks, Sam, I will just be patient with Percival.

I never doubted that she has rhythm (see above), which I think is what you mean by music. You have read a greater part of the novel than I, but so far I have not seen any homophone spellings or such, that would make a reading aloud necessary, although it is as always possible, as it is for any work with lyrical elements.

Good to hear that the second section is easier. I will start again today.

I have read the first section. As I listened to the audio book on my phone, I keep my two two tablets in front of me--one for the Kindle text and one for the Course Hero character map.

I sometimes stopped the audio to to take a quick look at the strangeness of the unusual descriptions VW uses. Some descriptions are telling like when "[t]he sun sharpened the walls of the house." Some descriptions are quite unexpected like when using the metaphors of the sea being like a cloth and the waves being like bars.

After I finished listening and reading the first section, I went through to review some of the unexpected descriptions. But jjst a quick re V iew. I will reread in the next few weeks.

Sam wrote: "... I noticed when I began that this, my first read, was going to be inadequate for full understanding,.."

I have been thinking the same thing since a short way into the novel- "I should probably read this again sometime (when I have less to absorb at once)". As Cynda just mentioned, Woolf used remarkable similes and metaphors, and an audiobook makes it harder to take those in also- I have gone back 30 seconds many times now in this book. It would probably be good for me to get a paper or ebook copy to read along while listening.
I'm a little over half way now- Part 5/ chapter 11.

Lilly wrote: "Has anyone any idea about Percival? Is he a kid the others encounter at school? He is not part of the first section. .."

I did download an ebook to accompany my audiobook. I don't think this constitutes a spoiler: the description in the ebook says
"It consists of soliloquies spoken by the book's six characters: Bernard, Susan, Neville, Rhoda, Jinny and Louis. Also important is Percival, the seventh character, though readers never hear him speak in his own voice".
I also found this line of interest: "As the six characters or voices speak Woolf explores concepts of individuality, self and community."

I find interesting about what you have said George: The readers never hear Percival speak for himself. O am reminded of Caddy in The Sound and the Fury How many many readers of the Sound and The Fury have created their own stories of Caddy. Many probably have of Percival too.

Pondering. The usual reason given to explain the lack of Caddy's voice is that she was too risqué. I wonder we will not hear Percival's.

Perhaps. While the readers may be disappointed and frustrared by the lack of a character's voice, I can see that lack of voice encojraging readers' fascination.

The metaphors and smilies are strange creatures here. Appearances and natures are strange, nonsensical. Since--so far--each section is started out with strange images. The writer of the calibre of VW will not publish something until it is edited to perfection. So all the words, each of the words, are intentional.

Rummaging around on YouTube, I found this gem where VW describes her theory of words. At first it confused me more, but after living with it for a few days, I am more confident that VW used these words intentionally, intentionally writing strange metaphors. I could let thoughts rumble around in my head and maybe come ti an understanding. I will start with these metaphors are intentional and mean something.

Cynda...is it possible to supply a link to the youtube mentioned above?

Gini wrote: "Cynda...is it possible to supply a link to the youtube mentioned above?"

Hi Gini. Tap or click on the green hypertext "this gem" so you can link to youtube.

George P. wrote: "I did download an ebook to accompany my audiobook. I don't think this constitutes a spoiler: the description in the ebook says"

Thank you, George :)
It is interesting to know that Percival will not be brought to the same level as the others.

@Cynda: Seeing that some intense feelings, both adoration and jealousy, are directed towards Percival, it really would be interesting to see how he himself judges the situation and where he sees his own position.
I agree that VW is probably withholding these informations for a reason yet unknown to us.

It is kind of funny, when Woolf sneaks some meta-poetical statements into her text. Here is another:

I cannot sit down to my book, like Louis, with ferocious tenacity. I must open the little trapdoor and let out these linked phrases in which I run together whatever happens, so that instead of incoherence there is perceived a wandering thread, lightly joining one thing to another.

1931 New York Times article about The Waves.

The poetic license is taken to such extremes that sometimes I am confusing metaphor with imagery (big aspect of Modernist literature). I see that VW often uses metaphor as a way of elicting imagery so the the distinction blurs. Maybe in the end it does not matter if it blurs.

Cynda wrote: "Gini wrote: "Cynda...is it possible to supply a link to the youtube mentioned above?"

Hi Gini. Tap or click on the green hypertext "this gem" so you can link to youtube."

Thanks. And apologies for missing that gem of a link. ;)

Cynda wrote: "1931 New York Times article about The Waves.

The poetic license is taken to such extremes that sometimes I am confusing metaphor with imagery (big aspect of Modernist literature). I see that VW of..."

Interesting article. A bit above where I am in criticism and review skill, and rather thorough in its opinion. It did help me with that vague sense of VW working too hard to express herself and spending too much time inside her own head.

Right Gini. Often I find that after I read the literary piece, let it settle into my awareness, then the bit of criticism or explanation that I read before starts to make a more sense, sometimes a little bit more and sometimes a good bit more. This is what charms me about reading and why I keep reading.

well, still reading and I think I will need a paper copy to scribble in for a second pass at this one.
currently, finding the more mature the cast becomes the more I can become absorbed in the reading. Last PM I devoured the sections after Percival's death. (Is that a spoiler? Think most of the synopses mention that.)

Gini wrote: "well, still reading and I think I will need a paper copy to scribble in for a second pass at this one.
currently, finding the more mature the cast becomes the more I can become absorbed in the rea..."

My reason tor not commenting on Percival was first, because he died but more because of how I see his role. I do not see him in the same way as the six characters who have narratives. He almost seems a literary device--a symbol, a metaphor, or a kind of foil, whom the others can compare to themselves or each other.

I finished the novel a few days ago. My opinion evolved as I read further. I think the last section is helpful in answering some of questions readers might have though it also raises even more. It is a novel that can be subject to almost endless interpretation. For example, I can respect Kronenberger's review that Cynda linked above, despite this being a classic novel and arguably one of the ten best English novels.

I am curious if anyone identified any particular character with Woolf, or perhaps saw them all as a composite of the various selves within Woolf?

Wow, you guys read fast. I only managed the first two sections with the six leaving school ...

But as far as I have read, I kind of agree with Sam: Percival is kind of envied, he's with the popular guys, and he is other things that the narrating character is not, or, in Bernards case, does not show the same interest into him, but seems rather careless ...
He seems to enliven other categories that are not part of the typical experiences the narrating characters seem to represent ...

@ Gini. This is a spoiler thread. Please feel free to discuss what moves you.

@ Thank you Sam. I was afraid I was missing something, the understanding of what that makes Percival so special. Now I see. Just right and just that: Percival is just as you describe him, a big something that makes this story work.

I have been away in part because we are gearing up for a deep freeze. We are not use to those here in South Texas. Now that I have checked in here with you, I am looking forward to reading and listening to the last 3 hours or so of the audiobook. 🌊🌊🌊

I'm making better progress since getting an ebook copy to read along with the audio, and will probably finish in 4 or 5 more days and am looking forward to the last part (last fifth).
I'm getting more of a sense of the individual characters and of how deliberately structured the novel is, even though it initially seemed very rambling.

wow. guess all the winter stuff has this practically on hold. finished reading this book and now what to look at it more closely. got me a paper copy. hope to start soon-ish.

I don't know that I can say I've "finished" it, but I've gotten to the end. I think I will probably read it again some day- I feel like a second reading will better allow me to follow Woolf's thoughts and ideas. It's quite an exploration of identity and how personality and sense of self change in time, how we are at once the same person and not the same person at all.
The link Cynda provided to the coursehero site I found useful not only for the small character summary but also for the chapter summaries. https://www.coursehero.com/lit/The-Wa...

If I could really follow most of the writing, I would perhaps give a five star rating, so my four star rating may be more one of myself as a reader than of the book.

Have to agree with you, George. 4 stars for the reader. It is a challenge. A second go at it might, I hope, appreciate this more. The amount of effort expended by the author doesn't translate to the work being appreciated by the general reader seems to me. So is Woolf writing to a select audience? Attempting a new style? Would this have been as challenging for readers 90 years ago?

Cynda, how are things going with this deep freeze? I'm in the DFW area and it's been "interesting".

Hi Gini. Thanks for asking. I hope you and your people have had electricity and water during this deep freeze. Some here are without water or electricity. A few have died. . . . .Better news: My parents are safe. Water pressure seems to have improved. Busses may be running again by the weekend. I am ready to coax to my succulent garden back to life. Poor succulents. They are used to very different weather conditions.