Do Better: SFF without Sexual Violence discussion

Hey everyone! It's already that time again!

Where did your reading journey take you in April? Did you read a lot, or were you stuck in a slump like me? Let us know what you liked, didn't like and what (if any) you think might be suitable for the DB bookshelf-database

Pop by anytime this month and share. Elena and I will research/validate all member's suggestions for the DB bookshelf-database by the end of the month.

Note: For any books you are recommending, let us know of any common content warnings that you noticed. Here is our current list on our bookshelf-database: (view spoiler)[

Animal abuse
Animal Death
Body Image - (fat shaming, eating disorders)
Bullying
Child Abuse
Child Death
Child Neglect
Graphic Violence
Homophobia (that is acknowledged)
Low female rep
Memory Manipulation
Oppression
Racism (that is acknowledged)
Self harm
Sexism (that is acknowledged)
Slavery
Transphobia (that is acknowledged)
Enbyphobia (that is acknowledged)
(hide spoiler)]

My Friday is slow so I'll share my list now...might remember others later...

Queens of the Wyrd - story about a mom (half human half giant) and her daughter going on an adventure to save the world with the mom's old kick butt warrior crew of women.

The Priory of the Orange Tree - this is a really long book...I think its ok but I may be wrong.

Gods, Monsters, and the Lucky Peach - novella about a future earth society that can travel back in time to collect ecological data that will help them reestablish earth's ecosystems. The story follows a crew on a mission...and craziness ensues! TW: self-harm

Just two for April

Interior Chinatown - speculative fiction, CW racism - novel directly looks at Asian stereotyping through a farcical TV series

Mooncakes cute-ish inclusive graphic novel about witches and werewolves.

Thank you both!

@ Rebecca - What a variety! I've read Gods, Monsters, and the Lucky Peach. I seemed to have enjoyed it more than many others, but at the same time, agree with their criticisms.

@Mary - Woah, 5 stars for Interior Chinatown! From what I've seen on my feed, this isnt something you award often ;) I'm glad it lived up to the hype for you 😁 And that graphic novel looks adorable.

I'm just curious, what is speculative about Interior Chinatown? It's not tagged SF on people's shelves....

Cheryl wrote: "I'm just curious, what is speculative about Interior Chinatown? It's not tagged SF on people's shelves...."

I don't know how it's being classified generally but I think of it as a speculative (and separate from SF), it's an experimental novel that tells the story through typecast Asian American cinematic characters.

Mary wrote: "I don't know how it's being classified generally but I think of it as a s..."

When I add books like that to our various groups, I classify them as "Lit with a hint of SFF". I want to feature the "fiction" that is different and difficult to classify, but keep it seperate from those looking for what is more typical of SciFi & Fantasy.

I read a lot of books, and by read, I mean listen while I work. I can get through an audiobook in a couple of days, so I average about 2 books a week.

Some of my April reads were disappointing, and what led me to search out this group. :)

Remote Control Not as good as Binti; I think I liked this more because of Adjoa Andoh's narration. Not necessarily SF, and no SV. There is other violence and mass death.

Grimspace Interesting world-building with a different take on navigating space itself. Female MC disappoints as she gives up her values for cute/hot damaged asshole while questioning her sanity. Hinted SV, not so implied harassment, and gunfight violence. Ugh.

Trading in Danger Marque and Reprisal Engaging the Enemy The first two of Vatta's War series are good reads and well-paced. The third was a snore-fest. I am partial to military SF, which generally lacks strong female MCs. So great to see them here, full of tactics, logistics, and on-the-spot "we are going to die in space" problem solving demonstrating character growth. No SV, some flirting that is shut down, some nostalgic longing for a past love. There are mass deaths and fighting violence. The third book did reveal a revenged filled villain as a past family member with a dubious SV history.

Pathfinder's Way Hard no. Except for the intriguing world-building, which takes a huge back seat, there is so much wrong with this book! I don't even know where to begin. Slavery, SV, oppression, racism, sexism, misogyny etc., etc.

Deal with the Devil I enjoyed this fun post-apocalyptic action-adventure romp. Although the sexual tension dialed way high and was sometimes annoying, it was all consensual and transparent to the reader. There are references to past torture, violence, and other evil corporate activities - servitude, human experimentation.

Aurora Rising I enjoyed this book and I didn't expect it, so that was fun. I had a few issues with the melodrama of teen angst initially. Still, once the pacing picked up, it faded into the background. As an audiobook, it was recorded very differently than I would have expected. As the story is told, the perspective moves from character to character by chapters. Each character is voiced by a different actor. However, during a character chapter, the other voices are read by that chapter's actor. For example, Tyler is narrating his version of events. Tyler's actor also does the different character voices in that chapter, not the other character actors. It really lends to "Tyler's perspective" as if this is how he hears and sees the action. It was a fascinating way to hear a story and I hope my explanation that makes sense!

Beige wrote: "Mary wrote: "I don't know how it's being classified generally but I think of it as a s..."

When I add books like that to our various groups, I classify them as "Lit with a hint of SFF". I want to ..."

Yeah I find Speculative a bit of a BS term used for "Literary" fiction that doesn't want to be seen as genre fiction and is often lazy imo on the SFF elements. I think Yu is an exception and his SFF is excellent.

Louise wrote: "I read a lot of books, and by read, I mean listen while I work. I can get through an audiobook in a couple of days, so I average about 2 books a week.

Some of my April reads were disappointing, a..."

I liked Remote Control too.

That's a bit of a bummer about Grimspace I have it on my bookshelf, on the otherhand it was a gift so I could ditch it with no bad feelings and reduce my physical TBR.

I liked the Vatta's War series, I also did the audio and OMG the voice for one of the villains was so bad it was comical I literally laughed out loud and thought I cannot take this person as a serious threat. On the other hand I enjoyed Grace being revealed as more of a badass as the series goes on, don't get that much for older female characters.

Hi! I usually don't comment on these because my reading habits are... Weird. I rarely read adult SFF and when I do either it has SV or it was already on the shelves.

Example: I read Gideon the Ninth, which is already on the shelves, but I also read The Left Hand of Darkness (dubious consent) and The Bloody Chamber and Other Stories, which features I think every single kind of SV there is.

However I did finish reading Of Wars, and Memories, and Starlight, and found no SV (however I started it in January so I'd like that to be double-checked). CW: (view spoiler)[Child Death, Memory Manipulation, Oppression, Racism (acknowledged) (hide spoiler)].

I also read a small novelette in Spanish called Reina de hielo y sombras which is adult. I think in English it'd be considered crossover Adult-YA? I'm not sure if that's part of the included range and I'm not sure if we're including works without an English translation, but I thought I'd mention it if there were any Spanish-reading members, it has absolutely 0 SV. It does have other CW: (view spoiler)[Graphic Violence and Acknowledged Homophobia (light) (hide spoiler)]. For the shelves, I think it'd be ideal for: (view spoiler)[author-is-lgbtqia-plus, e-friendship, e-hopepunk-ish, mc-is-bipoc, mc-is-lgbtqia-plus, z-fantasy-general and z-short-novella (hide spoiler)].

I'm sorry. I'm still confused. I want to know whether to add this to my to-read list.

Does "Interior Chinatown" fit this group's shelves as an SFF book or not? And if so, how?

Cheryl wrote: "I'm sorry. I'm still confused. I want to know whether to add this to my to-read list. Does "Interior Chinatown" fit this group's shelves as an SFF book or not? And if so, how?"

Short answer: Yes, we'll consider it for the group. 😁

Long answer:
I took from Mary's comment that she felt it was 'experimental fiction' and therefore was sufficient for the group. And I agree, there are plenty of books marketed as fiction that SFF fans might also enjoy. We keep a broad mind to genre in our 3 groups, but do our best to tag them accordingly. The books that some, people might say "are not SciFi" we tag with "lit with a hint of SFF" or "genre bending".

Thank you!

Mary wrote: "Louise wrote: "I read a lot of books, and by read, I mean listen while I work. I can get through an audiobook in a couple of days, so I average about 2 books a week.

Some of my April reads were d..."

Yea, I was quite disappointed with Grimspace, I like the world so much, but also decided I'm not wasting the time on books like this. There are just too many others to read that are worth my time. :)

On Vatta's war, I loved seeing Stella and Grace blossom, and Kylara grow into a whip smart confident woman. I agree on the voicing acting, there were definitely some lol moments. I did think the books would have benefitted from a better narrator.

Louise wrote: "Yea, I was quite disappointed with Grimspace, I like the world so much, but also decided I'm not wasting the time on books like this..."

Sounds like you have quite the reading groove going! Thanks for sharing! We'll check out the DB suggested ones at the end of the month.

I also read Grimspace ages ago and my memory of it is disappointment. How promising the start was and then how it fell into the romance tropes you mentioned. But I just looked and my rating is 4 stars. Not sure what I was thinking back then 😂

Kam wrote: "Hi! I usually don't comment on these because my reading habits are... Weird. I rarely read adult SFF and when I do either it has SV or it was already on the shelves...."

Thanks, Kam! We appreciate you sharing whether it's every month or once in a blue moon 😉

We're open to books with no-english translations. I use Chrome and it 'appears' to do a good job at translating my friends non-english reviews.

Only caveat is we need the agreed upon minimum of 75+ GR reviews to conduct our mod research/validation. Books with low numbers of reviews are still worth mentioning though! We add them to our pending list. If another active member decides to read a pending book and seconds it, we'll add it 😁

Beige wrote: "Kam wrote: "Hi! I usually don't comment on these because my reading habits are... Weird. I rarely read adult SFF and when I do either it has SV or it was already on the shelves...."

Thanks, Kam! W..."

I forgot about the reviews! Sorry about that u.u That means both are pending for now, I guess? I'll have to find something different for May, then!

I'll try to be more active, you are all super nice ^^

Kam wrote: "Beige wrote: "Kam wrote: "Hi! I usually don't comment on these because my reading habits are... Weird. I rarely read adult SFF and when I do either it has SV or it was already on the shelves..."

No need to apologize! We love our pending list, lesser known/reviewed authors deserve our attention too 😁 Suggest as many as you like.

Edit: We're actually reading one of them next month at wotf, The Stone Wētā

HI HERE I AM to suggest Firebreak. It was just really good, let me yell about it everywhere. Haha! This one was actually so free of SV that I assume her other books are as well. :)

Anyway cw: child abuse, child death, child neglect, oppression, slavery, loss of loved ones, poverty

Lady Amanda wrote: "HI HERE I AM to suggest FIREBREAK by Nicole Kornher Stace (sorry I'm on mobile, I can't tag it, I'll come back and do it later). It was just really good, let me yell about it everywhere. Haha! This..."


I was already excited for this, but it's also suitable for DB?!!! Huge bonus!

Thanks, Amanda!

Beige, please read it! Nicole is a little sad that big review sites are planning on basically ignoring it. But it's REALLY GOOD!!! Stick it to the big review sites! :)

Thank you for taking the time to share your monthly reads with us!! It's truly what keeps our group going 😁

We have completed the research for your April reads and here are the results of what has been added to our bookshelf database, our pending list or our excluded list based on our agreed upon group guidelines.


Rebecca:
Queens of the Wyrd - 🔄 Added to pending, insufficient reviews

The Priory of the Orange Tree - ✔️ Lots of GR reviewers stated how refreshing this was for its lack of SV. Added with CW for (view spoiler)[Mental Health, Suicide, animal abuse, loss of a child, graphic violence, homophobia-acknowledged (hide spoiler)]

Gods, Monsters, and the Lucky Peach - ✔️ Already on our DB shelf, thanks for seconding!


Mary:
Interior Chinatown - ✔️ Added with CW for (view spoiler)[ racism and sexism, both acknowledged (hide spoiler)]

Mooncakes - ✖️ Excluded, but only because most GR reviewers list it as YA. It looks super cute!


Louise:

Thanks for the detailed comments! Based on your comments, I didn't bother researching Aurora Rising as it sounds like it's decidedly YA. I also left out Grimspace. I have found that a fair amount of romance/adventure based Urban fantasy and SciFi features dubious consent (i.e. falling in love after being kidnapped) which would be a minefield for us mods to try and research 😬

Remote Control - ✔️ Add with CW for (view spoiler)[ animal abuse/death, bullying, fat shaming, graphic violence, mental health, sexism (hide spoiler)]

Trading in Danger, Marque and Reprisal ✔️ Already in DB shelf. Thanks for seconding these. We have agreed on the guideline that if we learn later installments of a series include SV, we will remove 1 & 2 from our DB shelf. Since you highlight Engaging the Enemy has a character with a background of SV, we could consider removing the first two from our shelves. I'm open to keeping them if it's really only the briefest mention and isn't a huge part of the story, let us know what you think 😉

Deal with the Devil - I wanted to highlight this one, maybe even schedule a future townhall discussion? This is an example of Romance in a SFF setting. On paper, Romance in a SFF setting might sound the same as SciFi with some romantic elements, but in my experience in bookselling (and analysing GR for the last decade) these genres attract (mostly) different groups of readers, with less crossover than one might expect. And in reading a few myself, there is a noticeable difference in style, worldbuilding, plot etc. Our intention was not to include Romance and YA centered SFF, but we're always willing to adjust the scope of DB if the majority of our active members feel differently.


Kam:

Of Wars, and Memories, and Starlight - 🔄 Added to pending, insufficient reviews. I'm sure another member will second this eventually, we have a few de Bodard fans around here 😉

Reina de hielo y sombras - 🔄 Added to pending, insufficient reviews


Amanda:

Firebreak - ✔️Added with CW for (view spoiler)[ Child Abuse, Child Death, Child Neglect, Oppression, Slavery (hide spoiler)]