The Sword and Laser discussion

Everything Everywhere All At Once won the Best Picture Oscar last night, only the second Science Fiction film to ever do so. The Shape of Water won in 2017.

Lots of SF movies have been nominated, even Star Wars, but have never won. However, plenty of Fantasy films have won. I personally consider most musicals to be in the Fantasy genre, with exceptions for movies like Cabaret or Eddie and the Cruisers, where the music is contained to stages and such, as they would be in real life, so I’m including the ones which fit. If music coming from thin air and everyone immediately knowing the choreography isn’t supernatural behavior, I don’t know what is.

That said, the first truly uncontested Fantasy film to win Best Picture is Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King, and the only Epic Fantasy to be nominated, I think.

Fantasy films that have won Best Picture Oscar:

Hamlet - 1948
An American in Paris - 1951
Gigi - 1958
West Side Story - 1961
My Fair Lady - 1964
The Sound of Music - 1965
Oliver! - 1968
Chicago - 2002
The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King - 2003
Birdman - 2014


SFF films that have been nominated for Best Picture:

42nd Street - 1932
The Gay Divorcee - 1934
Broadway Melody of 1936 - 1935
A Midsummer Night's Dream - 1935
Top Hat - 1935
Lost Horizon - 1937
Alexander's Ragtime Band - 1938
The Wizard of Oz - 1939
Here Comes Mr. Jordan - 1941
Yankee Doodle Dandy - 1942
Heaven Can Wait - 1943
Anchors Aweigh - 1945
It’s A Wonderful Life - 1946
The Bishop’s Wife - 1947
Miracle on 34th Street - 1947
The Red Shoes - 1948
Seven Brides for Seven Brothers - 1954
The King and I - 1956
The Ten Commandments - 1956
The Music Man - 1962
Doctor Dolittle - 1967
Funny Girl - 1968
Hello, Dolly! - 1969
Fiddler on the Roof - 1971
A Clockwork Orange - 1971 -> FIRST SCIENCE FICTION FILM NOMINATED
The Exorcist - 1973 -> FIRST HORROR FILM NOMINATED
Star Wars - 1977
Heaven Can Wait - 1978
All That Jazz - 1979
Raiders of the Lost Ark - 1981
E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial - 1982
Field of Dreams - 1989
Ghost - 1990
Beauty and the Beast - 1991 -> FIRST ANIMATED FILM TO BE NOMINATED
Babe - 1995
The Green Mile - 1999
The Sixth Sense - 1999
Chocolat - 2000
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon - 2000
The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring - 2001
Moulin Rouge! - 2001
The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers - 2002
The Curious Case of Benjamin Button - 2008
Avatar - 2009
District 9 - 2009
Up - 2009
Inception - 2010
Toy Stiry 3 - 2010
Midnight in Paris - 2011
The Tree of Life - 2011
Gravity - 2013
Her - 2013
Mad Max: Fury Road - 2015
The Martian - 2015
Arrival - 2016
La La Land - 2016
Get Out - 2017
Black Panther - 2018 -> FIRST SUPERHERO MOVIE NOMINATED
Don’t Look Up - 2021
Dune - 2021
West Side Story - 2021
Avatar: The Way of Water

I see few movies these days, tbh mainly Cape stuff or at least genre, but not even all of those. Anyhoo, this one passed me by even with the fanservice cast. Seems like it's worth a watch tho.

Not a blockbuster with $74M domestic and $34M foreign, but the low-ish budget ($15-25M depending on who you believe) means it's a decent moneymaker. And the lower budget means name cast came on for less. They all believed in the project and won big.

It's very good, and also probably my favorite movie of last year as well. Based on your other interests John (Taloni), I think you will like it. Although I don't believe it is a movie everyone will like. While it is has action and sci fi elements, and has moments of levity, it is much more about the characters themselves and the dynamics between them. And it does it in a fairly cerebral way. So, in that way it is the type of movie that the Oscars voters tend to like.

Everything Everywhere was my favorite film of 2022. Plenty of action, plenty of heart. Great visuals, delightful sense of humor.

I said at the beginning of award season the best part of award season was that EEAAO returned to the theaters. So of course I went and saw it again.

My friend and I were in the underwhelmed camp for EEAAO. We thought it was OK but nothing special. I would have given it a 3 out of 5.

I can't judge Jamie Lee Curtis 'cause I haven't seen the movie yet, but Angela Bassett was brilliant in Black Panther 2. I kinda get why she was miffed.

John (Taloni) wrote: "I can't judge Jamie Lee Curtis 'cause I haven't seen the movie yet, but Angela Bassett was brilliant in Black Panther 2. I kinda get why she was miffed."

I thought Bassett was a shoo-in this year. Although I was rooting for EEAAO, I didn’t expect it to do as well as it did. Definitely thought John Williams and Steven Spielberg were going to clean up.

RRR should have won all the awards.

Tamahome wrote: "RRR should have won all the awards."

Best Use of Industrial Grade Hair Gel
Best Tiger Wrasslin’
Best Running With Flags
Best Use of Suspenders During a Dance Routine

I'm happy for all of the winners, but (unpopular opinion) Ana de Armas deserved an award for her Marilyn Monroe in Blonde.

Mark wrote: "Subterranean Press will publish a signed limited edition of recent S&L pick Nettle & Bone by T. Kingfisher

https://subterraneanpress.com/newsann......"
Aw now, demon chicken's a dealbreaker...

John (Taloni) wrote: "I can't judge Jamie Lee Curtis 'cause I haven't seen the movie yet, but Angela Bassett was brilliant in Black Panther 2. I kinda get why she was miffed."

Jamie Lee Curtis wasn't the best supporting actor in the movie. Stephanie Hsu was amazing and deserved a nomination (although co star may have been more accurate).

There is a good argument for best ensemble cast.

“The Ray Bradbury Prize for Science Fiction, Fantasy & Speculative Fiction went to Nicola Griffith for "Spear", her queer retelling of the Arthurian legend.”

Holy frijoles this is not a good book. First of all, the 10 millionth Camelot retelling, really? Second, it’s just extremely light on details - if you don’t bring your Biblical and Arthurian knowledge with you, you’ll have no idea what’s going on here because she never explains any of it. Doesn’t even allude to it. (I’d wager most people have no idea what the titular spear refers to.) Third, and worst of all, she undercuts any positive message that queering the character might have by making her ultimately subservient to all the straight men.

Maybe that was the message, I don’t know. But basically this book can be summed up as, “What if Brienne of Tarth was a knight of the Round Table?” That’s the whole thing.

Trike wrote: "“The Ray Bradbury Prize for Science Fiction, Fantasy & Speculative Fiction went to Nicola Griffith for "Spear", her queer retelling of the Arthurian legend.”

Holy frijoles this is not a good book...."

I ENTIRELY disagree. It was one of the best books I read last year. Don’t be afraid to read it.

Yeah, I thought it was fine, even if I'm sure I was a person who didn't pick up on much of the literary allusion in it. I figure if you liked Circe or The Witch's Heart or anything else in the recent spate of books about reimagining characters from myth in a more feminist-friendly lens, then you'll like this one too. I felt like it was definitely "of it's genre," but that it was a good example of that genre.

I don’t see how this can be considered feminist given how she ends up.

I have mixed feelings about the upcoming third season of The Witcher. I loved the first season but found the second season not as good. Now we know that, after this season, Henry Cavill is departing and being replaced by Liam Hemsworth. So on the one hand, I’m excited to see the new episodes, but on the other hand, I don’t like knowing that they are the last episodes with Cavill. He’s made the character of Geralt his own, at least so far as I’m concerned (I haven’t played the games) and I struggle to imagine Hemsworth being an adequate replacement. However good he is in the role, it’ll be really distracting having a totally different actor in the main role. I can’t help thinking it would have been better to simply wrap up the story in three seasons. Now I’ll have to choose between missing out on the conclusion of the story, and trying to get used to the new Geralt.

I couldn’t agree with you more. Henry Cavill is such a good Geralt and I just don’t see Hemsworth as matching him or even a strong, casting choice. Plus, you’re right the first season was just so great and the second wasn’t as strong. Fingers crossed for the third season.

Breakout discussion of the, well, Time War breakout, Biggus Dickus in all its variations, and whateva else tickles ya fancy, right heah.

I hope all the new readers enjoy This is How You Lose the Time War, personally I loved it! It’s weird how sometimes a thing like this happens and a book gets a new surge in popularity. I know nothing about the anime Mr Bigolas Dickolas Wolfwood is a fan of, so I have no idea if this book has an obvious appeal to fans of the series.

I just want to hear Tom & Veronica utter the words "Bigolas Dickolas" on the podcast... ;-)

If so, we already have our episode title!

And AI art.

Re: Nebula winners

Shame on tor.com for not linking to the official Nebula site:

https://nebulas.sfwa.org/winners-58th...

Babel: An Arcane History was the novel best winner. I read all the nominees, and strongly disagree. Babel was probably my least favorite; Spear would have been my winner. If that was judged too slight (it's barely a novel) or niche (King Arthur), I'm not sure what I would have picked... I really enjoyed all the rest of the nominees.

Looking forward to the Hugos next!

Geoff wrote: "Re: Nebula winners

Shame on tor.com for not linking to the official Nebula site:

https://nebulas.sfwa.org/winners-58th...

Babel: An Arcane History was the nove..."

For folks, like me, interested in seeing all the nominations in the categories this is the web page with that info on

https://nebulas.sfwa.org/award-year/2...

Moving this out of Quick Burns.

Anders wrote: "That said and I haven't seen the trailer, but if you've made a tv-series of a book and the first season covers the book and is concluded, should you make a season 2?"

If your name is Neil Gaiman or somebody else reliable, you should! So apparently before he died, Terry and Neil got together and plotted out a follow-up story but then never got around to writing it.

So why a Season 2? Neil explains, "Season 2 exists to get us from the end of the first book to the beginning of the second book that we plotted. If we get to make a Season 3, that is the book that Terry and I plotted in 1989."

I am a big fan of shows that are true to the original spirit of the books they are based on. I trust Neil knows what he's doing in that regard.

For those wondering how many posts they have here. This is the easiest way I’ve found to look at it. https://www.goodreads.com/group/4170-...

Ironically we were also having some fun discussing it behind Trikes back on discord as well. There are some surprises for me on the post counts.

John (Nevets) wrote: "For those wondering how many posts they have here. This is the easiest way I’ve found to look at it. https://www.goodreads.com/group/4170-...

Ironically w..."

OK, not only is that a lot of posts, but Trike has at least DOUBLED UP EVERY SINGLE MEMBER OF THE GROUP except for Rob and Tamahome, one of whom is a moderator.

That's a lot of computer time for Trike. I think the only viable explanation is that Trike is an AI. You may notice his name can be phonetically pronounced "Tricky."

And he's giving Martha Wells the hard-sell on discord at the minute.
Has anyone seen Trike and Murderbot in the same room at the same time?

You better be careful what you say.

If Trike is ART's brother / sister / kin you wanna play nicey nicey :-D

It's been ten days since Trike posted his ten-thousandth comment. Will he ever comment again? Has anyone started a pool to pick the day and category of Trike post #10001?

Mark wrote: "It's been ten days since Trike posted his ten-thousandth comment. Will he ever comment again? Has anyone started a pool to pick the day and category of Trike post #10001?"

If I have told you before - don't provoke the Borg :-D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttXbh...

Mark wrote: "It's been ten days since Trike posted his ten-thousandth comment. Will he ever comment again? Has anyone started a pool to pick the day and category of Trike post #10001?"

He's trying to let Rob and Tamahome catch up.

I now need only 9,364 more comments to catch Trike. Oops. 9,363.

I didn't even make it onto the first page of the list! I feel like such an amateur.

That story about Cait Corrain posting shitty reviews of her rival authors is totally bonkers. The author was all set to have a great debut next year, lots of support from the publisher and the book featured in Illumicrate (which for those unfamiliar is a Big Deal - it gets a fancy edition of your book out to thousands of people who splash it all over Instagram and TikTok) and she's just... torched her entire career before it's even begun with some of the dumbest behaviour I've ever seen. I especially like the part where she tried to blame Star Wars fans, which did not work out the way she was hoping.
Amazing.

It’s practically textbook behavior for a narcissistic sociopath. If you’re utterly baffled, congratulations! You’re a normal person.

I just read the Gizmodo story, and while it mentioned that a group had gathered evidence it didn’t dig too deep into it. Are we sure it was her, and not someone close to her doing it unbeknownst to her, and whom she is now protecting? Not that it would make it much better, but I’ve known people on the autistic spectrum that might do something like that, not realizing what it was really doing.

Ok, the other article digs way more into the details. And while I guess her covering for someone else is still a small possibility, it does sound like that is not the case.

John (Nevets) wrote: "I just read the Gizmodo story, and while it mentioned that a group had gathered evidence it didn’t dig too deep into it. Are we sure it was her, and not someone close to her doing it unbeknownst to..."

There was apparently someone called 'Lilly' who appeared in some doctored screencaps and was supposedly the real culprit. She was apparently an over-zealous fan of Reylo (the romantic pairing of Rey and Kylo Ren from the Star Wars sequels). Corrain was unable to provide any other evidence for the existence of this person and members of the Reylo fandom have come forward to say they've never heard of her. So... it's *possible* this is a real person whom Corrain is protecting, but it doesn't seem very likely. I think if 'Lilly' was a real person they'd have come forward by now.

Trike wrote: "It’s practically textbook behavior for a narcissistic sociopath. If you’re utterly baffled, congratulations! You’re a normal person."

Thanks Ruth and Trike for sharing and commenting on that - I have been down the proverbial rabbit hole for the last 45 minutes and I am indeed thoroughly baffled.

There’s no one named Lilly; that was just another fabrication.

As more evidence for the “bad people are dumb” file, the screenshots Corrain provided as evidence were clearly stitched together and had wildly varying timestamps, with responses dated before the questions. There were also screengrabs of comments which had nothing to do with this and were posted weeks or months earlier. I mean, people would’ve checked regardless, but she didn’t even bother to hide the dates. It was an embarrassingly amateur attempt at a snowjob.

While what she did was bad, and I'm glad it was both found out, and dealt with. I hope she is able to get some psychiatric help, it sounds like she really needs it. And if she is not emotionally stable, I hope this doesn't push her to do harm to either herself or others. This is a pretty drastic set of events that happened in a short time, it would be tough to deal with if you did have it together, but if you didn't it could really be devastating.

Eh, in my experience (which I hope you never have, they make you question your own sanity) these people don’t get down by being found out or having their world implode. The delusion is baked into every cell of their body. See: George Santos and Donald Trump as the two most prominent examples currently.

Ruth wrote: "Murderbot is coming to Apple TV:

https://deadline.com/2023/12/alexande...

Starring Alexander Skarsgard, whom vampire fans will rememb..."

I don’t know if I’m on board with this. I’ve mostly pictured Murderbot as female-leaning, more of a Gwendolyn Christie (Brienne of Tarth from Game of Thrones, Captain Phasma from Star Wars) than a male actor.

I think they’ll have to do voice-over narration, which can work but is usually a fine line to walk and goes wrong pretty easily.

I've also pictured Murderbot as (mostly) female, maybe five foot seven, slender, easy to underestimate and you are in for a world of hurt if you do.

Anyway, I'm glad that Martha Wells is making money here. That is not the same as feeling I have to watch the result. Maybe try one and see how it goes.

It occurs to me that the Murderbot TV watchers and the readers may be two distinct groups. If she gets a TV audience dedicated to TV tropes, and still makes money and satisfies two distinct groups of fans, more power to her.

Trike wrote: "I’ve mostly pictured Murderbot as female-leaning."

Alexander Skarsgård (The one in the middle) 😉

Ye cats, that’s so much worse.

Now I'm randomly wondering if Trike free associated from "Ye Gods" to "Ye Dogs" and then "Ye Cats."

...and speaking of, I'm pretty sure Trike would be a better Murderbot than Alexander Skarsgard. If anything, Skarsgard is the anti-Murderbot. He is the antithesis of Murderbot. The Tobredrum.

I too always pictured Murderbot as more female, perhaps something like Sofia Boutella. Nothing against Skarsgard but he’s not how I imagined it at all!