Reading the Detectives discussion

Welcome to our June 21 Challenge Read of The Secret of Chimneys by Agatha Christie

Published in 1925 this is the first book featuring Superintendent Battle. The other books are:
1. The Secret of Chimneys (1925)
2. The Seven Dials Mystery (1929)
3. Cards on the Table (1936)
4. Murder Is Easy (1939)
aka Easy to Kill
5. Towards Zero (1944)

Published in 1925 The Secret of Chimneys marks the first appearance of Inspector Battle and was the last book to be published by Bodley Head, thus fulfilling the terms of Agatha Christie's six book option. While Inspector Battle would only appear in a further four novels, Collins (later HarperCollins) would remain Christie's publisher for the rest of her life. Her new agent Edmund Cork of Hughes Massie had negotiated much more favourable terms with Collins (a £200 advance per title for the next three books). John Lane, then publisher at Bodley Head, had replied that if anyone wished to pay that much for Christie's novels, they were welcome to her. https://www.agathachristie.com/storie...

A young drifter finds more than he bargained for when he agrees to deliver a parcel to an English country house. Little did Anthony Cade suspect that a simple errand on behalf of a friend would make him the centrepiece of a murderous international conspiracy. Someone would stop at nothing to prevent the monarchy being restored in faraway Herzoslovakia.

The combined forces of Scotland Yard and the French Surete can do no better than go in circles – until the final murder at Chimneys, the great country estate that yields up an amazing secret.

Please feel free to post spoilers in this thread.

Opening up our new threads a day early as it is a holiday weekend.

Thank you very much to Susan for the great introduction to our latest challenge book and the details of the other Inspector Battle books.

Who is reading this one? I've finished it and must admit I struggled with it a bit - it's another of Christie's early thrillers rather than a mystery.

Yes, a thriller, much more than a mystery. I do prefer her more traditional murder mysteries, but I thought this was a lot of fun.

Oh sorry, just realised I put my comment in the spoiler thread! I will put it over in the general thread as well. :)

I think Christie's thriller-style books can be uneven but I love this one. The characters are a lot of fun and such a good contrast to Battle who looks so solid and unimaginative but often has a revealing twinkle in his eye ;)

I liked this one of Christie's. I found the characters to be fun with plenty of humour. I have to admit I was guessing at people being a famous jewel thief. I thought I had the right person and then talked myself out of it, only to suspect the person again at a later time. Although Superintendent Battle was supposed to be the main detective I thought he kept rather a low profile in the case, and there were detectives cropping up all over the place, which was funny in it's way. The Red Hand gang were also farcical and found I couldn't take them seriously. Lord Caterham with his eat, sleep, repeat was sweet. All in all, I thought this was a very light-hearted book.

Lord Caterham is a wonderful character!

There is certainly a lot to not be taken seriously in this book and the ending is far fetched even for this genre. I would have preferred Cade to not be a king but he may enjoy playing with his tiny imaginary country. I hope the life expectancy is longer than his friend foretold.

I have just finished Cleek, the Master Detective, first published in 1918, which has a similar 'twist' (view spoiler)[ as Cleek is revealed to be the heir to a Ruritanian-ish European country. (hide spoiler)]

Roman Clodia wrote: "I think Christie's thriller-style books can be uneven but I love this one. The characters are a lot of fun and such a good contrast to Battle who looks so solid and unimaginative but often has a re..."

Yes! He and Lord Caterham were two favorite characters- Bundle, too! I liked Anthony Cade for the most part, but he got a little too James Bondish at the end or something, I don’t know, it all kind of fizzled for me at the very end. I guess that’s the uneven part mentioned above about Christie’s early thrillers. This had that sort of adventurous fun feel, almost melodrama, plus humor (anyone else find Lord C., peevish old guy, similar to the bad guy in “Brown Suit”? Or was that just me?)

Sandy wrote: "Lord Caterham is a wonderful character!

There is certainly a lot to not be taken seriously in this book and the ending is far fetched even for this genre. I would have preferred Cade to not be a ..."

Thank you, yes, far fetched is the word I’m looking for.

Rosina wrote: "I have just finished Cleek, the Master Detective, first published in 1918, which has a similar 'twist' [spoilers removed]"

Must have been a very popular trope back then! Now it seems hackneyed, but I’m sure then it seemed quite dreamy and exotic.

Susan in NC wrote: "anyone else find Lord C., peevish old guy, similar to the bad guy in “Brown Suit”? "

Oh yes, Sir Eustace Pedlar! I hadn't made that connection but you're spot on. I had noted that Anthony and Virginia are like the older version of Brown Suit's Anne and Harry Rayburn though :))

Jill wrote: "I liked this one of Christie's. I found the characters to be fun with plenty of humour. I have to admit I was guessing at people being a famous jewel thief. I thought I had the right person and the..."

Yes, it was great fun, just what I wanted with the humor and quirky characters- I did like Battle, but he seemed strangely reticent, and then detectives coming out of the woodwork! I felt she was trying something there, not sure if it was a setup for the big reveal, or just red herrings. I did enjoy her poking fun at the Red Hand gang’s bumbling- good for her, I know there was a lot of fear in those days of communism and criminal gangs!

On the far-fetched nature of the plot, isn't that a nod to the genre? I was thinking especially of The Prisoner of Zenda - whose author is Anthony Hope, so surely a hero called Anthony Cade who is king of a Balkan country is a wink to the reader?

Roman Clodia wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "anyone else find Lord C., peevish old guy, similar to the bad guy in “Brown Suit”? "

Oh yes, Sir Eustace Pedlar! I hadn't made that connection but you're spot on. I had noted t..."

Oh, yes, good call, they are! We wondered how those two would fare as they got older - if Cade and Virginia are anything to go by, he will still be a bit of a caveman, but with more humor and polish!

Roman Clodia wrote: "On the far-fetched nature of the plot, isn't that a nod to the genre? I was thinking especially of The Prisoner of Zenda - whose author is Anthony Hope, so surely a hero called Antho..."

Good point. ;)

I liked Lord Caterham and Bill - I was a bit disappointed that Virginia didn't end up with Bill, although it became obvious after a bit that Anthony would be the one.

Earlier on I did wonder if he actually was the jewel thief, but then realised that as he was Virginia's Mr Right, this was not going to happen!

Yes, once the happy couple is identified two suspects are struck off the list.

True, the predictable tropes take some of the mystery away, don’t they? ;)

Lord Caterham was also my favorite in this book, but not enough of a winner to make this a 5 star read for me. Christie is so good at characterization in so many of her books, its always a disappointment when they feel cartoonish.

I didn't particularly enjoy this. I found Cade a bit irritating. It was a bit disjointed to me, are we looking for the jewel or the manuscript (or the letters)?

Enjoyed Lord Caterham, he reminded me of characters in Ngaio Marsh novels. I would have liked him to have played a greater part in the solution though.

Susan in NC wrote: "Roman Clodia wrote: "I think Christie's thriller-style books can be uneven but I love this one. The characters are a lot of fun and such a good contrast to Battle who looks so solid and unimaginati..."

I loved the scene with Lord C and his poached egg.

I enjoyed this one, possibly I like the 'thrillers' because they just romp along asking no more of me than to enjoy. The more serious Poirot and Marple plots force me into trying to deduce the answer!

The person who was the found to be the jewel thief was a poor choice and not well developed at all. Just a bit of a throw away, But Christie probably wanted to avoid copying another of her novels where one of the sympathetic characters was the perpetrator. Bill reminded me of this character a little, so choosing Bill would have been a mistake.

Yes, the egg scene was funny, but also appallingly class ridden. Similarly uncomfortable were the comments on the women in Anthony Cade's tour group. But, I find I prefer to put those criticisms aside and just enjoy.

I agree with all the previous posts. I enjoyed the melodrama and humor. Cade as king of a country...that's farcical in itself.

I quite enjoyed this one as well, and had hoped Virginia might have played a stronger role a la Tommy and Tuppence. It is interesting that Supt Battle was essentially supplanted by Cade as investigator (not to mention all the other detectives!).

Frances wrote: "It is interesting that Supt Battle was essentially supplanted by Cade as investigator (not to mention all the other detectives!)."

I had the same thought, and connected it with our buddy read of . I have decided that having an amateur investigator doesn't really work for me unless there are no policemen around (like Murder on the Orient Express) or they are really stupid. Otherwise we need to see the police carrying out their investigations with due diligence, recognising clues, and questioning witnesses and suspects, or it just looks as if Supt Battle (and DI Shelley in the Calamity) are rather dim, and lazy, and over-reliant on amateurs.

Frances wrote: "I quite enjoyed this one as well, and had hoped Virginia might have played a stronger role a la Tommy and Tuppence. It is interesting that Supt Battle was essentially supplanted by Cade as investig..."

I agree re Virginia. She really is a former diplomat's wife! And will provide a romantic and attractive queen to Cade's king. But you are so right, why not give her a stronger role? It is possible that the 1930s novels gave women stronger roles. I'll check what I've written about sexism in AC in a couple of papers I've written.

To follow on re women in Christie novels. I see the 1920s women as almost flappers at times, and by the 1930s Christie is depicting a wider variety of women. So Virginia fits into the 1920s way in which women in Christie novels were likely to behave.

Robin wrote: "To follow on re women in Christie novels. I see the 1920s women as almost flappers at times, and by the 1930s Christie is depicting a wider variety of women. So Virginia fits into the 1920s way in ..."

Hi Robin-that sounds like an interesting study, as I've always struggled with some of Christie's representations of women, particularly as we assume she was quite a strong woman herself.

I reread this book last week and like many here found it light-hearted and fun. I found myself laughing out loud so many times. I also kept suspecting one character till I dropped that one for another only to come back to the previous suspect.

I enjoyed the book quite a bit this time. My first read did not bring me so many laughs. I think I rushed through it to figure whodunit.

I struggled a bit to get my head around the plot of this one, as I didn't really understand why Cade takes on this mission which is so personal to him but does it in disguise.

There seems to be an awful lot of coincidence involved, and I didn't quite see why the manuscript was so important - then again, I remember this theme also cropped up in another early Christie thriller where there was a document that was needed to "save England".

I also felt too many people turn out to be other people in disguise for my liking!

Apart from Cade really being Prince Nicholas, Hiram Fish is really a Pinkerton man, Monsieur Lemoine is really King Victor, and Miss Brun is the former Queen Varaga... have I missed any?!

Hahahaha..Judy, I think you have covered them all. When you put this way it does sound ridiculous but I did enjoy the book irrespective of the number of disguises.

Frances wrote: "Robin wrote: "To follow on re women in Christie novels. I see the 1920s women as almost flappers at times, and by the 1930s Christie is depicting a wider variety of women. So Virginia fits into the..."
Yes, I love looking at the way in which Christie and others work with class, sexism, racism etc, as well as the genres for which they are renowned. I was appalled (as were others on Good Reads) with the way in which rape was treated in Nemesis, so started looking at how Christie dealt with women in her earlier books. I liked the way in which Tommy and Tuppence were equals and Tuppence in Nor M was a very good rejection of the stuffiness of the secret service attitude towards women. But, I have to grit my teeth sometimes!

Shaina wrote: "Hahahaha..Judy, I think you have covered them all. When you put this way it does sound ridiculous but I did enjoy the book irrespective of the number of disguises."

Good to hear you enjoyed it, Shaina. I do think Christie likes her disguises and secret identities... then again, so do several other GA authors.

Roman Clodia wrote: "On the far-fetched nature of the plot, isn't that a nod to the genre? I was thinking especially of The Prisoner of Zenda - whose author is Anthony Hope, so surely a hero called Antho..."

Oh, that's a great spot, I hadn't noticed the Zenda connection, though Ruritanian his kingdom was.

Another more direct Sheik reference in this one too, like Brown Suit.

Judy wrote: "I also felt too many people turn out to be other people in disguise for my liking!

Apart from Cade really being Prince Nicholas, Hiram Fish is really a Pinkerton man, Monsieur Lemoine is really ..."

I think the second one in this set (Seven Dials) has a introduction comparing it to Wodehouse--Lord Caterham to Emsworth specifically, and all the impostors fit in with that line of thought.

That's interesting, Lady C, thank you. I wouldn't have thought of comparing Wodehouse and Christie as they are such different writers - I will hope to read that introduction.

Judy wrote: "That's interesting, Lady C, thank you. I wouldn't have thought of comparing Wodehouse and Christie as they are such different writers - I will hope to read that introduction."

I'm too lazy to get up and pick up my copy but it was by Val Mcdermid, if I remember right.

Also there was a letter I remember (possibly shared on the Wodehouse facebook group) where Wodehouse had written to Christie about the similarity in their setting (manor houses and such)--I don't recall if these books were mentioned though.

I read this for the first time last year and reread it for our group. It is not a favorite of mine, but upon rereading I mainly focused on seeing what breadcrumbs Christie may have left regarding Cade's true identity. The clues were there in the descriptions of his reactions to comments and events regarding Herzoslovakia and the royal family. I have to say that I was really impressed with Christie's skill on the reread.

Marie wrote: "I read this for the first time last year and reread it for our group. It is not a favorite of mine, but upon rereading I mainly focused on seeing what breadcrumbs Christie may have left regarding C..."
And the behaviour of the man who changed his affiliation with the murdered king to Anthony Cade. This was also handled well, with the possibility that Cade's worries about this were because he did not want to be watched.

Robin wrote: "And the behaviour of the man who changed his affiliation with the murdered king to Anthony Cade. This was also handled well, with the possibility that Cade's worries about this were because he did not want to be watched...."

In retrospect, I can see this is a huge clue to Cade's true identity, but it never struck me at the time!

Judy wrote: "Robin wrote: "And the behaviour of the man who changed his affiliation with the murdered king to Anthony Cade. This was also handled well, with the possibility that Cade's worries about this were b..."

I agree that when the affiliation was explained it was a huge head slap for me. Why couldn't I see a clue that big? Quite a tribute to Christie.

True, one doesnt realise that and indeed many other clues that she gives one except in retrospect

I also picked up on the Lord C / Emsworth vibe. Especially the poached eggs, that could have been put right into a Blandings novel.

I enjoyed this, a reread for me. I knew who Cade turned out to be, so I too enjoyed looking for the clues. It did seem a little odd that when “Mr. Holmes” comes for the manuscript, the two cousins do not recognize one another.

I liked Virginia. Bill was a bit trying, always sulking and mooning after Virginia. I believe he redeems himself in Seven Dials.

Yes, bill fares a lot better in Seven Dials

I didn't recall Bill in Seven Dials. I must reread it.

At first, this gripped me so much that I rattled through most of it in one go. I guessed Anthony Cade's identity when Baron Lollipop said that the royalty of HS always had a traditional English education. Eton and Oxford was all we knew about Cade!

In this 20s-thriller world, it seemed perfectly plausible that the hero would become a king, and marry the woman other men dream of. But when it turned out that he hadn't been fooled when "Mr Holmes" picked up the manuscript, and that he'd been right to home in on Mlle Brun -- for me he crossed the border into unbearableness or unbelievability, depending which POV you're taking.

Could there be an alternative reading of the book in which Cade is scheming to gain the throne? As opposed to the "it just fell into my hands, guv", pose. Recognises Holmes and Brun, doesn't dirty his own hands with murder, but lets his rivals be eliminated. Lot of venom towards the "guttersnipe" Angèle Mory / Queen Varaga, who'd started life with none of his advantages but gone rather a long way. Then, oh dear, her pistol goes off by accident.

I'd forgotten how much I enjoy these early thrillers, so I'll give it a re-read at some point, trying this angle.

charcoal wrote: "At first, this gripped me so much that I rattled through most of it in one go. I guessed Anthony Cade's identity when Baron Lollipop said that the royalty of HS always had a traditional English edu..."
I like your ideas. I think that the wicked witch of the west from the Wizard of Oz was redeemed in Wicked, and there are probably other examples of rewriting from a different perspective. I found the boiled egg incident both amusing and so dreadfully class ridden, for example. you are right about Vagara. Why not see her from a different perspective!