The Mookse and the Gripes discussion

This folder is for discussion of the longlist as a whole - there will also be a thread for each book. I will also update this post to include the list of books, and open it for comments when the list has been announced.
This is the list:
A Passage North by Anuk Arudpragasam
Second Place by Rachel Cusk
The Promise by Damon Galgut
The Sweetness of Water by Nathan Harris
Klara and the Sun by Kazuo Ishiguro
An Island by Karen Jennings
A Town Called Solace by Mary Lawson
No One is Talking About This by Patricia Lockwood
The Fortune Men by Nadifa Mohamed
Bewilderment by Richard Powers
China Room by Sunjeev Sahota
Great Circle by Maggie Shipstead
Light Perpetual by Francis Spufford

So as per other thread

Congratulations to:

A Little Blog of Books for the prediction contest with 5 books - tied with the M&G consensus prediction.

Several got 4.

The wooden spoon goes to Gumble's prediction based on the judges which scores nil point.

And to:

Ann Helen - only person to call A Town Called Solace + Ang who mentioned it quite some time ago as a contender

Paula - only person to call Fortune Men

Sam - only person to mention A Passage North

No one called Light Perpetual, The Sweetness of Water and An Island

Last two weren't on Listopia either

In descending order of predictibility - 1st score in # of votes in M&G (top 5 were all in our top 13), 2nd is Listopia position (4 were in top 13):

Klara and the Sun 261st
Bewilderment 16 20th
No One is Talking About This 13 8th
Second Place 11 5th
The Promise 11 13th
China Room 10 90th
Great Circle 2 43rd
A Town Called Solace 1 57th
Light Perpetual, Francis Spufford (Faber) 0 64th
A Passage North 1 95th
The Fortune Men 1 119th
The Sweetness of Water 0 NA
An Island, Karen Jennings 0 NA

Bewilderment isn't due out until Sept 21st - wonder if they will bring forward?

I have read three and have sampled and have most of the others. I think this list might be more of a lit light with books that may not delight all the group, but have a good chance of satisfying the commercial public. I am satisfied with the list. No One is Talking About This and A Passage North were in my Top Five Second Place and Bewildered will be two more and that leaves me a bunch to read to complete my shortlist.

I had earlier said I would not be disappointed but the AZ snub bothers me a bit. All in all, I am pleased since I am leaning toward lit light for relaxed reading.

Initial reaction: I am disappointed not to see This One Sky Day on the list and surprised not to see Assembly. Otherwise, I'm pretty happy with this list (and also happy that there are titles on it that no one mentioned or thought much about). I've read 8 of them, and most of the rest are not out in the US yet, but I'll get my hands on them. I've honestly never heard of a few. The Jellybooks online magazine is an interesting new touch.

I have to say having looked at the books on Amazon, the only one that I want to read is Bewilderment which sounds great but of course is 2 months away.

It does feel a bookclub sort of selection. Disappointing.

Cusk or Powers for the win, but then the judges that picked this longlist may well not go for those.

Counting the days till the Goldsmiths.

Nice to see Holland House on the list, a former RoC featured press.

I have read seven of these - the only one I did not like was The Promise but its actually a book that I think a lot of people here will like I just cannot disassociate myself from my college-era hatred of apartheid I am afraid.

But I think most of the others have flaws also.

I would like to see a shortlist panel with Cusk and Lockwood though.

I think I agree with Sam that its a little lighter than I expected from these judges - none of the six I have not read (other than A Passage North which I did not get to in time despite Sam's urging) immediately grab me.

Nice to see so many unexpected titles. I correctly guessed four and have already read two. Excited about No One Is Talking About This. Still one of my favorites of 2021 so far.

PREDICTIONS SHAPING UP WELL....

1. I will express my horror at the list - largely on the grounds of it not including books more suited to the Goldsmiths/RoC/International Booker - and announce I am boycotting the Prize. I will then read most of the books and enjoy them, but pretend I don't

ALREADY DONE FIRST PART (POST 7)

2. We will (nearly) all get upset at the exclusion of one book (Assembly perhaps this year?)

YEP!

3. We will (nearly) all be horrified by the inclusion of another. It will then make the shortlist.

WELL I AM HORRIFIED BY THE GREAT CIRCLE - LONG HISTORICAL FICTION IS FOR THE WALTER SCOTT. BUT LET'S SEE WHAT EMERGES AS THE GROUP'S LEAST FAVOURITE.

4. [per Wendy] The Group's favourite book from the longlist will fail to make the shortlist

TO BE SEEN

5. Australia and New Zealand are apparently, once again, no longer English speaking countries.

I THINK THAT MAY BE THE CASE AGAIN

6. The list will include at least one book that isn't due to be published until after the shortlist date [this year that means anything from 15-30 September]

YEP - BEWILDERMENT

7. It will include several that, particularly post Brexit, are hard to get outside the UK.

OVER TO OTHERS FOR THAT

8. Many of the choices will be "obvious" after the event based on a complex analysis of the judges' past history that would put Ted Rogers to shame

GUMBLE TOOK EXACTLY 30 SECONDS TO FULFIL THIS ONE, HAVING PREDICTED THE JUDGES TASTE, GOT PRECISELY 0 RIGHT, THEN DECIDING LIGHT PERPETUAL WAS OBVIOUS ALL ALONG

9. Gumble will have "only" read 10 of the 13 books. Having spent the previous 3 months hunting down ARCs of every possible contender, he will then complain he has nothing new left to read for the summer.

I THINK DESPITE HIS ARC EFFORTS HE HAS SEVERAL TO READ

10. The judges will include at least one ineligible book. I fear the "no books over 300 pages" rule I instigated may not be followed.

THE ISLAND APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN PUBLISHED IN JUNE 2020 SO IS NOT ELIGIBLE THIS YEAR

I've read five, including dnf The Sweetness of Water - there are a couple here that I'll probably read.

Roman Clodia wrote: "I've read five, including dnf The Sweetness of Water - there are a couple here that I'll probably read."

Which ones appeal?

I'm afraid I cannot root for Cusk on this list, and I will be starting my ARC of Bewilderment. I was expecting some historical fiction, given the Chair's day job, and we certainly got that. I plan to read them all and then see.

Looks like No One Is Talking about This will be The Milkman of this bunch. As I stated in The Women's Prize discussion, it is my book of the year. I will be singing its praise as best I can. I hope others can find love for it and for those that don't, I get it. I was on the negative side of Milkman.

Paul wrote: "Roman Clodia wrote: "I've read five, including dnf The Sweetness of Water - there are a couple here that I'll probably read."

Which ones appeal?"

Passage North, and I still haven't read Lockwood.

Roman Clodia wrote: "I've read five, including dnf The Sweetness of Water - there are a couple here that I'll probably read."

Roman Clodia wrote: "I've read five, including dnf The Sweetness of Water - there are a couple here that I'll probably read."

You are confirming my fears about The Sweetness

Disappointed not to see The Yield or The Performance.

I am thrilled to see Mary Lawson make the list. She is one of Canada’s best writers. I have read and LOVED every book she has written. Unfortunately she has only written four, but they are gems, all four of them. This one is my least favorite of the four though but that’s not saying much.

Sam wrote: "Looks like No One Is Talking about This will be The Milkman of this bunch. As I stated in The Women's Prize discussion, it is my book of the year. I will be singing its praise as best I can. I hope..."

The Lockwood is my second favorite of the Women's Prize shortlisted titles (I do wish Transcendent Kingdom had been longlisted for the Booker), and I do think it's brilliant, but it's clearly a marmite book.

Cindy wrote: " I do think it's brilliant, but it's clearly a marmite book"

Actually we were swapping "what did you do while waiting for the longlist" stories on the other thread.

I ate a marmite crumpet.

Paul wrote: "7. It will include several that, particularly post Brexit, are hard to get outside the UK.

OVER TO OTHERS FOR THAT"

I believe neither An Island nor The Fortune Men are available in the U.S. Likely they will not appear on store shelves before the conclusion of the prize.

It feels like we may as well save the Lockwood debate for a few weeks and have it ahead of the Women's Prize winner announcement

OK, I think I have done the admin I said I would - will check editions more carefully tomorrow.

I have only read the Lockwood, and there are a few books that weren't on my radar at all.

Paul wrote: "Cindy wrote: " I do think it's brilliant, but it's clearly a marmite book"

Actually we were swapping "what did you do while waiting for the longlist" stories on the other thread.

I ate a marmite ..."

I did see that. Those of us in the states did not have to work hard to stay up for the release, which was a small blessing.

I’m out and haven’t had a chance to look closer, but excited that a lot of unexpected books are on the list. Will be fun to try to read them all before the shortlist.

Surprised and disappointed no Assembly - must have been the length.

According to US Amazon (usually wrong) total page count is 3,864, which is low. Only one book over 600 pages, Great Circle, Maggie Shipstead, though while US Amazon lists it as 627 pages, UK Amazon says 576. I like my books long and am not a fan of plots. Just looking at the Amazon descriptions, not sure I will get much enjoyment from this, but as always, I'm game.

Yes it was too long for me to read in the slot I had it from the library and I decided to wait to see if it was longlisted.

I was at the library earlier today and borrowed A Town Called Solace and Light Perpetual (amongst others), so I'm very pleased with myself. And, like everyone else, I own Klara and the Sun. Therefore, I'll start with those, as well as China Room on audio. Light Perpetual seems interesting, I think that will be my first read from the list.

The Story of a Brief Marriage by Anuk Arudpragasam was such a gorgeous read. Can't wait to read his new one. Also loved The Overstory and desperately wanted it to win, so yay for Powers.

I've ordered many on Bookdepository, as they didn't seem to be available on Kindle (in Norway we have to buy from Amazon.com, so we get the American selection). Only two were available on Kindle of the ones I don't have. Cusk, Galgut and Lockwood should be possible to find in a bookshop near me.

Great Circle: sounds like an upmarket beach read?

Hugh wrote: "OK, I think I have done the admin I said I would - will check editions more carefully tomorrow.

I have only read the Lockwood, and there are a few books that weren't on my radar at all."

Thanks!

Yes I think the The Island is the wrong edition (should be Holland House one)

Before I start getting into the list, I want to extend my thanks once again to the members of the group for making the pre longlist reading so enjoyable. I think it was Derek that I remembered for Popisho; GY for Assembly and many others, Roman Claudia for Intimacies; Paul for The Living Sea; Robert for First Woman... I could name just about everyone here. So before we start bickering about which books are best, thanks again for sharing thoughts on the preread.

Sorry - I have just reopened the 2022 speculation thread, which I closed earlier when I meant to close this year's!

I am going to bed now.

Thanks for the admin Hugh!

Sam wrote: "Before I start getting into the list, I want to extend my thanks once again to the members of the group for making the pre longlist reading so enjoyable. I think it was Derek that I remembered for ..."

Yes and thanks for your signposting of various books as well

Roman Clodia wrote: "Great Circle: sounds like an upmarket beach read?"

To be fair I like upmarket beaches, so perhaps it is for me after all

The Great Circle is over 600 pages but it is a quick read. The historical fiction part of it is great.

I've read 3 and ordered the other 9. Two are coming from Book Depository US - hope my order got in before An Island stock was depleted!

Looking forward to the Cusk book. Avoided the Oprah's pick sticker by buying the audio so I don't have to look at the cover!

I left for a few hours and picked up my iPad expecting to see more predictions so you can imagine my excitement at finding the Longlist! It slipped my mind that it is already July 27 over there!

I have to go look through the list now! This is very exciting.

LindaJ^ wrote: "The Great Circle is over 600 pages but it is a quick read. The historical fiction part of it is great.

I've read 3 and ordered the other 9. Two are coming from Book Depository US - hope my order g..."

Linda, is there a spiritual element to Great Circle?

Interesting quote by Rowan Williams which backs Sam's point re the list being lighter than perhaps many here would like

“When you think of what’s won the Booker over the years, you want something that puts down a slightly fresh marker … That’s not to say you look for novelty for its own sake. The other thing about a Booker winner is that it ought to be a book that people enjoy reading, call me old-fashioned if you like. You don’t want something that is so experimental as to be highly satisfying to the author and a few ultra-sophisticated critics. You do want something that will keep people turning the pages.”

That might imply that Second Place doesn't stand a chance.

Off to bed now - goodnight!

Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Interesting quote by Rowan Williams which backs Sam's point re the list being lighter than perhaps many here would like

“When you think of what’s won the Booker over the years, you want something ..."

Oh deary dear. That really is quite a depressing attitude to literature.

Gaby Wood seems to be doing her best to hide her disappointment:

Director of the Booker Prize Foundation Gaby Wood said that while recent Booker longlists have “drawn attention to various elements of novelty in the novel: experimentalism of form, work in unprecedented genres, debut authors”, this year’s list was “more notable for the engrossing stories within it, for the geographical range of its points of view and for its recognition of writers who have been working at an exceptionally high standard for many years”.

Rowan Williams turns out to be Stella Rimington!

Interesting though that there are I would say on the list two books which are very positive about faith (No One Is Talking About This and particularly Light Perpetual) and two which are negative (The Promise literally attacks different religions - including New Age beliefs - in each of its sections; Powers is more anti-Christian).

Yes I remember you predicting all 4 of those books based on Rowan Williams' influence and relative unzealous interest in faith in all its forms.

Daily Telegraph - for non-UK readers, a reactionary right-wing paper - reaction rather sums it up:

This year's Booker longlist is so sensible it feels almost radical
For once, the judges have ignored experimental fiction and plumped for novels that are - shock, horror - a pleasure to read

Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Rowan Williams turns out to be Stella Rimington!

Interesting though that there are I would say on the list two books which are very positive about faith (No One Is Talking About This and particula..."

A Passage North has a spiritual element too

I think we rightly anticipated an African presence on the list this year but the judges went to East Asia. Go figure.

Well. I don’t know how to feel. I’m interested in A Passage North (because I’m crazy in love with my grandsons,) Second Place, The Fortune Men, and because Louise gives the author high praise, A Town Called Solace, which if not for Louise I would have assumed was too sweet for me. The Promise is interesting because Gumble gave it 2 stars and Neil gave it 5. I’m always nervous about slave stories because I have to be emotionally braced for the family separations and humiliations, An Island and Light Perpetual don’t interest me. I liked The Overstory and always wanted to read more Powers so I’ll happily read that. The Great Circle is an investment of time so I’ll need to see who reviews it. I just bought China Room so I’ll be reading that soon.

I should boycott the whole pack since Assembly wasn’t included. No surprise Klara and the Sun was, especially in light of Williams wanting readable books.

I can’t say any of these excite me, though.