Hugo & Nebula Awards: Best Novels discussion

Two July themes are the books "Highly Anticipated" and "Dreaded".

Pick a book for each category, you can be as subjective as you want. There are no disqualifiers, besides the books we've already read.

I can't wait to read something by Kate Wilhelm and dread reading another book by Poul Anderson

I have currently so little time to read that I dread something really long, like Anathem or Dhalgren - I guess Dhalgren would be worse of the two, since I own a copy of Anathem, and treating that would at least give me a satisfaction of having one less "someday-book" on my shelf.

I would like to nominate Gideon the Ninth as a 'dreaded' pick. It seems to be one of those love-it-or-hate it books, but we'll have to read it eventually.

My 'highly anticipated' pick is Islandia. It's come up for nomination before, and I was really looking forward to it based on reviews, but I haven't started it on my own because I need a bit of a push to begin a 1000-pager ;)

I'd like to nominate Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson - ever since I read "Seveneves" by the same author I'm dearly dreading to read the rest of his work on the H/N list.

And Hild by Nicola Griffith for the anticipated pick, because I've nominated this book so often here in the group - some day I want to actually read it :D.

Hey wait a minute.... are you trying to get me to nominate a book I know I wont like????? Well I WON'T! LOL.

But the idea is fascinating. I know one of my favorite authors would likely make the dreaded list, but we already read his only book eligible. I am curious if any other of my favorite authors will be in the dreaded category.

I have a question: is it to be a book that I am currently anticipating, or a book that in the past I was most anticipating?

As I expected, the "dreaded" category seems to be focusing on the lengthy end of the page scale. I thought about nominating Cryptonomicon myself, but thinking about it, I settled on nominating Ilium. Simmons is an incredibly versatile author, a favorite, but this long one based on mythology I've been dreading.

One that I've been trying to get to for months is Queen of Angels, not only for the story but to fulfill "Q" in the Alphabet Challenge. That's my "anticipating" nomination, and it's fewer pages than one of the tomes in the "dreaded" category, so would be a good complement.

@TomK: No rules on the interpretation, it can be one you currently want to get to, or one that you've wanted to read for a long time.

well then, Berserker by Saberhagen. However, this collection of stories/novellas only had one item that meets criteria, is that acceptable?

Mission of Gravity has been at the top of my list for a while also.

I was actually thinking about the books that I had the greatest anticipation of all time, and those were Fellowship of the Ring, Dune, and Red Mars (in that order). And none of those books disappointed, indeed none of those series disappointed!

I read Berserker a few years ago. It was great! I started it one morning and couldn't put it down - read it within the day. I believe one of the stories was Hugo-nominated and another was Nebula-nominated, but I don't know if that qualifies it for a group read. One of the other mods can chime in here.

Mission of Gravity was also excellent, if that's your alternate choice.

TomK2 wrote: "Hey wait a minute.... are you trying to get me to nominate a book I know I wont like????? Well I WON'T! LOL.

But the idea is fascinating. I know one of my favorite authors would likely make the dr..."

The idea behind it is to read something that would not usually get nominated.
Since many of us are trying to read everything on the list we do not want to end up with all the worst titles towards the end. So mixing in a few books-we-do-not-look-forward-to-but-eventually-have-to-read allowed us to avoid that potential problem.
Hope it makes more sense now.

That does make sense. And with that understanding, I know exactly which book fits that description for me. The Yiddish Policemen's Union by Michael Chabon.

When I first read Berseker in the early 1990s it was a shock - that was what I wanted from SF as a teen. Before that in he USSR most English language SF was selected to be peaceful and hard, so after the fall there was a flood of new for us authors from the 60s

For anticipated, I nominate The Wanderer by Fritz Leiber. I have nominated it before, and I hope it wins eventually.

For most dreaded, Red Mars. I have read two books by this guy and have liked neither of them. I hope it loses.

If I'm reading this correctly, so far we have:

Dreading:
Gideon the Ninth
Cryptonomicon
Ilium
The Yiddish Policemen's Union
Red Mars
Either Dhalgren or Anathem, it wasn't clear to me which one Antti was nominating.

Anticipating:
Islandia
Hild
Queen of Angels
Mission of Gravity
The Wanderer

Art, did you have specific Wilhelm/Anderson books in mind?

Sorry I was unclear: I'm going with Dhalgren.

+ The Yiddish Policemen's Union will help with the alphabet challenge from another thread, so slightly less dreaded

Thanks for clarifying, Antti!

Is “less dreaded” a case for saying that’s your “anticipated” pick, Rebecca? Or is that a new category lol

Poor Kateble. Didn’t all THREE of Kim Stanley Robinson’s Mars novels get awards?

Indeed, Red Mars won the Nebula & BFSA; Green Mars and Blue Mars each won the Hugo & Locus SF. For my money, Red Mars was FAR better than the other KSR books I've read. Green was really good too and I still haven't got to Blue (maybe later this year). KSR does write them long though!

Kateblue wrote: "For most dreaded, Red Mars. I have r..."

The Mars trilogy should probably be a challenge, not a monthly.

Kalin wrote: "The Mars trilogy should probably be a challenge, not a monthly."

I agree, each volume is quite large

Allan, I'll go with

Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang

And

A Midsummer Tempest - sounds pretty bad

Hey this is great! Especially seeing as 2 books I considered a really great read have ended up in the "dreaded" nominations (Ilium and Red Mars). Big points to the group for the diversity in appreciation :-)

(on the ..Mars topic - Blue Mars was really an eyeopener for me as I hadn't before considered the ethics of the environmental repercussion of human settlement. but then, I am a fan of KSR anyway.)

Allan wrote: "Is “less dreaded” a case for saying that’s your “anticipated” pick, Rebecca? Or is that a new category lol"

Haha, if we eventually run out of categories, "slightly less dreaded" would definitely be a contender!

With the changes mentioned above, here's where we are:

Dreading:
Gideon the Ninth
Cryptonomicon
Ilium
The Yiddish Policemen's Union
Dhalgren
A Midsummer Tempest

Anticipating:
Islandia
Hild
Queen of Angels
Mission of Gravity
The Wanderer
Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang

I'm torn on Red Mars, being the first of a series and part of a potential larger series challenge down the road. However, I object less because it is the first book. Gideon the Ninth, Ilium, Queen of Angels and Mission of Gravity are all also first books in a duology or trilogy as well, and three of those have H/N-nominated sequels, so those could also be series or "series completion" challenges later. A Midsummer Tempest is also part of a series, but is not a continuation of a story in the other books.

TomK2 wrote: "Poor Kateble. Didn’t all THREE of Kim Stanley Robinson’s Mars novels get awards?"

Oh, I know they all got awards.

Since you are unwanting Red Mars, I will second A Midsummer Tempest. I dread me another Poul Anderson.

Allan wrote: "

I'm torn on Red Mars, being the first of a series and part of a potential larger series challenge down the road. However, I object less because it is the first book. Gideon the Ninth, Ilium, Queen of Angels and Mission of Gravity are all also first books in a duology or trilogy as well, and three of those have H/N-nominated sequels, so those could also be series or "series completion" challenges later. A Midsummer Tempest is also part of a series, but is not a continuation of a story in the other books."

Yeah I suppose that works fine too. Like the New Crobuzon trilogy, we read Perdido Street as a monthly first and then expanded it into a challenge, which could probably work well for Mars.

Kalin wrote: "we read Perdido Street as a monthly first and then expanded it into a challenge, which could probably work well for Mars."

Oh no, lets not do that (ever) again. I have said this before, but I think we should avoid Challenges as much as possible and reserve them only for the series that have many non-nominated works.

Since the Mars books are all on our list, they shouldn't be used as a challenge but read as MR's, for example in consequent months (e.g. Red in June, Blue in July, Green in August, with the second MR every month being some standalone book) or over two months (with no other MRs).

These polls are killing me. Only one wins, yet more than one tweak my interest. Never heard of The Wanderer, and there it is available for immediate borrow at my local digital library. I am drowning here..... I would have to quit my job and hide myself away from my family to keep my head above water.

TomK2 wrote: "I would have to quit my job and hide myself away from my family to keep my head above water.."

If this allows to read more - why not? :)

Yes Antti, that may be the right approach for the award winning series.

We ended up with an interesting and varied selection! Nice job people.

Antti wrote: "I think we should avoid Challenges as much as possible and reserve them only for the series that have many non-nominated works."
I agree with this. If we end up reading a trilogy where someone doesn't wish to continue, there's always buddy reads or old threads/re-reads to participate in that month :)

Allan wrote: "I'm torn on Red Mars"
Doesn't seem to be any harm putting it in the poll. If the people don't want it they won't vote. If the people want it you'll work something out :P

My only hesitation on that approach was that we have the monthly themes laid out going forward, but we can be flexible. I'll put it up and we can see what happens.

Polls are up!

It looks like it's what the people wanted :P

(Although it's still close enough to change)

My biggest concern is that the group gravitates heavily towards winners, and not to the more obscure books on the list. Of the 85 monthly reads, 33 have been winners and we’ve read 10 of the 25 double winners in four years. It’s natural that you want to read the best, but there’s lots of good stuff we’ll never get to. I was thinking of proposing a limit on winner nominations but based on previous discussions, I’m not sure anyone really cares.

One possible method wold be to periodically pick a specific year, then read all the nominees culminating in reading the winner last. What would that mean, 4 or 5 nominees and one winner? It could be done once or twice a year, running alongside a monthly pick each month with a different criteria. Previously read books left out, such a theme would emphasize nominees over winners. And a particular year would be a theme unto itself, we could argue if the voters got it right that year! LOL.

I think there are some GREAT ones that were not winners

Winners definitely don't mean best of the year, but I'm okay with us going through the winners at a faster rate than nominees. I personally started a "read the winners" challenge before finding this group and I have a spreadsheet just dedicated to winners that I'm slowly working my way through. So I'm more likely to vote for them, because at one point I bought a stack of winners, added them to my physical TBR shelf, and they keep calling to me with their siren wail. I'd rather get through the books I own than borrow from the library or buy new ones.

Thinking it through, I don't think it matters that much. I do like TomK2's idea of picking a year though, as I have quite a few years where I've read most of the books and want to finish them out. Unless the group grows drastically and has more members that speak up and vote, we'll develop a concentration of voters that have read winners heavily, and they'll move on to other nominees.

It was not at all my point that the winners are exclusively the best books. But we apparently have a lot of people who want to read them over non-winners, myself included. I just wanted to raise awareness. Maybe we just need a theme of "obscure nominees" sometime.

I have a couple of obscure nominees I want to read, so I have some ideas. One of them is the second book of a group, though, so I'm not sure just how that should work. The first book won the Bram Stoker award the previous year.

Book #1 The Thread That Binds the Bones
Book #2 on our list The Silent Strength of Stones
and #3 Spirits That Walk in Shadow no nominations I know of

By looking at the descriptions here https://www.goodreads.com/series/5430... it appears that the books all have different MC's, so maybe they do not need to be read together.

One of these days my monthly theme will just be to read as many of the books I have already put on my Kindle and never gotten to! LOL.

I’m sure we all have that problem in various forms. Mine is lots of old sf books, paperbacks of 200 pages. I try to have a blitz on those once a year.

Allan wrote: "Unless the group grows drastically and has more members that speak up and vote..."

I would guess less than half of voters are challenging themselves to read everything. There are always voters who don't even participate in the discussions.

I think that's part of the appeal of this being a 'public' group, and one that people can easily discover - having those mainstream, well-known titles ultimately helps the group grow, and there are no obligations on the level of participation which might scare people away. There's always ENCs for you hardcore lot, if you want to veto a winner or something you've read before :)

As a side note for admins, it's quite useful for each book to be tagged in its discussion thread by the creator; that means that people can find the group right on each book's page, under "Topics about this book". It's especially good for obscure books. But not all of our discussion threads get tagged.

@Sarah
Thanks for letting us know about the book tags. I think some mods either forget or simply don't use that feature. I may have to check every one of their posts and fix it manually.

When a discussion is launched, there is a way to tag the book. I do this because it shows each members progress and/or rating of the book.

Is this the book tags thing you are talking about? Because if not, I am an admin that doesn't know.

Kateblue wrote: "I do this because it shows each members progress and/or rating of the book."

Oh yeah, I wondered how that happened. That's one of my favourite features. Yes, same thing. I haven't checked every thread, but I noticed it was missing from TSITS no spoilers thread.

There's also 'tagging' in the posts after the first one, which is just linking a book in the proper format. So that's a good thing for everyone to do (you already do that anyway Kate).

Well, I must have missed doing it for the TSITS no spoilers thread. Sorry!

OK! Fixed.

I'm always doing these right before I go to sleep, so sometimes I goof. And I have to wait an hour to be able to make more than 3 topics in a row because Goodreads has a bot smeller and just blocks trying to make more than three. Stupid Goodreads