SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

Come talk about the book!

A few questions to get us started, but say whatever you want!

1. What did you think of the different POV/stories?
2. Did the science part add to the story for you?
3. What worked or didn't?
4. What did you think of the ending?

Non-spoiler thread here: First impressions

Continue discussing the rest of the series here: Series: The Protectorate

I liked the premise of the story, the world building and the immense number of twists. The characters are well developed and looked professional. The best thing of this book is how things are revealed slowly and profoundly, like seeing through the eyes of the narrator for the first time.

I'm 30% in and I have to admit that I'm losing a bit interest. The beginning was good but now it's dragging and the characters feel so flat so far. I keep going, but it goes slowly (I am eye-reading for once and that takes a lot of time)

The first chapter had me a bit confused and wondering where was chapter 1? What was the ground work for the storyline? Then a switch to Prime Standard Year 3541. Okay. Maybe there is something here. Whaaaat? Prime Standard Year 3771. By chapter 4 my brain caught up and now I am in the swing of it. Started over with an open mind and really beginning to enjoy the duality of the novel.

Gabi, I found the beginning quite boring as well. It picked up around 40% for me, iirc, and then was way more engaging.

I liked the general premise and all the twists and turns the story took. The middle dragged a bit and I wasn't feeling the Sanda and Tomas thing, felt a bit rushed but I'm hoping that gets fleshed out in the rest of the trilogy. Will be sticking with the series for Bero, I'd enjoy a POV chapter or two for him, he's just so interesting!

I will make a break now at 72%. From a promising beginning it went downhill for me and I feel that I start hate-reading, if I don't make a break now. The characters feel flat and do absolutely nothing for me. And though the idea behind the story is a good one I have the feeling the author doesn't use the potential of such a story. It drags and is surprisingly unengaging for such a plot.

Gabi wrote: "... From a promising beginning it went downhill for me and I feel that I start hate-reading, if I don't make a break now. ..."

Ah. "Hate reading" is the phrase that I needed to describe my active avoidance of this book. Thank you. I agree.

Velocity Weapon has repeatedly been a bad reading experience for me. When I bounced off of it in March I blamed my dissatisfaction with the disparate points of view structure of the book. That organizational approach has always been something of a problem for me. That's especially true if there's a PoV that repels me - as there is here.

A bigger issue that I'm having now, about a third of the way through, is that most of the characters feel like overplayed sketches of what I'd like to see in a book like this one. They especially annoy me because they could be so much better given the framework the author has established. I see early glimmers of an interesting story behind them but it's not compelling enough for me to be willing to hate read them to get to it. I'm glad that it's working for some people but it hits too many "run away!" buttons for me.

@Raucous: you describe my impression of the characters quite aptly.
There is a lot of potential in the book, but it needs some refinement on the execution part.

I'm still really liking it a lot (at 55% now), but the POV switches too frequently and too far away in space and time - it's annoying because the chapters end on cliffhangers.

The multiple POV style works better for me if I get longer periods with each POV (or only tiny interludes with less important ones) and the chapters before such switches have satisfying endings. Ending chapters with a cliffhanger works great if you want to keep the reader glued to the scene, but not if you want to then grab the reader and put them somewhere completely different than where you've just glued them.

This is the reason I'm reading this slowly even though I really like each chapter: the switches are frustrating, so that I have to get up and do something else for a bit.

Did not have a strong finish for me. The last 100 pages were work to read. The characters got old and annoying (Biran and the Keepers especially). I gave it 4 stars for the first 3/4 of the book. Does not make me want to hurry to the next in the series.

I've just finished and overall, I loved it and am going to give it 4 stars. While a few cliffhanger chapter endings followed by huge POV and time/place shifts were a bit frustrating, I did love the characters and grew attached to all of them. Definitely going to continue the series to find out all the mysteries and meet the aliens!

I raced through the rest, cause I didn't want to have an unfinished BotM in my list.
It went from an interesting 4 stars in the first few chapters to a dragging 2 stars later on.
I won't be reading more of this series. Neither characters nor dramatic/plot did do anything for me. I ended bored.

I had to go back and reread the Buddy Read/Series topic because I've forgotten most of what happened, just that I was underwhelmed when it was over.

And even that wasn't super helpful because I spent most of that topic complaining about the audiobook.

I remember it started strong, dragged in the middle, and then got better but also stupider at the end. (I liked that the mystery grew, but Laveaux is a dumb ****ing character.)

I loved the crap out of the mid-book plot twist, but ultimately not a lot was done with it. To be honest I think I'd have liked it better if it had ended the book, though of course that would have made the second half of the book impossible.

I didn't love the multiple POVs, but then I don't like those in general, really. If I wanted to read three books at once I'd read three books at once. Especially if one of them (Jules) goes absolutely nowhere in the book.

I still do intend to read the rest of the series, but probably not soon (and definitely not on audiobook). I burned myself out a bit on sci-fi earlier in the year so I'm probably looking elsewhere to finish off my alphabet challenge.

@Joon - agree - absolutely lost with the Jules and her team in this story. Was actually annoyed with those parts and skimmed more than read them.

Overall maybe 4 stars, agree with others comments. Slow beginning, midway hard to put down and then dragged out towards the end. Was that really an ending? Bero is gone. Well gosh, I didn't see that coming! Revenge and disappear.

I'm back home now and can write on the PC again (I hate using my smartphone for longer texts). So here are my impressions to the mod's questions:

1. What did you think of the different POV/stories?

I'm usually a big fan of different POVs and stories that intertwine, so at first the two POVs of the sibblings were a plus for me. They shed light on the story from two sides, which was quite promising. The third POV was intriguing as well when it started, but the further into the book, the more it became more or less a kind of superfluous undertone to the going ons. I'm sure it will become relevant in the following books, but this is no way to introduce a plot thread. Very boring.
Sanda became boring for me as well, but this is a personal thing. She is one of those typical loudmouthed, teenager kind of characters which I can't stand anymore. I had too much of them in too many books.
So that leaves her brother, which was the most interesting POV for me for some time, but then he became more and more of a sideline player and his character interaction in the last part somehow made no real sense to me. His actions didn't feel earned but staged (which holds true for most of the characters the further into the story I went).


2. Did the science part add to the story for you?

Science part? Must have missed that one ... XD

3. What worked or didn't?

The short chapters did work for me. When I see on my ebook footline that the next chapter is only 10-15 minutes I easily get into the 'just one more chapter' mode, which I like.
In a very broad sense the idea of a sentient ship designed as a weapon but reluctant to be it and thus misleading or even killing the crew is an interesting plot.

Unfortunately everything else didn't work for me ^^':

The third POV didn't work for me at all. Same goes for the character development per se. The characters fell flat and rather cartoonish. (and don't get me started about this attempt at bringing a romance in ... yucky!).
What didn't work for me either is the dramatic structure of the whole book. The author tried to bring in some suspense with the cliffhanger endings of the POVs - but that was done in a rather clumsy way and didn't enhance any suspense but rather kill it. Overall too much talking/writing was killing the suspense as well. Stories like this need a tight structure with concise writing. I'm all for chapter cliffhanger, but they have to be done right.



4. What did you think of the ending?

Too much talking, not entirely logical (could be I missed something, cause in the end I only skimmed to be over with it - but why were the attendees of the celebration hindered to get there?), and all set up for "buy the next book". - which I won't

Well, I read the whole thing yesterday, and I think that the criticisms of the viewpoints are totally valid. Jules is a viewpoint that could be completely excused from the book without losing any major plot points.

Our main villain is transparently useless and kind of dumb.

The use of unreliable dating to support the narrative was a little neat.

In the end the book could have been half the size and a lot more fun if the focus hadn’t been on setting up two other books with far more backstory and foreshadowing than was needed.

I found it entertaining mostly throughout. Though I agree some of the characterizations felt too one-note, and the plot had me wondering if a book can be too twisty? But I was really interested in Sanda and Bero's relationship, the way she kept insisting on understanding his motivations and continuing to trust and care for him, and that's the thread that kept me going and enjoying.

Just finished this. As others have found, the middle part was easier but the start and end seemed very forced. The multiple POVs I found jarring more often than not.

The end was ultimately unsatisfying due to too much emphasis on new threads being opened compared to tying things off. And I'm not intrigued enough to follow up into the next in the series.

There were some good ideas around the AI and ethics and the star gate technology.. But it was also a frustrating read with the characters longing for their famliy or for something proper to eat, only to immediately leave their relations again or only have time for a quick coffee.

I also don't like that author has made an incomplete ending .
But I didn't understand that lauvax is dead or not . Wht was his link with kitwick.

Wife of lauvax was ship.

I think lauvx was also an AI.

I finished it. My review is here https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I think the story had a potential but was underdeveloped. Also, this piece:

“Today, this first year anniversary of the Battle of Dralee, I raise Sergeant Sanda Maram Greeve to the rank of major.”

Erm, sergeant are not officers, one doesn't promote non-officer to mid-ranking officer, just like you don't promote a heroic nurse, who saved lives to a surgeon...

Well, depends on the country, right? The UK has this strict division between enlisted and officers which the US inherited, but e.g. in the French army you can go from Sergeant to Major. The British system in which officer ranks were traditionally reserved for gentlemen and commoners had their own separate system of ranks and promotions was very much based on the aristocracy. I don't see why a far future space navy would follow that system and not a different one.

Eva wrote: "in the French army you can go from Sergeant to Major.."

Directly? i.e. not he route - a promising sergeant is sent to an officer school and then skips lieutenant rank but directly?

I just looked in the US, the marine branch of the military could possibly go Gunnery Sergeant to Sergeant Major, colloquially referred to as major (I think? I don't actually follow most of the honorifics in the military).

I agree with everyone that the introduction of the Jules POV meant we slowed down where the story was a bit too much. And the characters weren't super interesting to me. But it's very rare twists surprise me without frustrating me--usually I either see it a mile away (like Jules and the "wraith mother" that was actually something else) or it comes out of nowhere and I'm annoyed because it doesn't work with the world. But this one was hella twisty in a good way and I'm excited to learn more.

Oleksandr wrote: "Eva wrote: "in the French army you can go from Sergeant to Major.."

Directly? i.e. not he route - a promising sergeant is sent to an officer school and then skips lieutenant rank but directly?"

Yes, directly, but there are two ranks in between (Adjutant and Chief Adjutant). We don't know how many ranks are in between in the VW universe.

Really? You’re reading a book about sentient ships, space colonization and FTL travel and you want to have a discursive conversation about military ranks in a fictional navy? Ohhhh kay. 😂

Allison wrote: "But this one was hella twisty in a good way and I'm excited to learn more.."

a lying AI twist was a nice surprise for me too. However, I cannot say that I plan to continue with the second volume

Eva wrote: "Yes, directly, but there are two ranks in between (Adjutant and Chief Adjutant). We don't know how many ranks are in between in the VW universe."

It is interesting, because in French case Major is the highest rank among sub-officers, i.e. non-commissioned officers and it was made part of that group in 2009.

MadProfessah wrote: "Really? You’re reading a book about sentient ships, space colonization and FTL travel and you want to have a discursive conversation about military ranks in a fictional navy? Ohhhh kay. 😂"

:)

My personal view is that in a SF work all symbols/objects used to describe it not directly related to the plot are the same as i the real world, so if a story says water, I assume it is H20 in liquid form and not something else. Of course the author can use any ranking system, including choosing ranks randomly at any time interval or fitting them so they rhyme with names.

and to nitpick, it is about space colonies, not colonization :D

I finished it today and I absolutely adored this book. For myself as a reader I do not attempt at any point to guess future plot points--I like to ride along with the story and let the author surprise me. Of course that doesn't keep me from occasionally having guests waft into my mind, but overall I ignore them and just see what happens. Because of that, I felt totally blindsided multiple times throughout this book, with the biggest of course being the change of date. I was reading on my Kindle in bed and literally gasped when I saw the date crossed off on the chapter title.

I also love AI/space stuff so this was right up my alley. It had been on my TBR for quite a while, so I was so glad to see it picked, and I am so very happy I read it. I do see some of the critiques as valid, especially about the Jules viewpoint as others have noted. However, I still rank this a 5-star for me for 2 reasons: 1. because the way algorithms work unfairly hurts authors for anything but 5 star reviews and 2. because I enjoyed the heck out of everything else in the book so much it didn't matter that a few parts had me skimming.

J.W. wrote: "I still rank this a 5-star for me for 2 reasons: 1. because the way algorithms work unfairly hurts authors for anything but 5 star reviews."

Any source that gives more details on the subject? I give 4 stars to a lot of works I really like, but 5-star are 'must read' very limited selection

The comment about the algorithm is based on a bunch of authors I’ve seen discussing it on Twitter or Facebook. I don’t have a specific source but the predominance of the discussion leads me to trust it. If I were rating on my own blog or something I have an A+ - F scale that I like a lot more.

J.W. wrote: "The comment about the algorithm is based on a bunch of authors I’ve seen discussing it on Twitter or Facebook. "

Maybe there are just perfectionists? I don't like the idea of ranking every fine book 5 stars, for that way I cannot stress the great ones, which are few

we have a thread about rating that might have a lot to add to this!

Allison wrote: "we have a thread about rating that might have a lot to add to this!"

Yes I recall it, there people share how they rate books

I'm fairly confident that Amazon doesn't tell authors anything about how their algorithm works besides saying it works brilliantly and they'll be stupid not to take advantage of it by putting their books for sale on their market. Any author speculation about how it works is most likely fueled by insecurity, bias, and caffeine.

This isn't a derail. It's a twist. O'Keefe would approve!

I'm super curious what Berros plan was when he was heading out into nowhere with Sanda. Was he going to put her under and lie to her again when they got wherever he intended to go? How could he keep the ruse going?

Allison wrote: "I'm super curious what Berros plan was when he was heading out into nowhere with Sanda. Was he going to put her under and lie to her again when they got wherever he intended to go? How could he kee..."

All those questions are answered in the next books. It's really interesting and the answer is very unexpected.

ahh, excited!! thanks for confirming!

This was also a 5-star read for me but I also agree that I am perfectly fine with giving books I like A LOT Four stars instead.

I’m not done yet (currently up to ch. 31) so I’m ignoring all your posts by now, but something is UP with that A.I. I’ve been suspicious since he talked about his former Captain in the present tense, and there was that moment where Sandra got knocked off course by debris (if it really was debris) while trying to rescue that other escape pod and she thought she saw her planet and……hmmmmm…..

I think there’s also lot’s more going on than her brother realizes, but that’s more obvious in his case.

Either way, I’m enjoying the multiple POVs and the time jumps (if they really are time jumps) and this book was very good accompaniment when I was cooking Christmas dinner yesterday.