World, Writing, Wealth discussion

Norm Macdonald appearing on The View, in 2000:

https://youtu.be/Z3PP_SWHUQQ

For context, Google "Vince Foster". Thanks for the laughs, Norm.

J. wrote: "Jeffrey Toobin's Return to CNN
https://youtu.be/8noCAW7z5Bk

The first thirty seconds of this clip say everything you need to know about these people."

Well,

He is done as any moral leader. Damaged goods.

What a jerk :-)

CNN and other liberal media are finally doing honest reporting on Joe as President. It's about time, but it's sad that it comes at a cost to Americans trapped in Afghanistan.

Scout wrote: "What a jerk :-)"

Nice pun. I'm pretty sure that there's a joke to be made out of the rhetorical trick of asking, "Do you still beat your wife?" But I'm not sure how to make it without drawing the wrath of the mods.

Scout wrote: "CNN and other liberal media are finally doing honest reporting on Joe as President. It's about time, but it's sad that it comes at a cost to Americans trapped in Afghanistan."

About that...

ABC accused of cutting unflattering portions of Biden’s interview
https://nypost.com/2021/08/20/did-abc...

I saw that. George, et. al., at ABC are still trying to protect Biden. CNN not so much. A female reporter on the ground there was told by Taliban guys to cover her face; a guy with her was almost hit by a gun butt. She came on later and said that if this wasn't a failure, she didn't know what was. CNN is actually covering what's happening, for once. I hope they'll move on at some point to cover what's happening at our Southern border, which is also a Biden failure.

Papaphilly wrote: "Ian wrote: "I suspect that part of the problem is that newspaper readership is way down, and the readers that remain are a specific section of society, and as such the newspapers give them the sort..."

I hope it comes full circle. I am tired of the efforts it takes to figure out what is fact and what is not. I miss news I could trust. I can live without the feel good stuff too. If I want to find feel good stuff, I could watch Youtube cat videos or whateve.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Those feel good stories are sometimes the only light in the tunnel for some.

CBS claims 'climate change,' is the cause of the Taliban victory.

"Rural Afghanistan has been rocked by climate change. The past three decades have brought floods and drought that have destroyed crops and left people hungry. And the Taliban — likely without knowing climate change was the cause — has taken advantage of that pain.

While agriculture is a source of income for more than 60% of Afghans, more than 80% of conflicts in the country are linked to natural resources, according to a joint study by the World Food Programme, the United Nations Environment Program and Afghanistan's National Environmental Protection Agency. In 2019, Afghanistan ranked sixth in the world for countries most impacted by climate change, according to the Germanwatch Global Climate Risk Index.

Over the last 20 years, agriculture has ranged from 20 to 40% of Afghanistan's GDP, according to the World Bank. The country is famous for its pomegranates, pine nuts, raisins and more. However, climate change has made farming increasingly difficult."

REF: (CBS): https://www.cbsnews.com/news/climate-...

And yet, based on FAO data, crop yields have been trending higher in Afghanistan since 1991.

REF: https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/afgh...

A classic case of a politicised news article masquerading as a fact.

I gather poppy production increased over that period too :-(

Ian wrote: "I gather poppy production increased over that period too :-("

Indeed.

That moment when an Ivory Tower Elitist suddenly gets confronted with the world beyond the walls.

https://youtu.be/aStKY4PMJh4

J. wrote: "That moment when an Ivory Tower Elitist suddenly gets confronted with the world beyond the walls.

https://youtu.be/aStKY4PMJh4"

The sad part is she cannot see the Forrest for all the trees.

ABC NEWS STARS GET SWEPT UP IN LAWSUIT FALLOUT

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/...

TL;DR: George Stephanopoulos' producer has been accused of having committed sexual assault several years ago. It has further been asserted that Stephanopoulos knew about the assault and did nothing.

While at this time these are only accusations, I find it curious that a member of the Clinton fold is being accused of looking the other way while his boss committed a sexual assault.

J. wrote: "ABC NEWS STARS GET SWEPT UP IN LAWSUIT FALLOUT

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/...

TL;DR: George Stephanopoulos' producer has been accused of ha..."

As I have said inthese types of issues, let it runs its course.

I watched CNN tonight to see what they're now reporting on. They're back to focusing on January 6th and talking about how far-right groups have learned tactics from the Taliban. I see they're "moving on" from Biden's fiasco and back to attacking conservatives and distracting from what happened in Afghanistan, hoping people will move on and forget. Do you think this strategy will work? Or will people remember Biden's bad decisions and his leaving people behind to face the Taliban? The public does seem to be easily distracted.

I think that many of them have forgotten that the fourth estate is supposed to be on the side of the third estate.

https://youtu.be/DPYJRX9EDu8

Scout wrote: "I watched CNN tonight to see what they're now reporting on. They're back to focusing on January 6th and talking about how far-right groups have learned tactics from the Taliban. I see they're "movi..."

Afghanistan will pass, but not the bumbling and he is starting to wear on people.

Let's hope so. But he has the support of most of the news organizations that people watch daily. They're focused on moving on, and they're no longer reporting on Afghanistan. Add to that the fact that we don't have reporters in the country or any intelligence to show us what's happening there. We don't know how bad it really is for those left behind.

We don't regularly look at how bad it is for Yemen, Somalia, Ethiopia, Myanmar, Kenya, Libya, Syria, Lebanon etc.etc. Also places the USA and its allies (Saudis, Israelis, UK) has been active militarily for years.

Occasionally they flare up mostly they sit forgotten. News coverage is patchy

When living in USA I remember local news going to an International segment - it was entirely about federal matters not a single story from overseas.

The USA is such a large country geographically that it is hard living there to see outside the borders. I am sure there is coverage but it will be hard to find on US News channels. The BBC and UK News in the UK is still covering Afghanistan on every main bulletin. They have senior female correspondent still in Kabul.

Who wants to look at Yemen? It is so depressing, especially when you stop and ask why is it like that?

Let's just ignore what Biden's done and forget about the Americans, Allies, and Afghanis who helped us and have been left to be tortured and beheaded. You guys are moving on, just as the mainstream media has here, hoping that no one will remember Joe's disastrous choices when withdrawing from Afghanistan. Lots of us will remember his cowardice, stupidity, and ineptitude.

Scout wrote: "Let's just ignore what Biden's done and forget about the Americans, Allies, and Afghanis who helped us and have been left to be tortured and beheaded. You guys are moving on, just as the mainstream..."

Scout I disagree - we are not moving on. Jo's behaviour to his allies is being seen as just as contemptible as Trumps' was. We had all hoped that Biden would be different he has so far been just as bad.

It's not just Afghanistan although that was enough there remains in place trade sanctions and travel bans on Europeans. At the ceremony to commemorate 20 years since 9/11 British and European relatives were not in attendance because of the ban.

The Solheim Cup was played in front of only US fans as Europeans were not permitted entry. It will be the same for the Ryder Cup

I could go on. The news reporting in UK is almost entirely critical of Biden and his administration - a sense of deep disappointment. It's not as hostile as it was for Trump but its not far off.

There is a story that during the exit from Kabul there were people with US passports at the airport that couldn't get in to it, in part because the US had pulled pout too many troops too soon and there were not enough left to control the crowds. The Taliban were not the problem. There was one Afghan connected to NZ who did make it out, but not before she was mugged and robbed on the way there, and not by the Taliban. I am afraid Joe should have ensured all those who should have got out were given the chance before the US started drastically reducing its troop numbers.

Other issue here is last week in Kabul when evacuations were needed much earlier in areas Taliban had already taken control of. That is where Taliban has already shown its true behaviour e.g. ISIS lite. - You still end up dead but your beheading is not posted on YouTube

Philip wrote: "Scout I disagree - we are not moving on. Jo's behaviour to his allies is being seen as just as contemptible as Trumps' was. We had all hoped that Biden would be different he has so far been just as bad. ..."

As I have noted, it is part of the territory being a U.S. President. Allies criticise no matter who is in charge. It comes with the territory.

I also think this shall pass soon. Nobody really cares about Afghanistan and it will fall from the American news fast. Joe has other worries coming and I do not think he is going to be popular.

Philip, I'm happy to hear that the U.K. isn't moving on from Biden's Afghanistan fiasco. I hope that continues, and the Americans and our allies left behind are not forgotten. And, as you mention, we no longer have eyes on what's happening there, what the Taliban is doing to those they see as colluding with the U.S. We also have no way of knowing what they're planning, since we've withdrawn all our forces on the ground. Did you guys see this story?

The NYT reported this, but you can't see it without a subscription, so I found another source that reports that the drone strike to retaliate against those who killed 13 service people in Kabul actually killed an aid worker and some children. So much for "over-the-horizon" capability.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2...

And, PapaP, excusing Joe's egregious mistakes by saying that "it is part of the territory being a U.S. President. Allies criticise no matter who is in charge. It comes with the territory" is a big cop-out and tells me that you are willing to turn a blind eye to what happened and the repercussions that will follow. Saying that "I also think this shall pass soon. Nobody really cares about Afghanistan and it will fall from the American news fast" reflects a jaded attitude I find repugnant, one I see in our national media. I hate it that millions of Americans probably share your twisted view.

Scout wrote: "Philip, I'm happy to hear that the U.K. isn't moving on from Biden's Afghanistan fiasco. I hope that continues, and the Americans and our allies left behind are not forgotten. And, as you mention, ..."

If the link is true, that is terrible. There is no excuse for killing people just because someone thinks their actions are "suspicious". And if they were Americans or American helpers it is doubly terrible.

Ian wrote: "Scout wrote: "Philip, I'm happy to hear that the U.K. isn't moving on from Biden's Afghanistan fiasco. I hope that continues, and the Americans and our allies left behind are not forgotten. And, as..."

Unfortunately, I take the change story with a pinch of salt. Who told the NYT that, the locals or the Taliban? We frequently saw the same reporting after the attack in every conflict. Military attacks target only to find out it was a wedding, friends party, only no evidence it was - sorry bodies needed. In this case I don't know.

Not saying the US Military (And allies and enemies) can't get it wrong - in battles mistakes happen especially when your enemy deliberately hides in the population, stores arms and ammo in red cross hospitals and other actions.

My concern would be, how did the US know there were bad guys in this car? Ground intelligence would be horribly unreliable after they had pulled out like that, and someone giving false information would not be surprising. They could score forgiveness, and hence their lives, if they could show the Taliban they could use Americans to kill American sympathisers. And the Taliban would know who had been giving information to the US. If they just relied on satellite surveillance and guess what the vehicle was doing it would be very easy to make a mistake, especially if there were pressure on to do something.

Ian wrote: "My concern would be, how did the US know there were bad guys in this car? Ground intelligence would be horribly unreliable after they had pulled out like that, and someone giving false information ..."

Situation was very tense after the suicide bombings (which were by no means the first ones in Afghanistan although no others received such attention.)

I can imagine the target pickers looking at what little Intel they had. We had the ISIS area to the North, a vehicle drives out heading for the airport. It stops at a house. Drone footage shows target relatively clear. Go or No go...

That scenario, for me, is a totally inadequate basis to kill.

Scout wrote: "They're back to focusing on January 6th and talking about how far-right groups have learned tactics from the Taliban...."

The dominant narrative is being shaped around the message of 'domestic terrorism,' as the primary threat to society.

"The enemy is already here, he is your neighbour, your co-worker, and he thinks differently to you..."

The dominant narrative will respond to acts of violence by deeming them to be acts of terror, licensing the full use of the state apparatus for violence in response.

Scout wrote: "Philip, I'm happy to hear that the U.K. isn't moving on from Biden's Afghanistan fiasco. I hope that continues, and the Americans and our allies left behind are not forgotten. And, as you mention, ..."

As much as I hate saying this, mistakes do happen and he is collateral damage. I suspect there will be payments made to the families.

Philip wrote: "Ian wrote: "Scout wrote: "Philip, I'm happy to hear that the U.K. isn't moving on from Biden's Afghanistan fiasco. I hope that continues, and the Americans and our allies left behind are not forgot..."

This one I think is a true story. It has been reported widely.

Scout wrote: "And, PapaP, excusing Joe's egregious mistakes by saying that "it is part of the territory being a U.S. President. Allies criticise no matter who is in charge. It comes with the territory" is a big ..."

Nice personal attack Scout. Is that the best you can do?

Afghanistan on news again yesterday - BBC reporters still operating in Kabul and elsewhere including visiting cities under Talib control for several months - covered public executions of child kidnappers - a crime under-reported in pre-Taliban era but apparently rampant

Papaphilly wrote: "Scout wrote: "Philip, I'm happy to hear that the U.K. isn't moving on from Biden's Afghanistan fiasco. I hope that continues, and the Americans and our allies left behind are not forgotten. And, as..."

Mistakes are one thing, but the way it looks, the administration needed a "victory" to distract from the 13 dead service members, so they launched a strike on the weakest of intel. Would they have us believe that after being in the country for 20 years, they didn't know the places the car stopped at were a police station or the offices of one of our own relief agencies? Would they have us believe they knew where ISIS was operating, but confused friendly homes for known terrorist safehouses? This sounded like they just let the missile fly and crossed their fingers it would hit a bad guy. We used to be better than this when launching these kinds of strikes, but Biden chose to kill a bunch of kids because he needed to show strength after the attack on the airport.

Re the bombing of the car in Kabul discussed above, the US has admitted the ten killed were civilians, and the containers of explosives were actually containers of water, to be delivered to people with no water. Those killed were aid workers. The secondary explosion was a nearby propane tank that blew as a consequence of the strike.

Saw that and the apology - a screw up - not the first and won't be the last.

As I flippantly tried to explain - these decisions are very difficult with little on the ground information and over reliance on footage or SIGINT. Vehicle comes from hostile area. Attacks are expected (And have happened) Vehicle is full of drums that have previously been used in attacks. Now decide...

J.J Biden had nothing to do with it except in ordering evac. He would nto have been in the loop for the order. I've worked in those command chains and this would have at most gone to a duty general in CENTCOM and probably not that high. The recommendations would have come from someone like me. Too tired, scared if in Afghan and stressed if in Vegas driving a drone. If in Vagas the take out order would still have come from the duty commander in Afghan or nearby.

There is simply no time to await a Presidential order or even a Joint Chiefs one. They sign off on Rules of Engagement.

But Biden and others there on top might’ve tasked his generals to actively search for isis target for a swift retribution. He badly needed good PR after tons of bad things that happened. He’s hardly given an order, but could’ve created the ‘need’, as J.J described. Tragic this time

Nik wrote: "But Biden and others there on top might’ve tasked his generals to actively search for isis target for a swift retribution. He badly needed good PR after tons of bad things that happened. He’s hardl..."

Nick they are always actively searching for targets - in all potentially hostile countries - it doesn't need a new mandate. The attack would have made the guys on the ground more trigger happy and that requires good discipline and training to prevent more incidents. What is surprising is that there were not more incidents in Kabul. Put yourself on the ground as a young soldier, hearing Taliban celebratory shots or is that incoming fire at a gurad post just out of range.

We can sit and type what we think should or might be done (As can a President in a White House Situation Room) but we're not there having seen our comrades killed.

As is taught (I know because I used to teach it) and its in all military training, the decision to pull the trigger remains yours regardless of orders. I know of several occasion when bombs weren't dropped and missiles not fired despite orders from above. The Basra highway in first Iraq war was a notable example.

Sure, I understand that and you describe well how a tragic mistake could’ve happened

Although we are not talking about a young soldier on the ground. There will be various people examining satellite or drone images, they will come to some sort of conclusion, but it should be the commanding officer that actually makes the decision, and that commanding officer is responsible for deciding whether the information is sufficiently accurate to warrant action.

I don't buy "these things happen". Yes, they do, but unless you are confident you can stop them you should not be imposing yourself in another country. I think there is also a secondary responsibility here - had they evacuated everyone from Bagram, preferably earlier, they wouldn't have had this problem. You can't know what is going on in a city, and things can happen fast because they start close by. Control of the approaches to Bagram should have been easier and they should have evacuated civilians while they still had sufficient troops to do it. That is a senior command failing. Getting that sort of thing right is why you have Generals.

Ian wrote: "Although we are not talking about a young soldier on the ground. There will be various people examining satellite or drone images, they will come to some sort of conclusion, but it should be the co..."

That and other evacuations from other bases too. The Taliban has been taking over for last 2 years - all the focus on Kabul was crazy. It also ignores all the people who could not get to Kabul.

Defeat (and that's what this is like Vietnam) is never pretty. Planned withdrawal should be planned and the allies had more than enough time to plan it.

Retreat and withdrawal are never effectively organized, easily managed or controlled, and very seldom go as anticipated, no matter how much planning precedes them. Ask any current military personnel or veteran of any rank who has actively participated in either the planning or execution of either activity.

'Monday morning quarterbacking' is a popular pastime for many; even those who are unfamiar with the term.

Most combat veterans who served in Vietnam and Afganastan will testify to the fact that, if you do much of the actual planning, support, and active fighting for another nation's military and government, they eventually become comfortable and dependent upon such protection and support. When the time comes to leave, no matter how well planned or executed, the nation, now self-dependent for its defense and government, will fail and fall. In Vietnam it took two years. In Afganastan ir took nine days.

Jim wrote: "Retreat and withdrawal are never effectively organized, easily managed or controlled, and very seldom go as anticipated, no matte how much planning precedes them. Ask any current military personnel..."

Agreed on the messiness of retreat, but the commanding general should know the potential problems and take reasonable action to minimize them. The Taliban knew that the US was handing Afghanstan to them rather than they were fleeing, so they gave the US time and did nothing to stop them leaving for most of that time. Accordingly, the US controlled the timing, other than the deadline, of all action and could choose its place. The Taliban were prepared to permit the US to retreat in an orderly fashion, and the US wasted the opportunity on the somewhat specious grounds that it would hurt the Afghan governemnt.

Either the US knew the Afghan army had not been paid in the previous six months or it did not. If it did, it must have known the soldiers would not fight for the guys who were not paying them. If it did not, its intelligence was so bad it should have realized this was a lost cause. Either way it should have got those who had helped it and wanted out to get out in plenty of time, irrespective of where they were. The Taliban were actively helping the US to leave.

Listen, nobody anticipated that well trained and much better equipped Afghan army would fold with virtually no resistance. Apparently they didn't have enough reason to fight for