The Sword and Laser discussion

Veronica REALLY wanted to make the title of this episode "Tom Merritt is a sexist pig." But Tom doesn't need that kind of grief. And besides he has promised to read even more female SciFi/Fantasy authors going forward. But if you want to hear Veronica giggle at the notion-- as well as defend our book pick, Annihilation by Jeff VanderMeer, and wax eloquent about the need for varied perspectives in literature-- then fire up this episode!

https://www.patreon.com/creation?hid=...

If you want the next pick to be a fantasy/modern mix why not Myke Cole's Control point. He was just on the show and i believe he said that people often put his work in the scifi category when it is actually fantasy.

Ooooh, good idea, Brendan! I want to read one of his books, if only because he always seems so lovely. :D

Thanks for mentioning Queers destroy...

If Tom wants to get balance for the next pick (I don't feel its needed in any way) Science Fantasy could be a way to go, or a fun light space opera like Take Back Plenty. Both Lagoon and Yellow Blue Tibia have plenty of humor in them - though one of the things I like best about the podcast is Tom and Veronica's ability to choose consistently surprising and interesting selections themselves, despite not reading as prolifically in the genre as some of their listeners.

Control Point would be awesome... that whole series is just crazy action fun. I'm totally starting a thread about what pick everyone tried that they unexpectedly loved.

It's Hammerin time!...loved this episode you guys are on a roll lately for good shows and interviews. Whole new level of goodness. Much appreciated.

If Tom really wants to cover his bases, we could do The Cage of Zeus by Sayuri Ueda -- murder mystery set on a space station full of genetically engineered hermaphrodites, written by a Japanese woman.

For modern fantasy, if we can wait a few months, the first volume of Durarara is finally going to be released in English this July. You got street gangs and mobsters, a pharmaceutical company that kidnaps homeless people for medical experiments, and a headless horseman who rides a motorcycle.

Have you guys noticed that the audio quality has improved?

Now that you mention it Yes!

I have noticed something about the audio. To me it is not positive. Because if there is things that annoy me and send me into a furious unfocused state, it is lip smacking and breathing sounds. Way too much of those on this episode, didn't hear a thing you guys said because of it.

However, that is my issue and i'm working on it. Still love you guys and the show.

Daniel wrote: "I have noticed something about the audio. To me it is not positive. Because if there is things that annoy me and send me into a furious unfocused state, it is lip smacking and breathing sounds. Way..."

Welp... gotta breathe!

Tom, what about something very steampunk and fun? Myke Cole's Control Point is good too, but not very lighthearted I think.

The Strange Affair of Spring Heeled Jack by Mark Hodder

or Agatha H and the Airship City by Phil Foglio

or Retribution Falls by Chris Wooding

I still think , if you want a uplifting book,The Goblin Emperor. Check out the reviews.

Stephen wrote: "I still think , if you want a uplifting book,The Goblin Emperor. Check out the reviews."

I really want an excise to read this one soon! So I second this.

Welp... gotta breathe!

Really, though? I think that's awfully aerobicist of you.

(Wow, joke regret was immediate with that one. Oh, well.)

I'll never read To Kill A Mockimgbird now. Not into a series.

What about something like Off to Be the Wizard? It's kind of fantasy, but magic is based on manipulating a file with a computer. So it also sci-fi.

It's a very fun book IMHO.

Rob wrote: "What about something like Off to Be the Wizard? It's kind of fantasy, but magic is based on manipulating a file with a computer. So it also sci-fi.

It's a very fun book IMHO."

Seconded! Also, book 3 comes out Feb 10. Also, book 2 features some gender role reversal. Also, you should have Scott Meyer on the show.

Tamahome wrote: "I'll never read To Kill A Mockingbird now. Not into a series."

Plus that 50 year wait for Book 3 is going to be hard ;-)

OK, I wasn't going to read the rest of the Southern Reach trilogy, but I think I want to now based on Tom's description.

I had a similar experience to what Tom describes with Midnight in Austenland. I really, really liked the first book, Austenland, and I needed to read the first in order to enjoy the second, but I think I enjoyed the second even more because it twists away from the expectations of the first book (which, in turn, plays on the expectations of a Regency-era romance novel).

RE: My comment about getting to Annihilation within the month of February

If I were to start it today, I would want to read the next two in the trilogy right away. No way could I just read the first book. And if you look at my currently reading shelf you would see that I am already swamped with several comic book trades, a pretty large omnibus, and not to mention a book that I've had for two weeks without starting.

The Southern Reach trilogy is going to have to wait until I get through all of that. Hopefully, soon™.

Ah! Evelyn Waugh is one Tom's top 5 read! too too joy-making

Fantasy-leaning science fiction that feels uplifting?

What about Lord Valentine's Castle by Robert Silverberg?

It's a classic of the field and Silverberg himself is legendary and we've never done him. It's the first of a series but it can be read entirely standalone.

My recommendations for SF/F mix that's not a bummer are The Eyre Affair by Jasper Fforde, The Free Lunch or Callahan's Crosstime Saloon by Spider Robinson, and Split Infinity by Piers Anthony. Well the word "mix" might not be accurate for the first two but they're SF with a lighter touch.

Mary Robinette Kowal @MaryRobinette · Dec 17
It's not about adding diversity for the sake of diversity, it's about subtracting homogeneity for the sake of realism.

Lindsay wrote: "Fantasy-leaning science fiction that feels uplifting?

What about Lord Valentine's Castle by Robert Silverberg?

It's a classic of the field and Silverberg himself is le..."

One of my favorite books and I need an excuse to do a re-read.

The "Most frequently read author" goodreads thing you mentioned... how does that work? Can someone point me to it or the thread you mentioned? Thanks.

Another good show, btw.

David wrote: "The "Most frequently read author" goodreads thing you mentioned... how does that work? Can someone point me to it or the thread you mentioned? Thanks.

Another good show, btw."

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

James's comments in post 5 explains how to find the list.

This comment was posted in the wrong thread and edited to this message rather than deleting to avoid screwing with people's notification emails.

Nothing exciting here. Carry on..

Rob wrote: "This comment was posted in the wrong thread and edited to this message rather than deleting to avoid screwing with people's notification emails.

Nothing exciting here. Carry on.."

IT'S A CONSPIRACY!!! WHAT ARE YOU HIDING, ROB?

Alot of good suggestions for next month's book pick in this thread. Personally I'm going to suggest A Princess of Mars by E R Burroughs. It has been on my wishlist for quite some time and it seems to be a very light science fantasy. Also, it's a cult classic.

A Princess of Mars is awesome. Dated as all get out but still well worth the read. If nothing else, see where Lucas got half of his ideas.

Tad Williams's Otherland series is supposed to be an sf & f mix.

What about weird west? That'd be different but still scifi ish with an alt timeline. Nunslinger is my suggestion. I've needed to read it since tor wrote about it

Otherland is fantastic and yes is cyberpunk with some fantasy in it.

The series spans 4 books, though, and from what I can tell, you need to read all 4.

Tamahome wrote: "Tad Williams's Otherland series is supposed to be an sf & f mix."

This was a great series!! And, yes you need to read all 4.

Rather than a series of four books it's more like one book spanning four volumes. If you like the first one then you pretty much have to read the rest.

Tamahome wrote: "Mary Robinette Kowal @MaryRobinette · Dec 17
It's not about adding diversity for the sake of diversity, it's about subtracting homogeneity for the sake of realism."

Leave it to a author to succinctly explain it.

Also, I appreciate that you guys spent some time talking about LGBTQ missing plots. That really means a lot to have the discussion about it. Personally, I view Ann Leckie's Ancillary Series (is that what they call it) to be away from the heteronormative books. Though genders do exist and it's only the central characters point of view referring everyone with feminine pronouns, in that universe I don't think it would be so wrong or looked differently if two people were homosexual.

Jason wrote: "Also, I appreciate that you guys spent some time talking about LGBTQ missing plots. That really means a lot to have the discussion about it. Personally, I view Ann Leckie's Ancillary Series (is tha..."

I do think that, among other things, Leckie was deliberately trying to describe a culture in which gender is strictly irrelevant. Irrelevant to what jobs a person might get, irrelevant to what kind of person a person might be attracted to. So very irrelevant, that they have only one pronoun for any kind of person, for which the author decided to use the English pronoun "she". There is no "homosexual". Each person is simply attracted to certain others according to their arbitrary tastes. Unless they're asexual. I'd be curious to see another scifi book that uses singular "they" for everyone. If you can and usually do grow babies in machines made to order by families of all variaties, then you could imagine a place where a person's physical sex was less relevant to who they are as a person than, say, what language they grew up speaking or whether they come from an urban or rural area.

John (Taloni) wrote: "A Princess of Mars is awesome. Dated as all get out but still well worth the read."

Seconded. Got it super cheap on audible a while ago and loved it.

John (Taloni) wrote: "A Princess of Mars is awesome. Dated as all get out but still well worth the read. If nothing else, see where Lucas got half of his ideas."

It's also available from numerous sources for free.

^Yep, I got the whole Barsoom series from gutenberg.org. Love those peeps.

This guy makes nice free Barsoom audiobooks.
http://marsbooks.libsyn.com/

If next laser pick will be something involving fantasy it would be a great chance for me to skip it and at last read Leviathan Wakes. But if Tom selects Burroughs' Barsoom series maybe i won't be able to resist. Besides some unnecessary gory stuff in the series it was very fun to read.

Daniel wrote: "If next laser pick will be something involving fantasy it would be a great chance for me to skip it and at last read Leviathan Wakes. But if Tom selects Burroughs' Barsoom series maybe i won't be a..."

So far for Veronica's speech about the point of being in a book is to expand your horizons and not dismiss books out of hand because they're at first glance not what you usually like. :p

Kevin wrote: "Daniel wrote: "If next laser pick will be something involving fantasy it would be a great chance for me to skip it and at last read Leviathan Wakes. But if Tom selects Burroughs' Barsoom series may..."

Yeah, maybe, but first two picks of the year weren't my stuff so i'd like to read something predictably interesting for a change.

Kevin wrote: "So far for Veronica's speech about the point of being in a book is to expand your horizons"

:)

The Southern Reach trilogy was, well, a reach for me. But I did learn something.

Daniel wrote: "unnecessary gory stuff"

Oh I dunno, it seemed pretty necessary to readers at the time. :)

There's some interesting historical lessons in A Princess of Mars. First the initial impression that John Carter might just be hallucinating, since the Tharks are so clearly derived from American Indians. To me this evokes Olaf Stapledon's Star Maker where the traveller first wound up hosted by an almost-human species before continuing on to weirder things. Second the casual acceptance of slavery. In later books some slave masters are even presented as good. Third the obvious racism - more a sign of the times than of any specific racism of Burroughs. And yes, the gore of the "sword and planet" genre. But dang, Burroughs did it so well.

Lord Valentine's castle would certainly fit well into a science fantasy month. Princess of Mars is fun but really super-dated and I think the sexism is just as bad as the racism in it.

Some other science fantasy possibilities might be Lord of Light, The Incompleat Enchanter or The Martian Chronicles.

John (Taloni) wrote: "^Yep, I got the whole Barsoom series from gutenberg.org. Love those peeps."

I don't think Gutenberg has them all (11 books + a collection of short stories). The Burroughs estate bought back some of the copyrights and has made some of his books really hard to find.