Reading the 20th Century discussion

Also is it me or is there something slightly disturbing about Albinus's description of Elizabeth and her skin that's pink from the slightest touch? Why would what would/wouldn't leave a mark, be such a concern?

Alwynne wrote: "I've started and I'm enjoying this so far, I like the dry humour, I'm finding it very funny. Also fascinated by all the references to cinema, from the title onwards. I'm assuming he's partly riffin..."

He does have such a way with words, even those he wrote when translating the original into English.

Rereading the opening sections does make me appreciate the foreshadowing, particularly in the scenes at the cinema. Nabokov is so brilliant, but it's hard to catch many clear indications of time and place, almost as though the characters live in a purified space made of the characters and their words.

Good point Ben, I'm assuming we're in Weimar Berlin but it's only very vaguely represented. Although Margot reminded me a lot of characters in films/novels of the era, she was easily the most familiar feature. I thought the foreshadowing with the cinema's red-gleam and the blood-red puddle when they finally meet under the umbrella worked well too. But I'm starting to find the relentlessness of the parody a bit heavy-handed. The way Nabokov paints Albinus as a sort of 'giddy' schoolgirl overwhelmed by intense desire for Margot works but he really over-eggs it.

I was impressed by his writing but then I read that he was essentially brought up with English so wasn't so much a second language as I'd imagined. Also read somewhere that he altered a lot when he translated this, and there's a suspicion he did it partly because he wasn't happy with the original, so gave him a chance for a rewrite without admitting he was doing one.

Loved your idea about 'the purified space' btw, fits with my idea of Nabokov as a writer.

Alwynne wrote: "Also is it me or is there something slightly disturbing about Albinus's description of Elizabeth and her skin that's pink from the slightest touch? Why would what would/wouldn't leave a mark, be su..."

Almost as though her physicality and vulnerability to touch make her a less suitable subject/spouse for a Nabokovian hero.

Absolutely, although can't help noticing how frequently Margot's referred to as a schoolgirl, he's really underlining her youth, and her borderline status, barely an adult. I know she's an unsympathetic character, but hard not to feel for her. She's in a world where there aren't that many alternatives on offer to her.

Alwynne wrote: "Absolutely, although can't help noticing how frequently Margot's referred to as a schoolgirl, he's really underlining her youth, and her borderline status, barely an adult. I know she's an unsympat..."

I also notice that the focus on Margot is often on her surfaces, her skin, her coloring, her figure against her tight smock, and her sitting as a model for art class and attraction to being a screen actress are other media that emphasise the surfaces. A contrast with Elisabeth's easy bruising.

I shall be starting this today... comments so far have really whetted my appetite :)

Think you'll get through it fairly speedily RC, it's so short and it rattles along at a fast pace.

Margot reminds me a lot of Doris in 'The Artificial Silk Girl'.

Alwynne wrote: "Margot reminds me a lot of Doris in 'The Artificial Silk Girl'."

That's interesting as Flammchen from Grand Hotel reminded me of Doris, so possibly a triptych of young women trying to make their way in Weimar?

Strange, I wonder if Nabokov was partly parodying the Keun-style novels?

Very possibly - and was that 'young woman on the make' also more widely portrayed in popular culture of the time, including films?

It's still around, isn't it, in the 'young woman searching for sugar daddy' role (though she's just as likely to be a student these days hoping for help with her fees) - which perhaps speaks to the continued way that women may be economically disadvantaged. Flammchen in Grand Hotel is quite explicit: 10 marks for a nude photo.

Sorry if I'm jumping the gun here as only just starting Laughter...

I think so and it did remind me of Louise Brooks in 'Diary of a Lost Girl' and 'Pandora's Box' - although they're more sympathetic portrayals. I imagine these and the 'Blue Angel' would all be films Nabokov's likely to be familiar with. And he does seem to delight in trashing elements of popular culture. The only thing I remember about his reading is he apparently loved 'Bleak House' which seemed out of character somehow, and hated Dostoevsky.

Ha, love that idea of Nabokov responding to Dickens' more sentimental moments :)

Interesting about Dostoevsky as there's a similar manic/surreal element at times in Nabokov.

I can certainly make sense of Nabokov thinking Dostoevsky takes matters far too seriously....

I don't know if people already know these but there's a Yale course on the American novel online, it's oldish but still fairly sound, and not too theoretical. The middle three, 5,6,7 are on Lolita, numbers 5 and 7 mostly cover stuff that's in the notes for the annotated edition, but 6 talks more about Nabokov's context/background so might be interesting for this? Some of the other lectures in the series are worth watching too. The link takes you to the intro. but the rest of the series should be in the listings on the right=hand side of the screen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyVAU...

There's also a fascinating two-part TV discussion with Nabokov, again about Lolita but he talks about his intentions in his writing etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ldpj_...

Ben wrote: "I can certainly make sense of Nabokov thinking Dostoevsky takes matters far too seriously...."

Yep, I can buy that - though there is also, of course, a dark (dark) humour in Dostoevsky.

Alwynne wrote: "I don't know if people already know these but there's a Yale course on the American novel online"

Ooh, thanks, I didn't know, that's helpful, Alwynne - I'm actually pretty ignorant and under-read when it comes to the American novel.

Me too, although it includes a few you may have read, 'The Bluest Eye', 'Housekeeping' and 'The Woman Warrior' which I keep meaning to revisit.

I will definitely check out that American Novel course, Alwynne, thank you!

I am not familiar with most of the references noted above ... except for The Artificial Silk Girl, which I read earlier this year thanks to this group! I also compared Margot to Doris, and missed Keun's evocation of the time and place. And I found Doris so much more sympathetic. We get a little of Margot's backstory, but without getting inside her head, her nastiness prevailed for me.

I'm trying to fit Grand Hotel in soon. Love the triptych idea!

Ben wrote: "I can certainly make sense of Nabokov thinking Dostoevsky takes matters far too seriously...."

This made sense to me, and I was wondering if it was spirituality? Then I found this: https://lithub.com/on-dostoevskys-199.... Apparently yes it's that, but also sentimentality he didn't like.

Kathleen wrote: "I will definitely check out that American Novel course, Alwynne, thank you!

I am not familiar with most of the references noted above ... except for The Artificial Silk Girl, which I..."

Yes that's so true Kathleen. Keun's women are so much more relatable. As for the other references, I was completely in love with Louise Brooks in my teens, still think she's amazing in these films. So if you're ever in the market for a long silent movie then I'd recommend them. The Diary of a Lost Girl is the most watchable and it's on Youtube here. About a young girl who ends up as a prostitute:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG3Sx...

Her films and Marlene Dietrich's 'The Blue Angel' were huge hits in the Weimar era, and elsewhere. The Blue Angel's a bit clunkier as a film but it's got sound, and Dietrich is brilliant as the cruel working-class, seductress who ruins the life of an older professor . There's the original German version and an English-language one. Again free on Youtube, in German with subtitles here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6ZGG...

And thanks so much for the link to the Nabokov piece, wonderful, he doesn't mince his words!

Kathleen wrote: "Ben wrote: "I can certainly make sense of Nabokov thinking Dostoevsky takes matters far too seriously...."

This made sense to me, and I was wondering if it was spirituality?"

Haha, love those spleen-filled quotes! Though he does admit to sometimes enjoying the humour in Dostoevsky, I'm relieved to see.

Kathleen wrote: "We get a little of Margot's backstory, but without getting inside her head, her nastiness prevailed for me."

Is it a bit crude and simplistic to suggest that that's a difference in Margot/Doris/Flammchen being written by a female vs. male author?

Alwynne wrote: "Me too, although it includes a few you may have read, 'The Bluest Eye', 'Housekeeping' and 'The Woman Warrior' which I keep meaning to revisit."

Nope! I tried one Marilynne Robinson, can't remember if it was Housekeeping or Gilead and rapidly DNFd. The Bluest Eye is on my TBR but Paradise is my next Morrison to finish that loose Beloved trilogy. The Woman Warrior hadn't really been on my radar but will take another look now :)

I gave up on 'Gilead' too, and haven't had any luck with most of her books, but 'Housekeeping' is one of my favourites.

Great quotes, Kathleen. I particularly liked Nabokov's reaction to heart-to-heart talks.

I do recall Woman Warrior as far more Chinese than American.

Roman Clodia wrote: "Kathleen wrote: "We get a little of Margot's backstory, but without getting inside her head, her nastiness prevailed for me."

Is it a bit crude and simplistic to suggest that that's a difference i..."
No I don't think it is, Nabokov's depiction barely scratches the surface, although he does seem fascinated by class and economic status. But Keun makes her women so believable and I really felt for them, and had a sense of them as people with lives and dreams. Nabokov doesn't seem to consider that Margot may have any kind of inner world beyond greed and foolish fantasies about the movies. But, tbf so far Albinus is not much more sympathetic, and he's weirdly reminiscent of a character from a popular romance, which clashes with his 'learned' background in art and aesthetics, as if his emotional dimension was arrested in adolescence.

Roman Clodia wrote: "Kathleen wrote: "We get a little of Margot's backstory, but without getting inside her head, her nastiness prevailed for me."

Is it a bit crude and simplistic to suggest that that's a difference i..."

I think there are layers. There's that. There's Nabokov's style, which I don't understand well enough to define (but could call it cerebral, or anti-Dostoevsky!), which doesn't lend itself to ready empathy maybe. And then there's the way he generally depicts his female characters, which is often troubling.

I cringed at his description of Elizabeth noted above, and found Ben's point above about Nabokovian heroes' lack of vulnerability fascinating.

Alwynne wrote: "Also is it me or is there something slightly disturbing about Albinus's description of Elizabeth and her skin that's pink from the slightest touch?"

Yep, a careful depiction of her bruisability which conjures up the potential for her to be marked by physical violence. Also reminds me of the princess and the pea, the excessive sensitivity and sensibility of the 'true' aristocrat - fits perhaps with that comment about Albinus living in a 'smug German world'.

Started this yesterday and I am enjoying it so far, though it seems a lot lighter that any of the other Nabokovs I have read.

I think so too Hugh, and the pace seems much faster.

Yes, I'd agree that it feels like more of an 'entertainment' than the other Nabokovs I've read so far, which suits me fine as I'm reading it alongside The Books of Jacob.

I'm finding it hilarious and am totally on the side of Margot ;) Albinus is mostly a fool, (view spoiler)[but then we get those little insights into his thoughts where he's just waiting to strangle/kill Margot the moment she gives him an excuse (hide spoiler)].

I found it hard to take anyone's side -- such a deeply cynical, comic, book!

I was considering ... what actually differentiates Albinus and Rex (view spoiler)[other than the fact that Albinus is blinded by passion (hide spoiler)]?

I'm still reading (I'm about 50% in) so haven't clicked your spoiler, Ben, but Rex is super-cool and Albinus a fool, is my take at this stage ;)

I agree about how cynical and comic it is. I loved the appearance of Dorianna Karenina, which was just after I'd made a note to myself about the centrality of the adultery plot to literature. The writing is less dazzling than some of the other books but it's huge fun and I have no idea what's going to happen next!

Roman Clodia wrote: "I'm still reading (I'm about 50% in) so haven't clicked your spoiler, Ben, but Rex is super-cool and Albinus a fool, is my take at this stage ;)

Absolutely. I was thinking in the "moral" sense.

I do have trouble with pathetic characters.

Having just finished it, I can see why some of you want to use spoiler tags! A tricky one to rate, particularly in comparison to Nabokov's later work.

This fabulous quotation on Axel Rex: 'his itch to make fools of his fellow men amounted almost to genius' - is he the closest character to Nabokov himself? His cartoons the equivalent of Nabokov's writing in this book? The slyness and spite make this perfect to offset any seasonal sentimentality!

Finished last night, will write a review later... but my, how breathtakingly cruel it becomes towards the end!

I'm getting to that point too, and cruel is apt. Nabokov apparently said it reflected his vision of that world as fundamentally a cruel one.

Did anyone else find themselves thinking about Evelyn Waugh when they were reading this? The humour, particularly in scenes like the would-be bohemian dinner party reminded me of novels of his like 'Vile Bodies'.

Yes, but would Waugh ever be so cruel to his protagonist?

(Of course he was cruel to his family, but that's different)

Yes it's more overtly perverse and violent overall, but novels like 'A Handful of Dust' were quite cruel, if slightly more absurdist, particularly the ending, the hero has a terrible time. But the style of humour, the use of social satire seems very similar, at least in some of the middle scenes. Although it's interesting how keen Nabokov is to distance himself from other contemporary writers and writing conventions with Odo Conrad, Baum who seems to be a cross between Vicki Baum and Brecht, and then the reference to Kasabier in the firm Margot persecutes Traum, Baum and Kasabier, brings in Gabriele Tergit as well. And also reminds me of the submerged references in 'Lolita'.

I think Nab is way more cruel than Waugh as it's more sustained. Also (and I hope this isn't just me!) but because Nab makes it funny in an awful, black way, I felt that as the reader I was complicit in the cruelty, especially at the end.

Roman Clodia wrote: "I think Nab is way more cruel than Waugh as it's more sustained. Also (and I hope this isn't just me!) but because Nab makes it funny in an awful, black way, I felt that as the reader I was complic..."

Yes, and this makes it a very difficult book to rate and review fairly!

I felt Albinus was so pathetic, whether sighted or unsighted, that by the ending this had drowned out the comic aspects.

Yet of course, although pathetic, Albinus was no innocent. His treatment of Elisabeth and his daughter was just as cruel.

So, what conventions was Nabokov seeking to subvert here?

(Aside from the convention of the villain being punished at the end)

Hugh wrote: "Roman Clodia wrote: "I think Nab is way more cruel than Waugh as it's more sustained. Also (and I hope this isn't just me!) but because Nab makes it funny in an awful, black way, I felt that as the..."

I wasn't clear enough, I didn't mean the content more the style of humour.

I completely agree that the satirical and cynical styles are very similar