Fantasy Book Club discussion

A Game of Thrones

I'm starting out with the Fire and Ice books by Mr. Martin and I thought this a good opportunity to ask if you kept notes in the beginning to keep things straight.

If so, was it valuble? If not, did you regret it?

I know I regret doing as much for Robert Jordan's work. So perhaps my answer is apparent, but it would be good to get a reading from the group as well.

Thoughts??
Christopher

Jennifer's right. The glossary is excellent and it is updated with each volume. There are very few spoilers in it, as it is set to the beginning of each book. But it's great for keeping up with the Houses and family members, as well as what families are aligned.

You might also check the Wikipedia pages as they are very detailed for each book. But there you'll need to tread lightly for spoilers.

I never wrote notes, but I did actually end up printing out a list of the characters and what house they belonged to, because I didn't want to keep referring back to the glossary. I think in the end I didn't really need it though because I was eventually able to keep most of the characters straight.

No---but given how much time has passed I should start. I think I will need to reread the series before the next book comes out, will take notes then.

Should have taken notes for Robert Jordan's series too.

I'm waist deep in A Clash of Kingsnow but find the glossary to be a great ally. I contemplated taking notes while reading A Game of Thrones. To be honest, I'm glad I didn't. Part of the author's job is to create a clear and logical progression and Martin (along with his glossary) does just that.

I really enjoyed the first couple of books of this series, but felt the intrigue/backstabbing etc. just to be over the top with the last two. He does have so many characters that it was very hard to keep track of them in this latest volume, and I didn't have the desire to go back and re-read the first ones, so I guess in answer to the OP's question, some notes may have helped.

They seem to be increasingly vulgar as they go along too. Don't know if Martin is trying too hard to outdo himself or what.

Wow do people generally keep notes for series? I thought Christopher was joking with the topic! As an aside, I think with Robert Jordan, the wiki site for WOT is unbelievably detailed. http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/A_beginning

I support the comments of everyone else – the series isn't nearly hard enough for notes to be necessary. If the glossary doesn't help, use a plot summary.

(I should've kept notes for a wheel of time though – I regularly lose track of auxiliary characters).

I'm in a Feast for Crows after taking a very long hiatus from the series. Was wishing I had some notes when I started this one, but after about 10 chapters in, it's starting to all come back to me now. :)

If I have to take notes to read a book, I won't read it. I want to be immersed in the story to escape from my droll life and taking notes just makes reading too much like school.

I never took any notes and I found the story very easy to follow. It wasnt like Shakespeare or anything. Martin writes very well.

Jeanne wrote: "If I have to take notes to read a book, I won't read it. I want to be immersed in the story to escape from my droll life and taking notes just makes reading too much like school."

I couldn't agree more. Taking notes just takes the fun out of the whole reading process.
And I'm quite surprised that you feel a need to do so, since for me reading this book felt natural.

For me, this entirely depends on the novel/series and it's proposed breadth or obvious completion. Since G.R.R.M. hadn't even remotely come close to completing the A Song of Fire and Ice Series when I began reading it, I didn't think it at all necessary to catalogue any of it. However, if you want to talk about a couple of other authors ... !

Shoot! I hated taking notes in school and sure don't do it when reading fiction! Besides GRRM isn't exactly dense or hard to understand. On very RARE occasions, I jot things down that I want to remember -- mostly quotes of writing that is either horrible or sublime. But occasionally dates if I have a reason to want to know how much time has passed or something... but mostly the author tells me what I want to know....

I didn't have too much trouble keeping track of things early in the series. It was really once Dorn entered the picture that I began to get confused. The Red Viper went to King's Landing with an army of bannermen, and each was introduced with a description of his banner, name, family, history, etc. I'll admit, I got pretty lost.

I agree--if I can't keep the characters straight then the author has not done his or her job...harkens back to school as Sandra mentioned...I have not started this book and now wonder whether I want to!

Nikki wrote: "I agree--if I can't keep the characters straight then the author has not done his or her job...harkens back to school as Sandra mentioned...I have not started this book and now wonder whether I wan..."

Oh it's a good book. And easy reading, IMO. The only drawback is that the series is not yet finished and it's been YEARS.

that is irritating...like the tv series Carnival that just ended in the middle with no resolution...wonder what's going on with the author?

Nikki wrote: "that is irritating...like the tv series Carnival that just ended in the middle with no resolution...wonder what's going on with the author?"

He's too busy playing around in Hollywood or Bollywood or whatever. Meh. I've read two of the series and am not reading the rest until he gets the 5th book out.

I just started A Game of Thrones, about 250 pgs in and so far I have not found it difficult to keep up with the characters, but we'll see. As for taking notes, I read for pleasure and don't want to do any extra work. If it required note taking to follow, I would probably not be interested.

I read the Fire and Ice series a couple of years ago and was enthralled by the characters, places, and story that G R R Martin creates. I found the books almost impossible to put down. Now I am only frustrated every time I glance over at my book shelves and see the 4 books sitting there waiting for the 5th to join them. I just wish he would get over traveling around to every ComiCon between here and Alaska and just sit down and finish the story.
Oh and to the original point of the thread, I never felt that notes were necessary for F&I. The characters are relatively easy to follow and the glossary is extremely helpful when needed.

It never occured to me to take notes because I didn't know the series would not be completed in my lifetime when I started. Seven books 5-10 years apart...on the positive side, George Lucus did live to finish Star Wars so anything is possible. On another plus note, HBO is doing a series next spring based on the series. I figure if GRRM doesn't finish the thing maybe HBO will put me out of my misery. If the house of Stark is avenged with the Queen's blood, I'm good.

I am considering giving the book I just bought away for Christmas..maybe someone can contact the man and find out when?! (or is he unreachable?)

The only advice I can give you is "don't read The Name of the Wind"...yet. It's a great book but it's a trilogy and book two has had more publication dates than I have ever seen. It's cruel but you can't rush the creative process or so these writers tend to say. Whoa is me.

OMG... had to pass along some info I received from Amazon.
I got an email yesterday giving me the "new" ship date for A Dance With Dragons as:
12/25/2012 !!!!!

Donna wrote: "OMG... had to pass along some info I received from Amazon.
I got an email yesterday giving me the "new" ship date for A Dance With Dragons as:
12/25/2012 !!!!!"

Ha! We'll see. But I'm not holding my breath.

As GRRM has said often on his blog, you can't trust Amazon release dates. When you have particular authors that promise books for years on end, there really is no official release date and Amazon has to make one up. The publisher will give Amazon the correct date once they have it set, and they cannot even begin to project one until the book is submitted. The book won't be submitted until GRRM writes it, which has taken 10 years so far. (That is including the novel of A Feast for Crows in 2005 which was supposed to be the first half of Dance).

It gives a new level of meaning to 'TRIFE'. I am praying GRRM let's HBO wrap this story in the new series since he can't seem to do it via a book. I don't think writing a book is 'easy' but some writers want us to believe it's 'impossible'. 2012...really? Just 'TRIFE'.

Ha! For Dance to be out in 2 years would require GRRM to actually finish it. To finish it he would actually have to spend time working on it. Hilarious! Since writing each book has taken him an order of magnitude longer than the previous book. If he does finish Dance in the next decade, we should be able to have the finished product sometime around 2050 assuming GRRM lives to the age of 102.

Sarcastic thought...Tolkein and CS Lewis are still putting out books from the grave like rap artist...so let's not be dismayed that GRRM can't continue to write the remaining books at 102 years of age or from the other side of the veil.

My OMG was meant sarcastically- another TWO Years as the projected release date is ridiculous!!! I love this series, but may not live long enough to read it to it's conclusion! (I initially preordered this in 2008!)
I was hoping the HBO series would be a hit and that would light a fire under GRRM, but who know?....

I heard a interview with him that he did a week ago, he said that the problem is where the order of certain characters get to a certain place that he is changing and cannot figure out. While you all are waiting, you should read his Wild Cards series, one of the best superhero fiction out there. They are not know because they are in pros form, not in comics or graphic novel like the rest of the superhero. I have them all, but the two original ones done by ibooks, read them all. They are hard to find, so I would just start off with inside straight, a great starting point for the newbies.

On that, Kevin, Tor Books just re-released the first Wild Cards 1 in paperback. I believe they're due to release the second and third eventually too.

This one has three new stories added too.

Kevin that is the entire point of my post. The man writes a lot. He does countless anthologies and side projects, but doesn't spend much time on his main attraction. I understand that an author needs side projects to avoid burning out, but dance with dragons was supposed to be part of the last book. That means that a portion of the work done for this book started about 10 years ago.

I have heard very good things about the wild card books, even though they aren't my normal cup of tea. I refuse to read them because in doing so we support the fact that Martin has basically thumbed his nose at his main fan base. The very fact that he can't make the plot work shows that he let his world get out of control. Normally that's not something you want to see from one of the "giants" of a genre.

I like you Ryan. You put the ax to the root with that comment. Maybe GRRM needs a muse because side projects are not inspiring him to get 'her done.

I just started this book a few days ago and I began by highlighting names and historical information, but now I am 30% in and I haven't had to refer back, once the author goes over the basics and uses them, the background makes sense. I am blown away by this book, I can't believe I have never heard of it. I went an ordered my husband a copy, his first language is spanish so I had to import it in from Spain. I plan to take reading of this slowly so that the weight for the next book isn't too painful, I already have too many series like that. Does the final book out right now end with a cliffhanger?

How are the pre-quel novellas? I read on Wikipedia that there are several prequels .......

Regina wrote: "I just started this book a few days ago and I began by highlighting names and historical information, but now I am 30% in and I haven't had to refer back, once the author goes over the basics and u..."

There are prequels. They are out of print in graphic novel form calledThe Hedge Knight and The Hedge Knight II: Sworn Sword. Both were first published in Legends and Legends II. Legends II is out of print, and Legends is in print from Tor Books. Legends to me was the best collections of short stories. What it was was a collection of stories from a bunch of well known Fantasy authors, writing in their known universe, all prequels in one volume.

Thank you Kevin, I am going to try and track them down.

This series list for the Legends books may help. Then again, it might confuse as it's pretty convoluted.

These books have been split and reissued in many different forms, hence the cluttering.

Thanks! I assume that even if they are split, there are just the 2 Martin novellas? I just found Legends II in Kindle format. Hopefully by the time I get around to reading #1 it is available in kindle format too, but my library has both anthologies. So I will have access.

Good deal. The first novella ("The Hedge Knight") is also available in his Dreamsongs: A RRetrospective: Book Two collection, btw.

There is actually a third novella, that was just put out last year. "The Mystery Knight" is in Warriors, which I am currently reading. His story is the last in the book, so I haven't read it yet.

It looks like they're going to do a split on Warriors too, when it hits paperback in the next few months. So the key to that is keeping up with which one has the Martin story.

Of course, with both Legends books and Warriors, there are also lots of other great stories too.

Regina wrote: "Thanks! I assume that even if they are split, there are just the 2 Martin novellas? I just found Legends II in Kindle format. Hopefully by the time I get around to reading #1 it is available in ..."


No problem, did not know they were on Kindle, maybe from reading Legends I and II, you will find new authors to enjoy.

Oh -- thanks. I will look for those too. The authors contributing to Legend are ones I like, so you are right, I will likely enjoy that.

Kevin wrote: "Regina wrote: "Thanks! I assume that even if they are split, there are just the 2 Martin novellas? I just found Legends II in Kindle format. Hopefully by the time I get around to reading #1 it i..."

I hope! That is the great thing about a good anthology. I already enjoy Ursula LeGuin.

Ryan wrote: "Kevin that is the entire point of my post. The man writes a lot. He does countless anthologies and side projects, but doesn't spend much time on his main attraction. I understand that an author nee..."

True to that!

Kevin wrote: "maybe from reading Legends I and II, you will find new authors to enjoy..."

I did, Kevin. I bought Legends for the Stephen King story, so that was my first experience with Martin. Along with Jordan and Goodkind, for that matter.

Chris wrote: "Good deal. The first novella ("The Hedge Knight") is also available in his Dreamsongs: A RRetrospective: Book Two collection, btw.

There is actually a third novella, that was just pu..."

Dreamsong is available on Kindle.

I have been reading this series for the last couple of months. I am currently on the third book and was trying to remember exactly what happened to Daenerys in the House of Undying. I was looking around on the internet and found . This website has a brief synopsis of each chapter in each of the books in the series. Even though I have been reading straight through the series, I still enjoyed skimming over these. Just thought I wold share.

Been there, done that. After finishing the last available SoIaF volume, I started looking for other GRRM books: Fevre Dream, Dreamsongs I and II, some of his anthologies, Windhaven, the hedge knight novellas... with varying success. Even though I think he is a very good writer, let's be honest, what I like is his saga, the winter coming, that perfidious Cersei, Jon Snow, Daenerys Targaryen, her dragons, Arya's fate whatever it is...
I have not kept notes of books so far, but I can tell you this: the moment Dance with Dragons is in my hands, I am going to sit down and read the #%&$ thing again from page 1.

Thanks for the info, Stephen. I can use that when Dance with Dragons comes out.