The Sword and Laser discussion

The #204 podcast got me thinking about books with interesting portrayals of humans, aliens and their relationship dynamics.

A few popped to mind but there is probably more I've not explored in this space recommendations gratefully taken

Off the top of my head - Iain M Banks Culture series definitely has a gender fluid element, Octavia Butler's portrayal of the 3 gender oankali Dawn, the method of reproduction of The Clockwork Rocket, Greg Egan, Ursula K. Le Guin, Ancillary Justice

China Mieville's Bas-Lag trilogy books explore these issues really well I think.

Check out Storm Constantine's post apocalyptic fantasy series, Wraeththu. The first book is The Enchantments of Flesh and Spirit. The series deals with a new species, the Wraeththu, a race of hermaphrodites that is quickly replacing homo sapiens on a future, post apocalyptic Earth.

Clive Barker's Imajica features a character, Pie'Oh'Pah, whose gender changes based on the desires of the person s/he's with.

More fantasy but The Mirror Empire is fantastic for different gender and relationship dynamics

Adam - I'm a big fan of Mieville.

Eleanor - I loved Mirror Empire just forgot it when writing up.

Dharmakirti - thanks I've not read either of those I'll add them to my list.

I think they talked about it on the podcast but I really liked 2312. Not sure why the Goodreads score is so low but I wouldn't let that dissuade you.

@Eleanor: I've been seeing Mirror Empire mentioned in a few places and am thinking of picking it up. Would you recommend it to someone who is kind of iffy on traditional fantasy, but likes Joe Abercrombie and new weird stuff?

The "Neutopia" episode of Futurama. Or any James Tiptree, Jr. award nominee.

Brendan - I would recommend anyone giving it a go and it's a book that's kind of hard to describe or pin down. It's not your traditional fantasy novel. It does throw you right into the world straight off and so some people find it quite confusing to begin with, but it does come together. It's a very interesting book.

One of the best books that I found explored alien culture/relationships/dynamics is from a somewhat obscure writer, M.A. Foster, called "The Gameplayers of Zan" which is the first book of a trilogy. I believe it's out of print but worth hunting down.

http://www.amazon.com/Gameplayers-Zan...

Eleanor wrote: "Brendan - I would recommend anyone giving it a go and it's a book that's kind of hard to describe or pin down. It's not your traditional fantasy novel. It does throw you right into the world straig..."

I found that I had real trouble figuring out where I was, who anybody was, what anybody's abilities were, why the sky was different colors, etc. I ended up dropping it because I was totally at sea.

Take this suggestion with a large grain of salt, considering the author/premise/when it was published...
I Will Fear No Evil by Robert A. Heinlein, in which a 90 year old man transplants his brain into the body of a beautiful young woman. You can just imagine the issues that arise from such an act. And remember, this was published in 1970, so "free love" is a definite theme.

^ Also To Sail Beyond The Sunset, although I found it a bit heavy handed. Still, if you have some time and want to read some later Heinlein, it's worth a look.

Elizabeth Bear has some interesting stuff in this area.

Her Jenny Casey books have a developing poly relationship at their core.

She also has a series called Iskyrne World which she coauthors with Sarah Monette that has a northern European-type culture that features men who mentally bond with wolves in much the same way as Pern dragon riders do. The result is a sub-culture of warriors who are primarily homosexual (in some cases whether they like it or not).

Glasshouse by Charles Stross. There are some gender-bending, and what could mostly be described as species-bending motifs in his works, but Glasshouse is where they probably are most obvious. Also really dug his, most likely not original, take on conciousness and identity, another theme prevalent in his works.

His take on some of those themes was one of the things that probably made me more comfortable with the ideas and conceits in Ann Leckie's Imperial Radch and Octavia E. Butler's Xenogenesis.

I found it curious that as soon as i listened to the Annihilaton kick-off episode that described i found that Charles Stross is one writer that, for me was the answer to two topics on the show, gender dynamics and most read authors.

I forgot to mention The Female Man. That was an interesting book!

Tomw wrote: "One of the best books that I found explored alien culture/relationships/dynamics is from a somewhat obscure writer, M.A. Foster, called "The Gameplayers of Zan" which is the first book of a trilogy..."

Another plug for "Gameplayers of Zan" simply because it touches on all the issues mentioned here and then some. I would rank it as one of the best SF books I've ever read, and if you read the Amazon reviews you'll get a sense why...

http://www.amazon.com/Gameplayers-Zan...

After reading Joanna's and Eleanor's comments I decided to buy Mirror Empire and I'll give it a try after I finish what I'm reading (also it was only $5). Joanna's comments actually made me more interested, I sort of enjoy a book that throws you into the middle of an ocean and says "Now swim!"

Heinlein mentions above got me thinking about his The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. The Luna communities have a pretty interesting extended family/kinship system that might fit your bill.

Heinlein had some really weird fetishes.

Brendan wrote: "Heinlein had some really weird fetishes."

Yeah, especially redheads and cats.

Brendan wrote: "Heinlein had some really weird fetishes."

I'm not sure exactly what you refer to vis-a-vis Heinlein, but the types of group marriage he had in "Moon is a Harsh Mistress" are hardly novel (pun intended).

Anyone who has studied cultural anthropology knows that human cultures have employed an astonishing array of marital practices. Our western cultural bias is a relatively new phenomenon on the stage of human history.

In terms of interesting explorations of gender The James Tiptree awards are a good source of interesting genre works. Their website even has some interesting public discussions of some works that they have highlighted/shortlisted.

Tomw wrote: "Brendan wrote: "Heinlein had some really weird fetishes."

I'm not sure exactly what you refer to vis-a-vis Heinlein, but the types of group marriage he had in "Moon is a Harsh Mistress" are hardly..."

Yeah for sure. But those who aren't familiar with the intricacies of filial piety within polyamorous clan-based social structures may find it interesting so I threw it out there just in case.

I didn't know about the redheads and cats part either though...

Adam wrote: "I didn't know about the redheads and cats part either though..."

They are common fixtures in Heinlein's books, especially the later titles.
See- To Sail Beyond the Sunset, and The Cat Who Walks Through Walls.

Adam wrote: "I didn't know about the redheads and cats part either though... "

I have to admit that I have always had an inexplicable weakness for redheads myself. It's never gotten me into trouble (my wife is blond) but my sirens would had cascading red locks.

Delaney's Babel-17 has triad relationships. They aren't the focus of the story but there's a 'triple' in the main cast of characters & Delaney's description of their relationship is quite touching.

I have to mention Ascension by Jacqueline Koyanagi. It's a space opera with a spaceship full of genderfluid and sexuality queer people having really interesting relationships with each other. It was well paced, it had tons of action, sweet character interaction, relationships, spaceships, good worldcraft and high drama. It is a space opera in the true sense of the world.

I second Ascension. Wish she'd hurry up with the next one :)

Many of the books by Jack L. Chalker have people changing bodies, including genders. Also lots of aliens who don't have strict male/female dimorphism. Some hermaphrodites, some asexual plant people, and so on.

John Varley examines this quite a bit in his Eight Worlds stories, where humanity has cloning and mind-swapping technology, so anyone can change genders.

Sovereign by R.M. Meluch features gay characters, which was quite an eye-opener in 1979.