Ersatz TLS discussion

" A message for Paul and anyone interested

It seemed that Justine is still working her magic for the two little poems that I wrote and posted when she died have today passed the 300 views. ( photos page 6 Justine and Blackbird, 301, 260 respectively)
Just thought you might want to know. M.

CCCubbon wrote: "A message for Paul and anyone interested

It seemed that Justine is still working her magic for the two little poems that I wrote and posted when she died have today passed the 300 views. ( photo..."

thanks CCC...lovely to read this

scarletnoir wrote: "(re Old Filth) As for childhood experiences in fee-paying schools..."

The terrible experiences I referred to weren't at school - it was earlier, what happened with the family he was boarded with as a small child after being sent back to Britain as one of the 'Raj orphans', having lost his mother at birth & having almost no contact with his father throughout his life.
Anyway, as you say, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one!

Am reading The Sea By Blai Bonet slowly, partly due to a busy last week, partly as its a slim volume and i want to take my time

Written in the 1950s, it is a key Catalan novel in a period where the language and culture were under threat. The brief but vivid descriptions of Fascist executions on the island during the civil war are a reminder that Majorica was occupied throughout by Francoist forces


Blai Bonet

scarletnoir wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Russell wrote: It is made clear in the second book ...

Of course, as you will know, I am never offended if someone takes a dislike to my favourite books...

And no one could sensibly object to your own kind of well-expressed pushback. It certainly made me think harder about the book.

Robert wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Hushpuppy wrote: "(Companies) collect(s) data from other things you might be doing on the side, "

Do you mean from the other websites you may be looking at in other tabs?

Is t..."

Indeed - though my point was (not taking it too seriously) - why do these companies think I shall need a cremation, any time soon?

Cabbie wrote: "A quick thanks to @scarletnoir for the French book suggestion Tu montreras ma tête au peuple. I couldn't wait to finish my current book ([book:Paint Your Town Red: How Preston Took ..."

I'm glad you like it - I've gone as far as the third chapter - Le Banquet - in which the condemned Girondins have a last supper on the eve of their execution...

The book is teaching me far more than I ever knew before about the French Revolution - no surprise, as I'm no historian and not French. My wife - who is (French, not a historian) told me that the book covers the same ground as the Hypocagne history course (which she strongly disliked) - but in a far more entertaining fashion.

I loved Ch. 1 (C'est la fin qui couronne l'œvre) on Charlotte Corday's last days; Ch. 2 (La gorge de la reine), which describes Marie Antoinette's incarceration and execution surprised me in making me sympathise with this queen (I am a died-in-the-wool republican, and resent the absurd amount of space devoted to the 'Royal' family in the UK press). It was interesting, and possible, to check who was who from Wikipedia, etc. Ch. 3 is fine, but there are so many characters that I have - for the moment - given up on discovering more about each individual, as there are so many...

I'll have to give some sort of overall view when I finish the book - ATM, it feels like a series of very well written pieces focused on specific events or individuals, and involves the reader in a way that a 'cold' or 'dispassionate' history would not.

Gpfr wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "(re Old Filth) As for childhood experiences in fee-paying schools..."

The terrible experiences I referred to weren't at school - it was earlier, what happened with the family h..."

Fair enough.

I shall assume that the 'terrible experiences' are not simply separation from birth parents, as many people adopted or raised by non-blood relatives get on fine - so long as the love and support are there. My assumption was a false one (though I wonder what was wreaked on our leaders to make them such total pillocks!).

It's a bit of a mystery why some authors appeal and others don't - even with my nearest and dearest, we have our differences of opinion (I like Penelope Fitzgerald, usually - she does not). In general, though, I can enjoy a book if either the quality of writing is exceptional (say, Anne Tyler or François-Henri Désérable), the content is fascinating in terms of moral debate (Dostoyevsky, Camus, Graham Greene etc.), or if it is entertaining (usually crime writers such as Ian Rankin, Philip Kerr or Gianrico Carofiglio). The categories overlap, of course.

If - in my own specific judgement and area of taste - none of those things are present, I'll either abandon the book (if it really rubs me up the wrong way), or- if it's OK but no more - finish it but not read further. And, as I say, we all draw our red lines in different places...

scarletnoir wrote: Indeed - though my point was (not taking it too seriously) - why do these companies think I shall need a cremation, any time soon


You must, unwittingly, have triggered it.
I have, for some weeks, been flooded with adverts peddling clothes for obese women. No idea why, as I am a size 8.

But that scattergun approach costs next to nothing. Targeting 10 million to net 58 customers might well be worth it.

Russell wrote: "Oggie wrote: "Georg wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Russell wrote: "The Arms of Krupp 1587-1968 – William Manchester (1968)...

I would highly recommend Neil MacGregor's Germany, Memories of a Nation, a sort ..."

In case anyone is interested what libraries might have a book you are interested in, take a look at worldcat.org.

I just tested it using a Norfolk post code and found that it works in England just like it does in the states.

The history I was told by a librarian is that Oberlin College in Ohio started it all with OCLC (Oberlin College Library Catalog). Now libraries around the world can sign up both to view and add to the catalog. Just imagine all the non-fiction that shows up at a library. If the library uses the Dewey Decimal System, the library's cataloger first checks to see if the book is already been given a call number before having to go through the process of giving it one.

Another bit of book trivia - 👍

scarletnoir wrote: "I shall assume that the 'terrible experiences' are not simply separation from birth parents,..."

No - years of abuse finishing in murder...

It's interesting to see/compare differences & similarities in reading tastes. Like you, I like Tyler, Fitzgerald, Dostoyevsky, Kerr, Rankin, but I didn't get on at all with Désérable.
I've now borrowed a 2nd Carofiglio from the library - I enjoyed the 1st one I read very much. I like the tone of the protagonist's narration.

Oggie wrote: "Georg wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Russell wrote: "The Arms of Krupp 1587-1968 – William Manchester (1968)

The secret to making modern guns is cast steel, both lighter and stronger than the overheating br..."

I always feel unaccountably pleased when I came across someone who likes Franz Marc. A lovely place to catch up with him is in Kochel am See, in Bavaria https://www.bavaria.by/experiences/ci.... Also worth a look is The Lenbachhaus in Munich which has a good collection of Der Blaue Reiter paintings. It also has a very good description of what Modernism was about, at the entrance to the galleryhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenbach.... I have pondered the history of Der Blaue Reiter group, over many years. I came across them in an exhibition of German Expressionism at the Hayward Gallery in London many years ago. It was such an interesting period of history, where many new ideas were 'up in the air' and open to debate within a very 'international' setting, at least amongst the community of European artists and writers of those particular times, and of great interest to me was the openness of these creative people to other disciplines, such as science.

Anyway I have written an essay on my 'very lazy' blog on Franz Marc which may be of interest to you. https://jediperson.files.wordpress.co... Who knows I might make it to Essen one day, and would certainly take a look...

Tam wrote: "Anyway I have written an essay on my 'very lazy' blog on Franz Marc..."

This looks interesting, thanks. I'll read it properly later, but was happy to see the paintings.

scarletnoir wrote: "Sandya wrote: "At the research institute where I had my faculty position there was an Indian technician, a woman, who came out as gay. Her entire family just cut her off-she was the designated heir..."

Many years ago, I asked my mother how "gay people in India" lived. Her response? "There are no gay people in India". At first sight this sounds bizarre but it makes sense in a country where marriages are arranged and where it is the DUTY of a good parent to find their kids a spouse. If you have a daughter, you look for a husband, if you have a son, a wife. Simple. Nobody is scratching their heads and wondering about their kid's sexual orientation.

While this conservatism is rife in Indian families, which are obsessed with marriage, I must give India credit for recently repealing anti-gay laws imposed by the Brits, with their negative consequences for gay people. India previously did not penalize gay people in the same way the Brits did, with legal severities.

It is a complex issue.

Sandya wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Sandya wrote: "At the research institute where I had my faculty position there was an Indian technician, a woman, who came out as gay. Her entire family just cut her off-she was..."

those raj laws were probably the same as mainland UK werent they, in line with the policy ended in 1967 in the UK? I have african friends who say the same things about the english laws in africa, governments have simply used dicriminatory legislation that was part of the colonial system, convenient in some places with a strong homophobic policies

AB76 wrote: "Sandya wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Sandya wrote: "At the research institute where I had my faculty position there was an Indian technician, a woman, who came out as gay. Her entire family just cut ..."

Yes, I think they were pretty much the same, but there is no reason to keep them on the books any more.

https://time.com/5388231/india-decrim...

AB76 wrote: "Sandya wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Sandya wrote: "At the research institute where I had my faculty position there was an Indian technician, a woman, who came out as gay. Her entire family just cut ..."

Correct me if i am wrong but i did not think we had any laws against lesbian relationships, as, I believe, Queen Victoria said, when confronted with the possible laws against homosexuality, in Britain, that women could not possibly do that sort of thing, so the women were left out of the legal prohibition. Or is this a piece of historical mythology?

I don’t think that Queen Victoria had anything to do with it but there doesn’t seem to have been any law against lesbianism but maybe you could be done for gross indecency or suchlike.
I read somewhere that it is illegal in a quarter of the countries of the world punishable by imprisonment or even death.

Tam wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Sandya wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Sandya wrote: "At the research institute where I had my faculty position there was an Indian technician, a woman, who came out as gay. Her entire fam..."

i think you are right, i worked with a colleague who told me about this and i dont think there was anything in the statute books that prohibited lesbianism

Tam wrote: "Oggie wrote: "Georg wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Russell wrote: "The Arms of Krupp 1587-1968 – William Manchester (1968)

The secret to making modern guns is cast steel, both lighter and stronger than the ..."

Tam wrote: "Oggie wrote: "Georg wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Russell wrote: "The Arms of Krupp 1587-1968 – William Manchester (1968)

The secret to making modern guns is cast steel, both lighter and stronger than the ..."

Thanks Tam for all these links for Franz Marc. I will catch up with them over the weekend

Tam wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Sandya wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Sandya wrote: "At the research institute where I had my faculty position there was an Indian technician, a woman, who came out as gay. Her entire fam..."

It is apparently correct.

For Joyce Carol Oates fans - this is hosted by the Mysterious Bookshop in NYC. If the time doesn't work for you, they usually archive events on YouTube. (I know some of you are not fans of FB. I wouldn't be either, except I get to see such gorgeous pictures of the Norwich peregrines who recently fledged.)

***All upcoming virtual events will be simultaneously broadcast on our Facebook page and Youtube channel at the advertised time and date.***
Join us on Tuesday, June 22 at 6 PM EDT for an in-person event with Joyce Carol Oates to mark the release of her new collection, Night, Neon.

Cabbie wrote: "A quick thanks to @scarletnoir for the French book suggestion Tu montreras ma tête au peuple. I couldn't wait to finish my current book ([book:Paint Your Town Red: How Preston Took ..."

Sister Wendy, the art critic, commented on David's Death of Marat that it was as if a party political broadcast was also a work of art.

Robert wrote: "Cabbie wrote: "A quick thanks to @scarletnoir for the French book suggestion Tu montreras ma tête au peuple. I couldn't wait to finish my current book ([book:Paint Your Town Red: Ho..."

That's a good description of it - propaganda.

Gpfr wrote: "Like you, I like Tyler, Fitzgerald, Dostoyevsky, Kerr, Rankin, but I didn't get on at all with Désérable."

Very interesting. The one thing that is different about Désérable's 'Piekielny' is that he uses the postmodern style of self-reflexivity. (I'm no literature graduate, and only know this thanks to web searches.) I have recently read some reviews of the book on GR, and it seems there are two main camps: those who - like myself - were blown away by the book (5*), and those who felt there was 'too much Désérable' in the book - in a literary equivalent of 'breaking the fourth wall' in the theatre.

For myself, I very much enjoyed - and laughed at - the comparisons the author made between his own mother and Romain Gary's - both ambitious for their sons - and also liked the way he explained his reasons for writing the book, and its genesis. I can see (though not feel) that others may have found this a distraction: "Get on with the story about Gary and Piekielny!" seemed to be the feeling. For some of us, though, the journey is just as interesting and worthwhile as the destination.

In passing - if that was your reason for not liking the Désérable, presumably you would not (or didn't like) Laurent Binet's either? It also refers to the author's own life, as well as to Heydrich's assassination (attempt/death).

I'm currently reading by Désérable... the author has not appeared in the book so far (and I'm assuming he won't), so that may appeal more to you, unless your objection was to something different in his style...

(I can state with little fear of contradiction that Piekielny is the best novel ever written by a professional ice-hockey player... ;-)

Bill wrote: "Some time ago I picked up a copy of A Digest of 500 Plays for my Reference shelves, thinking it would be a convenient way of getting a plot summary of various titles encountered in ..."

Hmm. Does it have Wilde's Salome?

scarletnoir wrote: "Ch. 2 (La gorge de la reine), which describes Marie Antoinette's incarceration and execution surprised me in making me sympathise with this queen..."

I wouldn't call myself republican, but my indifference towards QEII and her family is rapidly giving way to distaste, especially after hearing about "Queen's Consent" recently.

As for Marie-Antoinette, I just finished Ch2. Most of it I knew from reading Marie Antoinette: The Journey some years ago. So I already felt sorry for her, especially after reading about how the revolutionaries treated her 8-year-old son. She was also mistreated much more than Louis because she was a hated Austrian. What I did like about Ch2 tho' were the references to Hébert, his Père Duchene newsletters, and their obscenities. Some of them are available on the French National Library website (https://gallica.bnf.fr/accueil/en/con...).

Once a visiting Irish writer was interviewed by the San Francisco Chronicle. The interviewer noted that she'd seen almost as much coverage of British royal family in Irish papers as English ones, and wondered why this was so.
The Irishwoman said: "It's a way of talking about family matters without mentioning people you know."

scarletnoir wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "Like you, I like Tyler, Fitzgerald, Dostoyevsky, Kerr, Rankin, but I didn't get on at all with Désérable."

Very interesting. The one thing that is different about Désérable's 'Piekiel..."

i liked "hhh", obviously i read the english translation, i was intrigued by the story and the way it was told

Robert wrote: "Sister Wendy, the art critic, commented on David's Death of Marat that it was as if a party political broadcast was also a work of art."

Indeed. From Wikipedia: "The painting shows the radical journalist lying dead in his bath on 13 July 1793, after his murder by Charlotte Corday. Painted in the months after Marat's murder, it has been described by T. J. Clark as the first modernist painting, for "the way it took the stuff of politics as its material, and did not transmute it"...

and: "Marat's figure is idealized.[4] For example, the painting contains no sign of his skin problems, his skin appears clean and unblemished. David, however, drew other details from his visit to Marat's residence the day before the assassination: the green rug, the papers, and the pen. David promised his peers in the National Convention that he would later depict their murdered friend invocatively as "écrivant pour le bonheur du peuple" (writing for the good of the people). The Death of Marat is designed to commemorate a personable hero. Although the name Charlotte Corday can be seen on the paper held in Marat's left hand, she herself is not visible."

Now, it is likely that Désérable took some liberties here (though much of what he describes accurately depicts the historical record - for what it is worth)... the chapter on Charlotte Corday describes conversations with David's pupil Jean-Jaques Hauer, who by her request was allowed into her cell to paint her portrait before her execution - this really happened. In the novel, Corday asks Hauer if she appears in David's representation of Marat's death - he answers in the negative. I suppose it's possible that Hauer saw some early sketches by David, but the actual portrait was not completed for months after Corday's execution - so the imagined conversation makes an excellent point, without of necessity being 'true'.

Sandya wrote: "I must give India credit for recently repealing anti-gay laws imposed by the Brits, with their negative consequences for gay people. India previously did not penalize gay people in quite the same way the Raj did.

It is a complex issue."

Thank you for that information and clarification of the situation in India.

Tam wrote: "I have pondered the history of Der Blaue Reiter group, over many years. I came across them in an exhibition of German Expressionism at the Hayward Gallery in London many years ago."

Thanks for this - I'll definitely read it later - glancing at what you wrote, I realised that I had forgotten (probably) or never knew (possibly) of the links between Marc and two of my favourite painters - Kandinsky and Klee. I like Marc, though unlike the other two, I have never seen an exhibition solely devoted to his work.

Tam wrote(262): "Oggie wrote: "Georg wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Russell wrote: "The Arms of Krupp 1587-1968 – William Manchester (1968)

The secret to making modern guns is cast steel, both lighter and stronger than the ..."

Seeing more Franz Marc lovers coming out of the woodwork:
what a pity that your website doesn't seem to have a feature for discussion. But I suppose that cannot be changed.

And where is your article on feminism? ;-)

i worked with a Franz Marc fan, she was potty over him

i prefer Kandinsky and Klee but he is a popular artist, however "the large blue horses" is awesome

Hi Georg, the article, 'On The Beach' is finished but I have not been entirely happy with the illustrations so far. It is a tricky one to illustrate I think. A magical realist take on second, third and forth wave feminism!... Plus my lack of energy doesn't help. I have decided to let it become the July blog, hopefully...

I'd love a discussion on Franz Marc too, or perhaps even better to me on the whole 'blaue reiter' group. My knowledge of Wordpress is pretty ropey. There is a way to comment, which shows up as 'Comment' in the side panel. Both shelf_life and CC have commented on it, and I have replied to them. I have comments from you in a completely different catagory called 'feedback'. I've no idea why they are separate.

Shelfie has even managed to comment in both catagories! well done her, but to me it is mostly a mystery... at least I can reply to whoever gets through, but I don't know if others can see the others comments, so probably no use for a discussion. I'm sad to let you down in terms of my scanty knowledge as to how to successfully understand how Wordpress works.

scarletnoir wrote: "Tam wrote: "I have pondered the history of Der Blaue Reiter group, over many years. I came across them in an exhibition of German Expressionism at the Hayward Gallery in London many years ago."

Th..."

If I may: Gabriele Münter is always neclected abroad (unlike in Germany) when it comes to 'Der Blaue Reiter'. If she is mentioned at all (and my perception might well be wrong) her main claim to fame seems to be 'the woman who was Kandinsky's partner'.

She was a great artist in her own right. Was Kandinsky better than her? Maybe. But I'd argue that their styles were so different they should not be compared.

And, in the end, after a very acrimonious split-up, she was the one who singlehandedly preserved much of Kandinsky's work for us by hiding it from the Nazis.

The Sea by Blai Bionet gets better and better, its a sombre, chilling novel of death, illness and questions about life

A chapter is devoted to a sanitorium patient slowly dying, laid out in the room where the dead are washed, the patient recalls his faith and his dreams of the seminary where he could have studied to be a priest as his life ebbs away. Bonet describes as the patient "furiously uncovers himself"

It reminds me of Blechers Romanian classic Scarred Hearts which is also set in a sanitorium but in relation to this novel, Blecher writes in a more hopeful way

I have yet to read much background to Bonet's life, he was a TB sufferer himself and elements of his own experience are probably contained in the novel. Its an angry novel too, anger about being ill,possible hidden anger about what Franco had done to Spain, even on a Loyalist island like Majorca

Am digesting it slowly, letting it linger

Two items from the NY Times Book Review this week:

In the By the Book feature, Jordan Ellenberg has advice on finding “great writers you’d otherwise never encounter”:

Svetlana Alexievich I like a lot, if you can say “like” about someone whose books darken your day so much. I learned about her only because of the Nobel Prize. The Nobel Prize has its critics but actually is the most reliable way I know to find great writers you’d otherwise never encounter. Halldor Laxness, I mean, who knew? Giving a Nobel to Bob Dylan was controversial, I know. I strongly endorse the idea of going beyond the verbal art forms traditionally marked as “literature” but everybody already knows about Bob Dylan. They should have given it to Lynda Barry.

And Jonathan Lee writes about how ” the historical novel is being embraced and reinvented.”

“I like fiction by writers engaged in trying to make sense of their lives and of the world in which they find themselves,” Franzen has said, “and this makes me particularly resistant to historical fiction.” …

Part of the power of works of fiction set in our era comes from their familiarity. A present-day setting provides a recognizable foundation from which other less stable experiences might be productively explored: love, life, loss. But what happens when history emerges as the overwhelming force shaping the entire unstable narrative of now? Franzen’s distrust of historical fiction stemmed from a belief that writers should grapple with “the world in which they find themselves.” Yet by writing powerful literary novels set on slave plantations and in the Jim Crow South, and examining the effects on characters both white and Black, writers like Esi Edugyan (“Washington Black”), Brit Bennett (“The Vanishing Half”) and Robert Jones Jr. (“The Prophets”) are doing exactly that. These novelists are acutely alert to the ways in which history profoundly informs the present.

scarletnoir wrote: "Robert wrote: "Sister Wendy, the art critic, commented on David's Death of Marat that it was as if a party political broadcast was also a work of art."

Indeed. From Wikipedia: "The painting shows ..."

Interesting. Though the master may have told his pupil his plans for the Marat painting.

Tam wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Sandya wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Sandya wrote: "At the research institute where I had my faculty position there was an Indian technician, a woman, who came out as gay. Her entire fam..."

And that none of her advisers had the nerve to explain it to her? I fear that is an urban Victoria legend. What is documented that male homosexual acts, a misdemeanor under common law, were made felonies by statute, and now included private homosexual acts. There was no real debate about it in Parliament. Afterwards, the first real analysis came in a letter to the Times, which called it "a blackmailer's charter."

Are there any John Berger fans around? I've never tried him.

Lljones wrote: "Hey everybody, apologies for the late notice: I'm going to leave this week's page open for a second week. I'm deep in the throes of packing up to return to Portland tomorrow and I've had a mad week..."

Good luck on the way. The cat will no doubt offer a lot of help at the other end. Usually the fierce beast makes hiding places an early priority.

Cat related, non book observation this morning

the street tom called "charlie" is topcat, ginger and proud, he struts down my street and on the bank behind my house, a macho...alpha cat

this morning i awoke to a terrible magpie racket and observed accross the street a magpie pair driving this macho topcat under a bench, over 10 minutes of screeching, swooping and even hopping directly towards him

by the end Charlie was cowering under the bench and had to make a swift exit...

Robert wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Robert wrote: "Sister Wendy, the art critic, commented on David's Death of Marat that it was as if a party political broadcast was also a work of art."

Indeed. From Wikipedia: ..."

i love that painting of Marat

SydneyH wrote: "Are there any John Berger fans around? I've never tried him."

Oh my, that question makes me miss kmir!!! I've read quite a bit, but not as much as kmir. And I've read more of his philosophy and non-fiction than his fiction. But tell me which you're after and I'll throw a few titles at you.

I've just read this passage from the first volume of Robertson Davies' The Salterton Trilogy: Tempest-Tost; Leaven of Malice; A Mixture of Frailties and thought it might strike a chord:

She ... was a victim of that lust for books which rages in the breast like a demon, and which cannot be stilled save by the frequent and plentiful acquisition of books. This passion is more common, and more powerful, than most people suppose. Book lovers are thought by unbookish people to be gentle and unworldly, and perhaps a few of them are so. But there are others who will lie and scheme and steal to get books as wildly and unconscionably as the dope-taker in pursuit of his drug. They may not want the books to read immediately, or at all; they want them to possess, to range on their shelves, to have at command.

Gpfr wrote: "I've just read this passage from the first volume of Robertson Davies' The Salterton Trilogy: Tempest-Tost; Leaven of Malice; A Mixture of Frailties and thought it might strike a chord..."

BIG chord - thank you!!!

Robert wrote: " Usually the fierce beast makes hiding places an early priority..."

Mario was nosier than usual on the drive to Portland, but otherwise appeared unscathed. Here's the amazing part: when I set him down in the Portland house (a house he hadn't seen for ten months), he looked left, looked right, and I saw a lightbulb go off in his head: "I know where the treats are in this house!" He walked immediately over to the treat drawer, did his usual somersault pose until I gave him a treat, then walked to his favorite sleeping place and settled in for a nap. It was so amazing!

Gpfr wrote: "But there are others who will lie and scheme and steal to get books as wildly and unconscionably as the dope-taker in pursuit of his drug."

Would people here actually lie or steal to obtain a book? (Of course, if you would, you'd probably also lie in replying to this query.) I'm very much one for accumulating books, but say, if I were visiting someone, either a close friend, a casual acquaintance, or a virtual stranger, and saw a longed-for out-of-print book on their shelves, I would never scheme on how to get it out of the house in my possession.

Bill wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "But there are others who will lie and scheme and steal to get books as wildly and unconscionably as the dope-taker in pursuit of his drug."

Would people here actually lie or steal to ..."

i wouldnt, i might ask to borrow a rare book if i saw it though