Georgette Heyer Fans discussion

This is the place for discussion of your final thoughts and for any open spoilers of Beauvallet. Please post spoilers for all other books in spoiler tags.

What did you think? Did you enjoy this swashbuckling adventure?

Ah, one of my faves. GH at her Sabatini-est!

The women in this one are pretty great! Villainous Dona Beatrice is my fav Heyer villain, not just a typical mustache twirling baddie.


and the Shakespearean (and other) insults

"an eater of broken meats, a very pungent rascal"

"dawcocks"

"pigeon-livered"

and one I think I will start using:
"fat-wit"

Dona Beatrice is a very good villian! for those in the non spoiler thread saying they don't like our heroine, I say I understand but she really improves. And I like her so much by the end of the book that I now enjoy the beginning, even though she does slap and cry, all the while wanting more of this man. I excuse her because she is so young and the way they raised women was deplorable.
I loved the action and find it very suspenseful even after multiple reads since the Spanish Inquisition is so frightening.
I love the humor most of all, including all those great insults!

Jackie, I also like Dona Dominica! She is young, and look at how she has been brought up, and how far she comes.

I am at the exciting escape from prison part now.

This book is so suspenseful, I am nervous of posting anything in the non-spoiler thread!

Whilst I can acknowledge the skill with which Heyer attempts to replicate the adventurous style of Sabatini and Orczy, sadly, I still don't enjoy it.

I feel that whilst GH could produce an authentic voice and feel for her Regency and Georgian books - she never succeeded in doing that with her other historicals. Beauvallet seems so much more dated than the books set 2/300 years later, and which I love.

Her characters feel like stereotypes to me, and I'm afraid I never come to like the heroine.

Sorry but this one always disappoints, and I won't be reading it again.

I read this every now and again, but not often. It's quite exciting and a moderately amusing way of passing the time but I do find the supposedly C16th mannerisms irritating and I don't find the central romance very realistic. I suppose heroines who don't do much but get rescued just jar on me, however 'spirited' they are: give me Sophy, Venetia or Arabella any day!

Jenny wrote: "I read this every now and again, but not often. It's quite exciting and a moderately amusing way of passing the time but I do find the supposedly C16th mannerisms irritating and I don't find the ce..."

Yes - I think you've hit tthe nail on the head!

Not one of my favourite Heyer books but it’s very well written with some terrific characters in it. I don’t reread it very often though unlike Venetia, A Civil Contractand some of her murder mysteries in particular Duplicate Death.

Well all right, now I have read 'reck not' enough - didn't realize I had a limit on that phrase, or that it just bothered me so much.

LOL, Critterbee - I looked it up, since you mentioned it. I'm glad I did because I thought it meant "fear not" and it really means "matters not". Years I've been reading this book and not knowing the correct meaning!

I feel like I have a hangover this morning from taking a Benydryl before bed, and can't find where someone commented about the suspense. I totally feel that! I'm up to where Nick is in prison, and appears completely fearless despite the threat of being given into the tender mercy of the Inquisition. Chilling!
thank goodness Joshua Dimmick is on the outside, beagling out the horses that will be needed.

Well, I finished it and agree wholeheartedly with Susan in Perthshire’s assessment. I do feel Heyer’s pre-Regencies are just too stylized, all the characters feel like poseurs. The heroine did get over her kittenishness but the transformation to steely heroine and triathlete was not convincing. Joshua was my favorite character; the cynical Dona Beatrice was too impotent to be much of a villainess. My edition was much plagued with typos, which sometimes made it impossible to understand. And what on earth was “ho” supposed to mean?

Abigail wrote: "Well, I finished it and agree wholeheartedly with Susan in Perthshire’s assessment. I do feel Heyer’s pre-Regencies are just too stylized, all the characters feel like poseurs. The heroine did get ..."

You put my thoughts so much better Abigail - 'just too stylised, all the characters feel like poseurs' - that is absolutely it! I totally agree.

I thought you expressed yourself beautifully!

Abigail and Susan (P)---

Naa, naaa, naaa, not listening, not listening...

Variety is the spice of life, Barb!

Abigail wrote: "Variety is the spice of life, Barb!"

Well, of course it is!
But no reader likes to see one of their favorite characters described as a "poseur"! (sniff, sob!)

However, I do agree that Joshua Dimmock is the character who is closest to being a real human being--which makes the critical reader wonder how he slipped into a book full of characters straight from Hollywood's Central Casting!

I'm with Barb in Maryland: not listening! I got super busy this week and have only gotten to Sir Nick in prison. I will finish it this weekend. so suspenseful!

Jackie wrote: "LOL, Critterbee - I looked it up, since you mentioned it. I'm glad I did because I thought it meant "fear not" and it really means "matters not". Years I've been reading this book and not knowing t..."

I thought it meant more like 'fear not' as well, and the way he uses it
"The Inquisition? It doesn't matter"
amounts to about the same thing - he is so brave, who cares about the Inquisition? Well everyone should be afraid of the Inquisition, so maybe you really are mad!

All I hear whenever he says it is my Father teaching me to drive "Wreck not! Wreck not!"

Still enjoying it, love the combination of lazy but motivated to do horrible things to make her life better, completely amoral Beatrice.

She just cannot be bothered with anything other than what she wants! What made her into that? If Dominica had never met Beauvallet, would she have turned toward that? Being raised helpless, and with constant judgement about your actions, paired with reinforcement that you are better than most other people is a toxic combination.

LOL @ "wreck not".

I just finished it and, as always, enjoyed the Happy Ending. I think telling it from the POV of Joshua worked very well.

Donna Beatrice is an excellent villain while her son is contemptible. the best part of the book is Sir Nick's insouciance and everyone else's reaction to him. love the jailbreak!

there really isn't anything for our Heroine to do but be rescued and be fearless herself, or act as though she is. Merrily, Merrily!

I think next time I should listen to the audible version to hear all the slang.

I recently realized you can save quotes from a book when on Kindle and now use it to remind myself of things I liked, like the gentle fun made of Nick's sister in law and her poor health:

the hard winter – harder than any I remember, was it not, my lord? – tried me sorely. At the New Year I had the sweating-sickness. Then, at Candlemas, an ague seized me, and was like to have carried me off, methought.’ ‘But the spring comes, and you grow strong with it,’ suggested Nicholas. She looked doubtful. ‘Indeed, Nicholas, I trust it may be found so, but I have the frailest health, as you know.’

and, while Dominica is waiting for the household to go to sleep so Nick can climb up to her window, we have what I think is one of only two mentions of a bathroom in a Heyer, the other being in (view spoiler)[ A Civil Contract (hide spoiler)]

But Don Diego must needs go into his closet, and stay there for what seemed an interminable time to his impatient cousin. At length he came out, and went across the hall to his bedchamber.

Actually "reck" is closer to "heed" than anything else. Someone who's "reckless" can also be called "heedless", and the Shakespeare phrase from Hamlet "and recks not his own rede" means, "and doesn't take his own advice."

Margaret wrote: "Actually "reck" is closer to "heed" than anything else. Someone who's "reckless" can also be called "heedless", and the Shakespeare phrase from Hamlet "and recks not his own rede" means, "and doesn..."

Exactly! 'Reck Not' effectively means 'Be Reckless'!

Jackie wrote: "we have what I think is one of only two mentions of a bathroom in a Heyer, the other being in [ A Civil Contract (hide spoiler)]

But Don Diego must needs go into his closet, and stay there for what seemed an interminable time to his impatient cousin...."

I don't think a 'closet' means that in Elizabethan English - I think they would have said 'privy' if that's what was meant. And it wouldn't have been 'his' closet if it was, because they didn't have private facilities like that. I think a closet is any private room not actually a bedroom - like a study, or dressing room. The Oxford English Dictionary seems to agree.

well, heck, here I thought I knew what was going on! but, no.

Yes, a closet in Elizabethan times did not mean a toilet. As Jenny says, a privy is what would have been used. Toilet facilities at that time meant a chamber pot. In wealthy households, that may well have been housed in a closet but it wasn’t a WC as such plumbing didn’t arrive for another 300 years.

Susan in Perthshire wrote: "Yes, a closet in Elizabethan times did not mean a toilet. As Jenny says, a privy is what would have been used. Toilet facilities at that time meant a chamber pot. In wealthy households, that may we..."

True about the chamber pot--but in wealthier households it was enclosed in a piece of furniture known either as a 'close stool' or a 'commode'. (It was made to be sat upon, usually with a lid to close it off when not in use). That piece of furniture was usually in the bed chamber, but it could be in a smaller room.
Susan--I vaguely remember seeing such as room referred to as a 'close closet', but I can't track down a reference. Am I imagining that?

Barb in Maryland - yes indeed. Coincidentally, I was watching an episode of ‘Who do you think you are’ last night and it showed the very thing (as used by King Charles 1 at Hampton Court), made up with a velvet covered seat! A servant would of course open the door and remove the pot after he’d used it.

I finished it. I can't say it's a favorite, every time I put it down I felt there was a good chance I wouldn't pick it up again. For me this is the book where her attention to detail (including the Elizabethan language) drags everything down. However, it had its moments.

I tried to pick out my favorite scene--the most satisfying was probably the final meeting between Dona Beatrice and Nicholas.

Jackie wrote: "well, heck, here I thought I knew what was going on! but, no."

I do rather like the thought of Beauvallet's daring rescue being foiled - or at least held up - by Don Diego's constipation, though.

I liked it maybe some would say that that it is too stylized but it is Georgette Heyer after all so for me it was a nice escape and a pretty quick read and having read her biography I can sort of see her in the books and that is just how she is

Am I right in feeling we're all finding it a bit hard to say much about this book? Would it be fair to say there's not really enough in it for much of a discussion?

Maybe we are all more fluent discussing the regencies? This is such a different style to what we are used to, we cannot compare this to all her other swashbuckling adventures because there are not too many.

This story is a bunch of impossible situations thrown together, with a lot of chance for things to go wrong. A bit of a stressful read if you are immersed in the story.

I don’t think Heyer’s strengths lay in this kind of story. Other writers (SabatinI, Farnol, Orczy et al), did a much better job - whereas in her best books - she is the absolute mistress of her genre.

I much prefer her Georgian and Regency stories to her other historicals, or her crime novels.

I just don’t enjoy Beauvallet and cannot engage with the characters and nor do I feel she captures the era.

This story is a bunch of impossible situations thrown together, with a lot of chance for things to go wrong. A bit of a stressful read if you are immersed in the story.

yes, unlike Susan I did engage with the characters at least enough to feel afraid for Sir Nick, trapped in prison, just a whisker away from The Inquisition.

the plot is sort of ridiculous when there was really no valid reason for him to have left her in Spain. He clearly should have just dropped off her father and taken her home with him, but then the book would have been way too short.

I have been able to forget that and enjoy the story anyway, but I don't think I did the first couple reads.

I'm a fan of the book and enjoy re-reading it.
For me, it seems so cinematic--the book begs to be filmed! I have no trouble picturing Errol Flynn as Nick.
I also view it as an example of GH experimenting. The books she wrote in the 1920s were a very mixed bag! A few gems (These Old Shades, Masqueraders), but generally speaking, she was still polishing her craft, finding her comfort zone. The books we all think of as "GH books" date from the 1930s or later.

Barb in Maryland wrote: "I'm a fan of the book and enjoy re-reading it.
For me, it seems so cinematic--the book begs to be filmed! I have no trouble picturing Errol Flynn as Nick.
I also view it as an example of GH experi..."

Yes, I agree and I think that's why I don't like Beauvallet even whilst i can appreciate the good points in it. She was still finding her niche.

One of my favourites is 'These Old Shades.' It was only her third book and yet she demonstrated her mastery of the genre in it.

I don't think she had the gift of understanding other eras quite as well as she did the Georgian and Regency periods.

One thing that strikes me, that I think struck GH too after the event, because she fixes it in subsequent books, is how thoughtless it was of Beauvallet not to have brought any luggage for Domenica! He knew he was going to snatch her up and run, but leaves her to undertake the whole trip back, not to mention her wedding, in what she happened to be wearing at the time. She was lucky it wasn't her nightie!
In other books where there is an elopement or abduction, this matter is always addressed and either the gentleman provides new clothes or allows an opportunity for shopping or the lady herself, forewarned, makes provision.

See this is my first read and I was going to say I think she did a marvelous job with the research. The descriptions of the battle in the opening chapter was thrilling and I love the way she describes the costumes of the times.

Teresa wrote: "See this is my first read and I was going to say I think she did a marvelous job with the research. The descriptions of the battle in the opening chapter was thrilling and I love the way she descri..."

I think the opening is brilliant

In other books where there is an elopement or abduction, this matter is always addressed and either the gentleman provides new clothes or allows an opportunity for shopping or the lady herself, forewarned, makes provision.

I'd never noticed that before!

I've finished and I really, really liked it!! The opening chapter was fantastic, Nick's escape was brilliant and the rescue from the beach nerve racking! I can't believe I've never read this one before. I have the group to thank for getting to read a 'new to me' Heyer.

Teresa wrote: "I've finished and I really, really liked it!! The opening chapter was fantastic, Nick's escape was brilliant and the rescue from the beach nerve racking! I can't believe I've never read this one be..."

A fellow fan! Glad you liked it.

Loved it Barb!!

Teresa wrote: "Loved it Barb!!"

that's good! aren't the villains great? the Mother more than the son, of course.

She was unbelievable!!! I don't think she had any feelings of any description. I wanted to slap the son. I loved Joshua! Very funny character.

GH took her world building very seriously.

I own a very old edition with a family tree. It is really wide, so this is just part of it.

Oh wow! Carol. You lucky thing.

that's really something!