Reading 1001 discussion

HI Zeejane,
I have heard this before from other readers avoiding Holocaust books, you are not alone. I have also heard about de Sade being a hard one to swallow so I am not looking forward to that one. So far the book I disliked the most was The Story of O which is erotica I think. I don't have a genre of books I avoid but I have put aside many books on the list due to length or the fact that I could not get into the book.

That's a good question. There's no topics I actually avoid (and I am intent on doing the whole combined thing so I don't DNF either), but there a some types of books where I read the synopsis and go "oh no, not another one of these". Sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised, sometimes I'm not. And it's usually based on boredom or being over that topic/angle instead of being upset. For me they are:

-I'm a straight white man and here is my vague ennui with life/its so hard being a writer (or other variety of 'special person' other people don't understand). Bonus points for sexual frustration. Examples include: Youth , Green Henry , Portnoy's Complaint, The Red Room, Tropic of Cancer. And those are just the ones I immediately thought of. There's so many on the list.

-Post-modernist novel that asks anything along the lines of "what is writing, really?".. "why do we write?"..."what if the book was about the process?". Once in a blue moon I like books along these lines but it's kind of like making modern art that asks "what counts as art really?"...like we've all asked that already, you're not adding anything new if that's your whole point. If it doesn't do anything than ask what it does, the answer is nothing. Next. Examples I wasn't into: Most things by Samuel Beckett, some of Perec's work as well (there's some others too that didn't make enough of an impression for me to remember).

- "Look at how edgy I am"- there's a lot of graphic violence, sex, probably descriptions of bodily fluids, and likely drugs. Not a lot else going on. I dislike these ones because I don't really get grossed out, so if that's it I'm like "and? so what? where's the book". De Sade is a big offender here: resting his laurels entirely on the vulgarity when my biggest problem with him is that he's a terrible writer. I feel like shock without substance makes for a cheap way to avoid criticism and a hollow work. J.G Ballard has written some of my favorite books- but can do this as well (Crash). Georges Batailles is another one that consistently does this. The story of O felt like this as well.

I generally don't read the erotica, probably easier to do for me because I only plan to read about a quarter of the books. SOOO many of the books are erotica or graphic sex, it makes it hard to read the list.

As an aside, I love to read the stories of Holocaust survivors. I have read many and generally enjoy them. Not so much from the list though.

Such an interesting question, Zeejane. I'm glad you posted because I like to see others opinions/ideas about this.

I read a lot in any given year (non-Covid average is ~ 130 books), and I would consider that I read pretty broadly. However, I do have my limits - Amanda hit on a couple (esp. the SWM with ennui ha, ha). Also I don't want to read about incest, and I am not interested in reading about sexual subjugation of women (although to be honest, I probably wouldn't want to read about any gender experiencing that).

I already knew I was never going to read de Sade (see above), but this final line from Amanda's review was the clincher: 'Like I said when reviewing Justine- it’s not bad because it’s gross, it’s bad because it sucks.". Lots of reviewers complain he is boring and a terrible writer - why waste my time with that. There are SO many excellent books (on the list or not) to waste time with boring books.

One big bugbear I have is pretentiousness. I am not looking forward to reading Ben Lerner's list book at all (apparently it is better than Leaving the Atocha Station, and I really didn't like that novel!). As well there are a few writers on the list whose writing I find terribly boring so they are never high on the TBR list.

There have been quite a few List books so far that were offensive and/or really badly written. I am not in a hurry to finish the last Hollinghurst novel I have to read from the List, and I am bored with the many novels on the List in which the fact that the main character is homosexual is the only 'story' in the book. The books about young white men discovering sexuality and flouncing around being irresponsible before they settle down to adult life are awfully similar
to each other and really tedious. I am unimpressed with most of the 'sexy' books on the List, too. Surely there are authors who write really well-crafted erotica, with beautiful writing and maybe even a plot. If I was only reading List books I'd be more annoyed, but I am reading a lot of other books too. I do allow myself to skim the really bad List books as long as I get enough out of my reading to intelligently discuss why the book was awful. I do think that a group like ours could compile a much better book list than the Boxall folks did.

Zeejane wrote: "Jamie wrote: "There have been quite a few List books so far that were offensive and/or really badly written. I am not in a hurry to finish the last Hollinghurst novel I have to read from the List, ..."

I agree with this as well. A good book is few and far between in the list. I complain about it a lot but I love the group so I keep trying to find a good one or two.

Amazing discussion. Thanks Zeejane for starting this. I will not read all of the list because of all the reasons that everyone so clearly stated. Besides not wanting to expose myself to the material, I also look at time. I'm an older reader and I want to read books I really want to read and not just because they're on a list I won't finish anyway. (I won't be reading the ones not translated). And thanks so much MaryAnn for loving the group sos much that you stick it out with a list that is less than satisfying. The group is about sharing our experiences of reading.

Like Amanda, I plan to read the entire list, and at this point, I mostly have. That means I don't skip or DNF the less than enjoyable books. There are themes that I definitely despise such as gratuitous vulgarity and violence out of proprtion to what is necessary to tell the story, 20th books written by white mysogynist men with a sense of entitlement, and books with racism or that portray any marginalized populations in a negative light.

There may be a handful of non-translated books I may not be able to finish, but I will read through the rest. Often, I am pleasantly surprised by books I thought I might otherwise dislike.

At some point I am going to have to get over my dislike of twentieth century literature written by men as I do want to finish the list, excluding whatever does not get translated into English.

When I first came across the book (2008 edition) I only gave it 2 stars because it was so male-dominated and pretty much ignored genres like romance and historical fiction, which I enjoy reading.

But for every Graham Swift, Saramago or Pessoa, whom I do like, there seems to be 2 DeLillos, McEwans, Ballards and such like.

I don't have any themes/topics I avoid. As far as genre, there are a lot of books about war, the Holocaust and experiences under horrible dictatorships and at one point I read too many of these in a year or so; now I am careful to spread them out.
Mary Anne said "SOOO many of the books are erotica or graphic sex, it makes it hard to read the list", but that hasn't been my experience in general. Updike and Philip Roth are graphic at times but the older novels show so much restraint in reference to sex compared to many newer ones.

I definitely find that the list is biased towards a certain type of book and author, which I think rather defeats the purpose of the list, (and I sometimes groan internally when I look at the amount of books certain authors have on the list). But as for topics I actively avoid, I find it really difficult to read about the abuse and mistreatment of children, or the death of a child.

I read Lolita while I had a daughter just shy of Lolita's age, and it was a rather sickening experience. But at the same time I am glad to have read it, because it made me realise that the popular view of Lolita is based on a misconception, probably fueled by the movie version(s) and lurid covers that Nabokov would have been horrified by. I found it to be a very complex and important book to have read. So I will read the uncomfortable books when I have the emotional and mental room/strength for it. I am actually more likely to avoid the white straight man ennui books that Amanda mentions, because they give me nothing except irritated boredom.

Same with the shock factor books. They tend to not be shocking anymore, and often have nothing else to recommend them. (The exception being 18th Century gothic romances and 19th century adventure romances and sensationalist novels. They tend to have stellar prose and a highly entertaining plot, even if they're hardly shocking today. I'd like to see more of those and fewer 20th century "I'm so edgy, I dare to write graphic scenes" white dude novels.)