Play Book Tag discussion

On June 15th Joy D, Steven and myself will begin reading this book. Anyone is welcome to join us!

The Guns at Last Light: The War in Western Europe, 1944-1945

Looking forward to it!

Anyone else start yet? I got through the prologue and and 1/4 of chapter 1. How about as we make comments, we head the the post with Chapter # that way no one reads anything they might not know about? Or do we want to be more ridged and do 2 chapters a week until we finish? They are awfully long.


@ Joy, have not heard from Steven, so I am going to try sending him an IM as reminder.

I have not started it but it is here waiting... I think I could do two chapters a week though I am flexible with any other method.

Steven wrote: "I have not started it but it is here waiting... I think I could do two chapters a week though I am flexible with any other method."

Let's wait to hear from Joy, but I am really good @ 2 chapters a week.

I read the prolog last night and will start by saying that Rick Atkinson is an amazing historian and author – it is a pleasure to be reading him again.

My first comment relates to postwar Europe: though here in the U.S. we made great sacrifices during WW II, I think the damage done to Europe was unimaginable – cities completely destroyed, economies shattered, tens of millions of lives disrupted -- in sum, the human cost to noncombatants horrific. Atkinson captures this in one short sentence where he quotes an American visitor to Britain, “Nearly five years of war had left British cities as bedraggled, unkempt, and neglected as rotten teeth.” While still focusing on the military action and personalities, think this will be a theme I will try to follow throughout the reading.

Prologue

That quote hit me square in the face too Steven. My first thought was how fortunate we were to not be faced with that. U.S. citizens suffered and had extreme loss, but nothing compared to those living in it everyday.

Another section that hit me hard was the description of the Americans pouring into Great Britain, and the bad opinion that some Brit's had of them (which I wholly admit they deserved). Then comes this quote They were the chaps that mattered...We couldn't possibly win the war without them. Actually brought a tear to my eye-I have always believed America waited too long to get in there and help.

It really is great to be reading this with others-it deserves to be talked about. Atkinson can keep my attention all night, it is hard to put down and go to another book.

Sorry for the delay in responding. I have started and I'm into Chapter 1. I don't know that I'll be able to commit to a certain number of chapters in a particular time limit, but please do not let that deter you. I will chime in as I can. I don't mind being "spoiled" especially on non-fiction (I already know how it ends lol).

Not sure I can keep up either but that will be my goal

I have 3 other buddy reads going right now. Goals are made to be adjusted ;)

Yes, I was listening to a podcast around New Years and the moderator was discussing that goals were a little too demanding and that maybe "intentions" was a better word. (ha)

Prologue - great quote on p.22, "Wags asserted that the the Army was cutting red tape, lengthwise." How true of both the military and government.

I noticed that, too, Steven. :-)

Chapter 1 – p.69 (hardcover) On this page there is a mention of Bedford, Virginia, not all that far from my house. It notes that 22 men from Bedford were killed in Normandy. At the time, Bedford’s population was only 3,200. Of those 22, 19 were killed on D-Day. That was a terrible quite a loss for such a small town. Today, Bedford is the location of the National D-Day Memorial. If you are ever down that way, it is worth a stop. A little piece of trivia – the only displayed public statue of Stalin (a bust) in the U.S. is located there. Here is the web site if you want to take a look:

https://www.dday.org/the-memorial/

Thanks for the info, Steven. It's the type place we would visit if we ever are in the area.

Thanks for the link Steven! There is a book on this The Bedford Boys: One American Town's Ultimate D-Day Sacrifice, it is on my TBR

Chapter 1

Each time I read about D-Day my mind goes to what "what did it look like, all those ships crossing the Channel?" There's a quote here that struck me War in these conditions is, for a short span, magnificent. Truly must of been a sight.

I had completely forgotten that Hemmingway was a war correspondent during WWII. I am going to have to check to see if I can find any of the stories that he wrote on-line. I am reading The Paris Wife for my beach read and at the same time watching a PBS documentary on him. I recorded it during pandemic shut down and never got around to it. It is very good. I am sure you can find it on-line, if interested.

Joanne, thanks. Recently read the short story, ""The Killers," by Hemmingway and it was not very good I thought; however, many years ago read "From Whom the Bell Tolls" and loved it. He certainly lived quite a life and certainly had an oversized personality from what I little I know.

Finished Chapter 1 and will start 2 this week. This book, as with his others, is just full of amazing quotes. Here is one (p.74) from a soldier in the 29th Division on Omaha, "I walked slowly, dragging my unwilling soul with me." On a lighter note, I wonder how many people heading off to work on Monday morning also feel this way.

Steven wrote: "Finished Chapter 1 and will start 2 this week. This books, as with his others, is just full of amazing quotes. Here is one (p.74) from a soldier in the 29th Division on Omaha, "I walked slowly, dra..."

😂

I am also in Chapter 2.

I really love Atkinson's ability to portray what the war was like. Here's a quote that struck me: (7%)
Omaha was the worst, of course. Stretcher bearers with blistered hands carried broken boys down the bluff to Easy Red—now dubbed Dark Red—only to find that a medical battalion had come ashore with typewriters and office files but no surgical equipment or morphine.

Chapter 2 - Yes, his ability to combine firsthand reporting, short, interesting biographical notes, and condensing largescale action into something easily understandable is pretty amazing.

One of this things being highlighted to me is the role of airpower. Allied airpower was instrumental in destroying German vehicles anytime they moved during daylight, disrupting their logistics, and preventing reinforcements from moving forward. The United States' ability to maintain air superiority right up till today remains critical to our ability to conduct combat operations while minimizing friendly casualties. It is something that concerns current war planners when looking a near-peer potential adversaries such as China and Russia.

Chapter 2-

No matter how many times I read about, it amazes me how many of the higher-ups were real jerks. Montgomery comes up first in that class here in chapter 2. by his account all too often the brilliant plan was his, the brilliant victory was his...his, his his

I have a feeling that down road the a bit Patton is going to give Montgomery some competition for the "jerk" title though..;)

Certainly agree with you about General Montgomery. BG Williams proposed a motto for Montgomery, “Alone I done it.” (p.100)

Think General De Gaulle was not much better with an equally oversized ego. It was reported that conversation with him, flowed like glue.” (p.103)

Combine those two with Patton, Bradley, and Truscott and oh my General Eisenhower had his hands more than full.

I have finished Chapter 2 and am in the mix with Chapter 3.

I started chapter 3 and am nearing the end. It has been torrential rain here for days so there I was on the couch most days reading.

I am also in Chapter 3. Really enjoying this one. Atkinson certainly has a set of colorful characters to portray!

One thing that struck me was that the bocage debacle should have been foreseen. It was known for a long while that those hedgerows existed, but not much was done to figure out how to get through them.

Joy D wrote: "I am also in Chapter 3. Really enjoying this one. Atkinson certainly has a set of colorful characters to portray!

One thing that struck me was that the bocage debacle should have been foreseen. I..."

not sure how far a long you are in Chapter three (view spoiler)[but they did know! and had the Technology, but like everything else...just waited (hide spoiler)]

I wonder though if they were overconfident in their ability to overcome the bocage. Also, I would imagine that once they made a hole through it, troops and vehicles would be funneled into a small lane making them vulnerable to German fire from the far side.

I did not know that napalm was used in WWII -- this is something I associate with the Korean War, and even more so with the Vietnam War. I cannot think of anything more terrifying.

Just finished Chapter 3 and though I am not moving very swiftly through this one, it is a great read. Atkinson does not disappoint. The numbers are staggering – number of divisions, tanks, personnel, air sorties, logistics…, but the one that captured my attention most was on p.182 that 134,000 U.S. military members were killed, captured, or missing. Add to this 91,000 from the Allied countries = 225,000. To put into perspective during our wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, an equivalent number is around 58,000 over 20 years of combat. The WWII 225,000 figure is only from June till August 1944. Truly sad – an astonishing sacrifice.

I started Chapter 4 last night. I am going to really enjoy this chapter, as he discusses a big part of the European theatre I have not read much about, The South of France.

Stephen, every time I see the #'s of souls lost during this war, it still shocks me.

To be honest this was the first I heard of Operation Dragon, and I had know no idea there was another major landing in Southern France.

Steven wrote: "To be honest this was the first I heard of Operation Dragon, and I had know no idea there was another major landing in Southern France."

I knew it happened-I just have never seen it in any else I have read.

I am still in Chapter 3, but I agree that the writing is outstanding. The numbers of dead were staggering. It's one of the reasons I continue to read about WWII no matter that it does not seem "in fashion" these days.

Chapter 4

Well, again something new comes to light (page 201 in the edition I am reading) Known for now as Army B, it was a vivid soldiery Nearly half were from North Africa or the Sub-Sahara, complimented by Somalis, New Caledonians, Tahitians, Indochines, Syrians, Lebanese and Legionaires

This supports a personal challenge, in reading, I made for myself last year. To read more about people and places during WWII, in settings other than Central Europe. It was a world -war, it did not effect just the USA, Great Britain and France. As Joy said this period in history is "not in fashion" for readers. So many PBT members have voiced their "burn-out" on WWII. I don't think the topic will ever burn me out. The blurb above confirms, there is always something new to learn. I had no idea a large part of the invasion force came these countries.

I'm with you, Joanne. I don't think I will ever quit reading about WWII. I agree there is always more to learn.

It saddens me when I see people say they are "sick of reading about WWII." So many people gave their lives. I see it as honoring their sacrifice when I read about it. I hate to even think about what could have happened if Hitler had won.

I do wonder what would happen in today's world if another Hitler were to arise. I am, sadly, not optimistic that so many countries of the world would band together as we did back then. I hope we never have to find out.

Thanks for pointing the contributions to the war of allies other than those from the Commonwealth and Europe. So little has been written about them and they are often overlooked. I think they get a little more credit for actions during the Korean War as it was fought under a UN command. It was interesting to see Syria on that list. I wonder how many people remember that Syria sent a brigade to fight as part of the U.S. led coalition during the 1991 Persian Gulf War. Hard to imagine that now. And what about Tahiti – I am sure there is a good story in there.

Hitler’s rise to power is certainly frightening and think there are lessons there to be learned. I am sure that world has not seen the last of these types of leaders nor the conditions that allow them to rise.

Steven wrote: "Hitler’s rise to power is certainly frightening and think there are lessons there to be learned. I am sure that world has not seen the last of these types of leaders nor the conditions that allow them to rise..."

Totally agree! It scares me to think so many people (especially in the US) are pretty ignorant about WWII and why it is so important to be aware - spot these people before they get into power or do a tremendous amount of damage.

I was at trivia and one of the questions was "What year did WWII end?" It was appalling how many teams did not know. But they can all answer the latest celebrity questions.

Agree Joy, it is, IMO, terrible that so many of the 20-30 yr old crowd are ignorant of WWII. I made a point of showing my daughter my father's medals and newspapers from 1944 and 1945 that he had saved, and the letters that he sent to mother. And I always told her, that this war, and the things that happened need to be remembered.

Chapter 4, continued

How insane that Churchill raised Montgomery's rank just to make it higher than Eisenhower. The pettiness that existed among the Allies...well all I can say is that "you can't make this stuff up"...

It's a bit of a soap box issue for me, as you can tell.

I was surprised by how much antagonism existed at high levels of the Allied Command. Other authors I have read have not brought it out to the degree Atkinson does - it seems to be an ongoing theme.

Had a busy weekend here but am through Chapter 4. The picture painted of Eisenhower is not very flattering. I had him in my mind on a high pedestal - believe I am going to have to take him down a notch.

Loved this comment on page 220, "Germans unable to find white flags surrendered by waving chickens" Though maybe an exaggeration, but still pretty amusing.

Atkinson has made me re-think Ike, too. I get the impression that he was trying to be a "people pleaser" instead of a decisive leader. It is so heartbreaking to see so much go wrong, simply because of bad decisions made by the ego-maniacs in charge. I read the Wikipedia entry on Montgomery, and although not as harsh as Atkinson, it still paints him as man who had no doubt he was far better than everyone, at everything!

Chapter Five

Again I am stymied but the sheer numbers: (page 264 in my copy)
the "airborne carpet" at 4,676 units. Just wow! Can you imagine seeing such a spectacle fly over?

I am still on Chapter 4. I have to say Atkinson is one of the few I've read (and I read a lot of history of WWII) that emphasizes the character flaws of those in charge, especially Montgomery, Eisenhower, and Churchill, and also the in-fighting amongst the Allies. I've read plenty of criticisms of other major figures (e.g., Patton and MacArthur). I don't know that I've drawn any conclusions from this info, but I find it interesting.

And, no, Joanne, I can't even picture it!

Chapter 5 - Couldn't agree with you more about numbers. I am starting to weigh into the discussion of logistics - just how much it took to fight the war. Atkinson notes on p.240 that for each Allied soldier it took an equivalent of 66.8 lbs. of supply every day. I cannot remember the total number of soldiers but sure it was well over 500,000 and probably closer to a million. Just in fuel, it was a million gallons a day.

Speaking of character flaws, wait till read about Lieutenant John C. H. Lee - now that fellow is a piece of work. It is so bad as to be almost comical. He would make a great character in a novel.

I agree Steven, about Lee. I did laugh at the monikers for him John Court House Lee, Jesus Christ Himself Lee and A'Mighty God Lee 😏

I just shook my head when I read that he had a publicist and chiropractor on his staff. Also, not only him, but others of this privileged command, riding around in luxury cars, sipping champagne and eating extraordinary meals as their men existed on dried eggs. I could not find where I read about the commander who was sent a bed and mattress, and he had it hidden away in storage. He could not bring himself to use it, as he watched his men sleeping on cots or on the ground. So Kudos to that guy!

Looking forward to reading about these guys. I'm almost finished with Ch. 4

Chapter 6

Earlier, this conversation, I thought I commented about Eisenhower and how he was unable to get a handle on things ( or maybe I was just thinking about). Here in chapter six a quote explains that away a bit I have a feeling he was a far more complicated man than he seemed to be ...a man who shaped events with such subtlety that he left others thinking they were the architects of those events. And he was satisficed to leave it that way

Luxembourg is discussed here, which was something else I have never read about. I always wondered about that small little country and what occurred there.

Would be interesting to read a good bio about Eisenhower. How did he get from the commander of the Allies in Europe to criticizing the "military-industrial complex."

It would be an interesting bio, Steven.
Joanne, I know Patton is buried in Luxembourg and a bit about what happened there, but looking forward to that part.

I'm currently in Ch 5.