The Sword and Laser discussion

I had wished the Murderbot series would have used some of the animation styles used in the Netflix's Love Death & Robots.

Murderbot sounds boyish on Graphicaudio. https://www.graphicaudio.net/the-murd...

I never gave Murderbot a gender. "Bot" = neuter, no? (But not in a passive sense!)

Trike wrote: "Ruth wrote: "Murderbot is coming to Apple TV:

https://deadline.com/2023/12/alexande...

...I think they’ll have to do voice-over narration, which can work but is usually a fine line to walk and goes wrong pretty easily.
"

I didn't really picture Murderbot as a Viking-looking dude either, but sometimes actors can act - maybe it will work. This internal dialogue is the part I don't know about. LIke is Sanctuary Moon going to be playing on half the screen while Murderbot is talking to people? Is there going to be a freeze or extreme slow-motion so Murderbot can say "oh crap, not my best idea" all the time? In the books my brain buys that there can simultaneously be action and introspection, but I'm not sure if that can work in a TV show.

Ruth wrote: "I too always pictured Murderbot as more female, perhaps something like Sofia Boutella. Nothing against Skarsgard but he’s not how I imagined it at all!"

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Hitch your t**s and pucker up, it's time to peel the paint!

Joseph wrote: "Ruth wrote: "I too always pictured Murderbot as more female, perhaps something like Sofia Boutella. Nothing against Skarsgard but he’s not how I imagined it at all!"

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter."

I don’t know what percentage of this is serious and what percentage is kidding, but on the off chance that you’re more than 0.1% serious have a link to my author website where you can read my further ideas and even subscribe to my newsletter
https://hesperleveret.com/

For me, I think there's really only one choice for Murderbot

Rebel has lost almost 40kg (80 lb) since that photo.

Really, guy? Is it funny because she's large in this picture? I sat out the grumpy "nothing good's been written after 1960" discussion because, well, life's too short for that argument and while I feel a bit bad that some tastes are so specific it's not my problem. But posts like this are why I dropped this group for a while and it may be time to do it again. There's been a lot of gatekeeping posts here recently about what "real" science fiction is and now with the misogyny and mockery of those who don't fit your standards of attractiveness. A very bad look, much more so than that picture you thought would be amusing.

Jacqie wrote: "Really, guy? Is it funny because she's large in this picture? I sat out the grumpy "nothing good's been written after 1960" discussion because, well, life's too short for that argument and while I ..."

What is this referencing? Something on Discord?

Jacqie wrote: "Really, guy? Is it funny because she's large in this picture?..."

I think it's funny because she makes me laugh my ass off. Why is it any of your business? Don't pick fights.

Sigh. I'm going to chime in, at the risk of keeping a bad situation going. I'm doing this because a newcomer to our site feels unwelcome and I think her concerns are justified. I want noobs, freshers, whatever, to feel welcome. They are the lifeblood of the board and also help build the S&L listenership, and isn't that what we're here for?

I also took the above to be a fat joke. I rolled my eyes and moved on. Others seemed to take it the same way and moved to defuse the situation. That's in the best tradition of the board.

Speaking only for myself, I've been put off by authors doing fat jokes. One I followed on Twitter engaged in a "funny" exchange with another author that fat people would be skinny if they just didn't eat pies. Ha! Ha! Ha! I unfollowed and decided to spend my fat-earned dollars elsewhere.

So yep, me too, I've taken exception to this kind of humor. If it wasn't intended that way, perhaps a gentler response would help from the OP.

John (Taloni) wrote: "Sigh. I'm going to chime in, at the risk of keeping a bad situation going. I'm doing this because a newcomer to our site feels unwelcome and I think her concerns are justified. I want noobs, freshe..."

I appreciate that. I'm not a noob, but a lurker. And have been reading the genre for the past 45 years if you'd like my bonafides. The reason it's my business is that the OP posted this in a public forum that many people see. I hope that this "humor" isn't okay with most people who visit here but felt in this instance that silence was complicity.

It didn’t occur to me that the original photo of Rebel Wilson was fat-shaming. The subsequent posts could be read as such, I suppose, but knowing their posting history I was giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Many of my family and friends are obese, which doesn’t affect my opinion of them at all — in fact, my late cousin Janet who was one of my very best friends in the world struggled with her weight her entire life — so this isn’t a thing for me, but I can see how it would be problematic for others. It didn’t strike me as such, not the way TV shows like Friends or movies like Love Actually and Shallow Hal are offensively body shaming.

Ultimately I can’t know what the intent was, of course.

Trike wrote: "It didn’t occur to me that the original photo of Rebel Wilson was fat-shaming. The subsequent posts could be read as such, I suppose, but knowing their posting history I was giving them the benefit..."

Appreciate your thoughts, Trike. I love the previews you post!

Just as an aside to the way the conversation is going, are there any SFF books with plus-sized protagonists? I can think of a few, Dune is the maybe the worst, where the fatness of Harkonnen is used as short-hand for him being bad. There are often big dudes - but even when they eat a lot they're usually muscled too, or formerly muscled. Even our current book has a fat guy (Matrick) which serves mostly as authorial shorthand for a guy who's past his prime. Maybe we've had this conversation before? Sorry if so.

The one that springs to mind is Saladin Ahmed's Throne of the Crescent Moon, whose protagonist, Doctor Adoulla Makhslood, is old, fat and crotchety and why can I relate to that?

The cop Shi Qiang in Three Body Problem (he was skinny in the chinese tv show). The "fanboy" Troblum in Peter F. Hamilton's Void series. I keep thinking of the old Cannon detective tv show. Intro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRo7P... New thread?

Yeah, I also was surprised they went with such a huge-dude type of actor. I really like him, but he strikes me as more of a Terminator than a Murderbot. Glad to see so many people agree.
Personally, I saw Murderbot as having more of a Natalie Portman vibe.
The way the crew in All Systems Red seemed surprised when they saw Murderbot's face made me think it wouldn't be a bulky guy. Natalie Portman has an unassuming face that's also capable of expressing that she could murder a few dozen folks and not be bothered by it. Not sure why I get that vibe, but some things are just inexplicable.

Jacqie wrote: "...The reason it's my business is that the OP posted this in a public forum that many people see. I hope that this "humor" isn't okay with most people who visit here but felt in this instance that silence was complicity."

Since there seem to be more people here who aren't sure about the intent of my post, let me clarify.

I'll be perfectly clear: I didn't intend my post to be "fat-shaming" and to the best of my knowledge I have never fat-shamed someone, online or in person. Generally I don't comment on people's weight because I believe it's impolite.

As I said before, I think Rebel Wilson is funny. I haven't seen her in anything since Pitch Perfect 3 which was prior to her weight loss if my subsequent internet research is accurate. I looked for a picture of Rebel as I know her and I posted it. If Rebel wanted to lose weight then I think that's great. I liked her just fine the was she was.

I've read the first Murderbot book. It was OK. I'll read more eventually. I thought Rebel would be a good fit since she has the sarcasm to pull of the attitude of the character. But I notice that the marketing for subsequent installments in the series has shied away from the "snark" word, so maybe they are going for a more serious tone. Again, I don't know because I haven't read them. I thought of Murderbot as female and for some reason I always associated Rebel Wilson with her, maybe from watching the Pitch Perfect films with my daughter around the same time.

I hope that settles things. If the moderators ask me to, I will be happy to remove the post. It was not my intent to offend anyone.

But now, let's talk about the rest of your post, Jacqie. I'm especially interested to understand what you meant by this:

I sat out the grumpy "nothing good's been written after 1960" discussion...

It sounds like you're referring to something I posted in the What Are You Currently Reading thread earlier this month. My original post was: "Sounds good to me. TBH I'd like to see us read more classic SF. This group leans pretty hard into the newer stuff." That was AFTER moderator Tassie Dave said he'd like to see Way Station - which I am currently reading - be a monthly S&L pick. I never said nothing good was written after the 1960s. In fact, many of my favorite Sci-Fi reads were written after the 1960s. So where did you come up with that?

And who was grumpy in the discussion? Me? Tassie Dave? Trike? Geoff? Clyde? Phil? John Taloni? Mark? Oaken? Ruth? Those are the people who participated in the discussion. Please let us all know which posts were "grumpy" and who said "nothing good's been written after 1960." Because the only person I hear saying that is you. Just like the words "she's large in this picture." Not said by me; said by you.

To be honest, it sounds a little like you were already upset when I posted the Rebel Wilson picture, and then you decided to intentionally misinterpret my post and paint me out to be a terrible person. Like this comment: "...now with the misogyny and mockery of those who don't fit your standards of attractiveness. A very bad look, much more so than that picture you thought would be amusing." Now I'm a misogynist too?

You don't know me at all. I raised an amazing daughter by myself, with no help from her alcoholic abusive mother, and now my daughter is a fully-scholarshipped Division 1 college athlete who currently ranks in the top 200 basketball players in all of the NCAA statistically. Oh yeah, she graduated high school with high honors and currently has straight As. With my own funds a few years ago, I started a non-profit basketball club for high school girls so I could help some of my daughter's economically disadvantaged teammates and friends get exposure so they could continue their basketball careers in college. The starting five players from my daughter's high school - all of whom played for my club - were able to play in college. All of them. First time in school history it happened, maybe in our entire league. And you think I'm a misogynist? You are delusional.

Ordinarily I wouldn't even stoop to responding to your post, but the moderators in this group don't really stop people from calling other members "grumpy" or a "misogynist." So let me add that hypersensitivity along with twisting other people's words and intent are a sign of possible Borderline Personality Disorder. Get help.

I've already blocked you because I don't need or want negative people like you in my life. Don't respond to any more of my posts, for any reason.

I didn't find your post of an older picture of Rebel as fat shaming.

I assumed you like her as a comedic actor. Which I do to. Even though she made the joke about being "the best singer in Tasmania, with teeth." in "Pitch Perfect". 😉

I only posted a more recent picture as she has been having a few major life changing events in the past few years. Losing weight, coming out, finding a new partner, having a baby (through surrogacy) and generally becoming a more happy Rebel.

My favourite Rebel role was in "Jojo Rabbit". A movie I can't recommend highly enough.

I don't know whether she'd be a good fit for Murderbot. But it would be fun to see her try.

Tassie Dave wrote: "...My favourite Rebel role was in "Jojo Rabbit". A movie I can't recommend highly enough.

I don't know whether she'd be a good fit for Murderbot. But it would be fun to see her try."

Thanks, Dave. I haven't seen Jojo Rabbit, but I've heard it's good. I think the first time I remember seeing Rebel was way back in Bridesmaids ("Free Tattoo!" lol) and then the Pitch Perfect films. I looked at her Wikipedia bio and saw she's done voice work on a couple animated films I think I've seen, one of the Ice Age films and I can't remember the other one, but I don't know if I realized that when I watched them.

Oaken wrote: "Dubious in that it includes such "classics" as Arnold Schwarzenegger's "The Running Man" (I mean, really?) and ranks innovative films such as "District 9" well behind 70s schlock such as "Rollerball.""

Whoa whoa whoa… hold up there, friend. “Schlock” and “Rollerball” do not go together. That movie is a certified classic, and its prescience in both the broad strokes and in some specific details is impressive. Like the moment the librarian informs Jonathan that an entire century (12th?) was accidentally deleted from the computer banks. You can directly link that to any number of similar things happening today, from internet censorship to corporations deleting stuff from their streaming services. Almost nobody was talking about how companies don’t care about the players, sacrificing them for the bottom line - it was basically just Rollerball and North Dallas Forty, and I feel like I’m the only one who remembers that second film.

Regarding Trike's post in Quick Burns:

Trike wrote: "Adam Sandler, not an introvert, in not a comedy."

...I really enjoyed Bill Murray's performance in Razor's Edge. IIRC that movie was one of Murray's conditions for appearing in Ghostbusters. Anyhoo, maybe Sandler will be good.

In these situations it's nice to have aphantasia ...

John (Taloni) wrote: "Regarding Trike's post in Quick Burns:

Trike wrote: "Adam Sandler, not an introvert, in not a comedy."

...I really enjoyed Bill Murray's performance in Razor's Edge. IIRC that movie was one of Mu..."

Gah! You scared me! I thought I posted a trailer in the wrong thread.

Re: Seth's post on the NYTimes The Top 100 Books of the 21st Century

The 100 greatest books of the century (so far, according to the NYTimes), and not much in the way of sci-fi or fantasy.

There are a few more books than mentioned that are sci-fi/fantasy:

Getting a lot of recognition all the way up at #9 is "Never Let Me Go" by Kazuo Ishiguro. It explores a future world where people are cloned with the express purpose of providing transplant organs for their wealthy DNA providers. It was made into a movie starring Andrew Garfield and Kiera Knightley. Ishiguro has written at least one other SF book (Klara and the Sun) and one fantasy book (The Buried Giant.)

#13 The Road by Cormac McCarthy, a post apocalyptic masterpiece, made into a movie starring Viggo Mortenson.

#18 Lincoln in the Bardo by George Saunders is about the death of Abraham Lincoln's son shortly after the end of the civil war. The bulk of the novel takes place among the denizens of the graveyard where he is buried.

#28 Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell, made into a film starring Tom Hanks and Halle Berry.

#85 Pastoriali, also by George Saunders, is a book of short stories, many with sf&f-type themes.

The problem, of course, is that many people in the industry don't seem to think that a book can be both literary and science fiction or fantasy at the same time so these get marketed in one category or the other. Considering the number of genres though - and the fact that it includes a lot of non-fiction books - 8 out of 100 being sf&f doesn't seem that bad. And I may have missed some.

Thanks for taking a closer look at that Oaken. I was debating starting a thread about the list to dig into it a bit. Are there any notable SFF snubs?

Among recent SFF award winners that read a bit 'literary' are American Gods by Gaiman, Among Others by Jo Walton and Babel by RF Kuang. Any of those have good cases to get in?

“This is how you lose the Time War” seemed literary enough and experimental enough and popular enough I think it might qualify as a snub. Maybe too experimental.

Interestingly Marlon James’ “A Brief History of Seven Killings” (loosely based on incidents tied to Bob Marley) made the list but “Black Leopard, Red Wolf”, which we read, did not.

China Mieville would be one I would consider. I think Perdido Street Station was 21st century.

I loved American Gods but I’m not sure it would have met the sort of criteria I see in this list. Of his works I would have nominated The Ocean at the End of the Lane.

Fourth Wing maybe.

I kid. I kid.

Oaken wrote: "“This is how you lose the Time War” seemed literary enough and experimental enough and popular enough I think it might qualify as a snub."

So, I did think of this one for a second, but I think even when it's done really well, and when it's actually a subtle and interesting book, having a "high-concept" sci-fi book makes it almost too easy to ignore, at least when it comes to critical snobbery. Just because you could say 'time-travelling star-crossed lovers on opposite sides of a galactic war' doesn't make the book bad, but it's easy to boil down genre books to their hooks and ignore their substance. I put things like Ancillary Justice or A Memory Called Empire in the same camp - when the plot hangs on a technology it seems like it's too easy to dismiss. Probably I'm over-thinking something here?

It seems to me that it's just as easy to boil down lots of other books from the list into similar statements - "two young friends grow up in Naples as their city and world change around them" - but when the hook is people/family/love/relationships it gets a pass because everyone knows that people are complex. Sometimes critics seem to forget that SFF is mostly about people and their complexities too.

It's always a challenge for authors who get the "genre" label stuck to their books to get recognized by the literary establishment, unfortunately. Oaken rightly points out the literary authors whose books are clearly SFF, but because of their literary credentials, booksellers will probably never put Cormac McCarthy or Kazuo Ishiguro in the SFF corner of their bookshop.
So for works that should be in the Top 100 books of the 21st Century, I think Susanna Clarke's Piranesi, a Kim Stanley Robinson book, and R.F. Kuang's Babel should have been serious contenders. I think the fact that they've made their reputation in the genre world makes it almost impossible for their literary skills to be recognized outside of that realm, unfortunately.

But then, that's kind of what makes our community so special! We have our own fantastic writers that the outside world knows little about but that we get to cherish.

Also, I don't think there's any children's or YA, and that was probably an editorial choice, but I almost feel like Harry Potter (4-7) should have had honourable mention since they quite literally shaped the future of writing middle grade and YA fiction, and influenced a generation of readers and writers.

Seth wrote: "Sometimes critics seem to forget that SFF is mostly about people and their complexities too...."

I don't think that it is ("mostly about people...") Not to say that characters aren't important in any novel but my pov is that SF&F tends more toward plot-driven, world-rich stories (setting up and resolving the plot in an interesting setting.) Literary fiction tends more toward writing and character doorways (following a character as they meander through life.) And since it is the NY Times you know they are focused on literary fiction. I think that is what tends to disqualify books like Ancillary Justice in spite of fascinating characters (the plot being about unraveling the mystery of who destroyed her ship-world and why.)

On the other hand, you don't find (m)any plot-driven or world-building stories in literary circles. Classics like The Great Gatsby or A Farewell to Arms. Modern literary books like Prophet Song. The characters just sort of live their lives and the world moves around them and they react to it but they don't drive it. Along those lines, while I still think they are SF&F, I'm not sure Ishiguro or McCarthy or even George Saunders would fare well with many SF&F fans because of the focus on the writing and character doorways.

I recognize that I am generalizing. When we talk about doorways it is clear that there are some character-driven books in SF&F (e.g., A Psalm for the Wild Built.) And there are readers who love that doorway. But I think they are less common.

I also use words such as "like" and "tend" because obviously 100% of generalizations - including this sentence - are false. And none of this is meant to be a slight of plot- or world-building doorways. I will add that I see some people get upset when a literary writer tries to dodge an accompanying SF&F label. I understand that it seems like a slight to SF&F readers but I do think the books that call themselves literary fiction are different than ones that aim toward being genre fiction. Even if they cover similar types of stories. One isn't better than the other, but in broad strokes they aren't the same.

SFF vs litfic snobbery drives me crazy. I’m someone who loves the imaginative worlds of speculative fiction, but my doorways are definitely writing and characters - if a book is badly written I can’t read it no matter how cool the world building is. As a consequence I find my reading straddles the litfic/SFF divide and I see snobbery and ignorance from both sides.

Mmmm...I kinda feel like the litfic peeps picked the fight. But, perhaps I'm exactly who you mean with "both sides!" Because Kurt Vonnegut always set off my "snob" meter as he mocked the very field he wrote in. I never considered him an SFF writer, not like Niven, McCaffrey, Heinlein, Asimov...Bradbury wrote Lit style but was never a snob. I still remember how he wrote an intro to a Perry Rhodan book for Forrest J Ackerman. Guy would go anywhere! He's the model.

And as for current day, Station Eleven so annoyed me I won't read anything else by...whatever her name is. A tourist in SFF, using well worn tropes and pretending she discovered something new. But hey! She included a Shakespeare troupe. It must be good! *hurls*

(offered for gleeful discussion without rancor)

On a different topic, I’m intrigued by the latest Hugo shenanigans… who do we think is the mysterious “Finalist A”?

Its an interesting question because 377 memberships would cost - are they $50 each? - almost $20K. Would you see enough of a boost in sales to make it worthwhile to spend $20K to get onto the shortlist? I guess if you were well-off it might be worth it for bragging rights.

Oaken wrote: "Its an interesting question because 377 memberships would cost - are they $50 each? - almost $20K. Would you see enough of a boost in sales to make it worthwhile to spend $20K to get onto the short..."

Yeah, I find it difficult to imagine that even winning a best-novel Hugo would generate enough additional sales to justify spending $20k on stuffing the ballot box. Which leads to the question… what’s the motivation here? Bragging rights? Politics? Something else?

Oaken wrote: "Its an interesting question because 377 memberships would cost - are they $50 each? - almost $20K. Would you see enough of a boost in sales to make it worthwhile to spend $20K to get onto the short..."

This was my biggest wry chuckle. I cannot put myself in the shoes of someone who has 20 grand and cares so little about it that they would sign up as:

John Alf Bacon
John Balf Bacon
John Calf Bacon
John Dalf Bacon
etc.

OR, maybe even better as:

Uno Dos Tres
Un Deux Trois
Eins Zwei Drei
etc.

Just open a phone book.

Also, of course Finalist A is Scalzi. He hasn't been mentioned on the show in almost a month and his motivation is just to get back into the Sword and Laser mentions.

Given the success of his kickstarter, maybe it is Brandon Sanderson. Unlike 99% of other authors, his money don't jiggle jiggle, it folds. Prolly spends $20K a week on technology and blow.

According to the Glasgow 2024 statement there's no evidence Finalist A knew what was going on. So, it could be a crazy fan or a group of people trying to sway the results.

Oaken wrote: "Given the success of his kickstarter, maybe it is Brandon Sanderson. Unlike 99% of other authors, his money don't jiggle jiggle, it folds. Prolly spends $20K a week on technology and blow."
🤣🤣🤣 I love the idea of Brandon Sanderson being a coke-addled, money-flaunting DBag. It's like the SFF version of Michael Cera in This Is The End.
Unfortunately, not only is he a Mormon, and therefore unlikely to have an active cocaine habit (no offense to any blow-loving Mormons reading this), but he is also not nominated for any awards this year, and Finalist A is a nominee.

I second the belief that Finalist A is John Scalzi, my reasoning being that some next-gen Sad Puppy (or Puppies) with too much money wanted to see a white guy win the Hugo.
After all, we live in an age where wealthy white men with every advantage feel like they're in danger for some reason, and so they throw money at all kinds of crazy stupid stuff (I'm looking at you, Elon).

Paul wrote: "Oaken wrote: "Given the success of his kickstarter, maybe it is Brandon Sanderson. Unlike 99% of other authors, his money don't jiggle jiggle, it folds. Prolly spends $20K a week on technology and ..."

^^ if Brando Sando is a coke-addled d-bag he’s certainly managed to hide it well so far!

I can see the logic behind your thoughts re Scalzi, although I thought the Sad Puppies hated him too because he’s vocally liberal? Maybe they figure at least he’s a white guy whose book is about a white guy?

Re: SFF and literary fiction. I’m interested to see the reactions to the August pick. It spans both; definitely a “writing door” but also plot driven. I loved it.

Ruth wrote: "I can see the logic behind your thoughts re Scalzi, although I thought the Sad Puppies hated him too because he’s vocally liberal? Maybe they figure at least he’s a white guy whose book is about a white guy?"

Other than Adrian Tchaikovsky, Scalzi is one of the few white guys nominated for a Hugo this year. Neither of those guys is going to be okay with Neo Puppies shenanigans, and they know that.

My bet is that is was one the Chinese authors. This is the kind of crooked but dumb thing Chinese fans pull all the time, we just don’t hear about it much here. Obsessed and toxic Star Wars fans ain’t got nothin’ on the Chinese. The debacle of the 2023 Hugos pretty much laid it bare for all in the West to see for the first time.

https://journal.transformativeworks.o...

Fan leaders’ control on Xiao Zhan's Chinese fan community

Xueyin Wu

Guangzhou, China - 2021

[0.1] Abstract—Fans of Chinese media celebrity Xiao Zhan provide a case study of the existence of a highly centralized, well-trained fan community in Chinese media fandom, in which a majority of the fans are controlled and exploited by a faction of fan leaders. Fans have strong, exclusive feelings regarding their idol. Fan leaders make use of these feelings in order to organize the fans to routinize a wide range of data-manuipulation activities to ensure the success of their idols, and in so doing, these fans' actions exhibit conformity rather than autonomy. By controlling the dissemination of information within the community, fan leaders cultivate individual fans to ensure that they engage in a series of activities that support their idols.

https://www.pinkvilla.com/entertainme...

EXO not receiving the award in 2017; what really happened

In 2023, YinYueTai, one of China's largest music video platforms, issued an apology to EXO fans via their Weibo account for the mistreatment EXO endured during the V Chart awards ceremony in 2017. During that event, organizers implemented rules requiring fans to pay to vote for their favorite artists. EXO-L (EXO's fandom) invested significant amounts, up to 200,000 yuan (approximately 37 million won), to vote for EXO as the Most Popular Singer. However, fans were left shocked when the award went to the girl group ATF, and EXO didn't even make it into the top 5.
…
They further explained that throughout the voting period, EXO consistently led in the Most Popular Singer category. However, in the final moments, several accounts allegedly representing a girl group made significant payments, totaling up to hundreds of thousands, and altered the chart's outcome. They clarified that due to YinYueTai's incompetent system, the situation spiraled beyond their control.

https://www.scmp.com/news/people-cult...

Why is China’s celebrity-obsessed fan culture so out-of-control? (2021)

In May Chinese reality show Youth with You was shut down after it was caught manipulating fans into buying products made by the show’s sponsors. Viewers who had bought a particular kind of yoghurt made by one sponsor began to post videos of boxes of the yoghurt being thrown away. The viewers had bought the yoghurt as a condition for voting for contestants on the show, sparking a public outcry amid China’s anti-waste crackdown and again raising questions about the extreme fan culture and the impact on China’s youth.

Trike wrote: "'Viewers who had bought a particular kind of yoghurt made by one sponsor began to post videos of boxes of the yoghurt being thrown away. The viewers had bought the yoghurt as a condition for voting for contestants on the show, sparking a public outcry amid China’s anti-waste crackdown...'"
Sounds like a far less appetizing version of the Golden Ticket in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (/Willy Wonka). I can just imagine checking in on your teenage kid's room, finding boxes of expired yogurt and thinking "I do not understand this generation," before gagging.

But in spite of this compelling argument, it begs the question of whether any of the Chinese SFF authors have the same kind of celeb-power as national popstars, which I kind of doubt. Also, it's worth noting that while these examples do hold similarities to this situation, having fans spend money and act unilaterally is not a China-specific phenomenon.
Everyone's favourite Mormon coke-head, Brando Sando, famously generated the biggest Kickstarter in history, so there's an example of SFF fans pooling their money. Swiftees and Beyonce fans have been known to coordinate doxxing attacks or create social media movements. Bieber fans in Brazil dominated Twitter hashtags so much that Twitter had to reprogram how hashtags worked. And while getting young people to bulk order yogurt is pretty weird, I think getting young people to eat tide pods, drink bleach, and harrass public health workers is all weirder, and that's American-grown craziness.
And lets keep in mind that while Chinese SFF fans did seem to act in a coordinated way to get the Hugos to be hosted in China, all evidence of vote manipulation from the 2023 Hugo debacle seemed to stem from white gate-holders tampering with votes and manipulating ballots.

Note: I do not actually believe that Brandon Sanderson uses cocaine.

Hm, this discussion makes me wonder. Chinese fans may be just as rabid, but with the relative wealth between China and the first world, $60 may have been too much. Could have been the CCP deciding to level the playing field. Okay, the chance for this being real gets more and more slim the further you take it, but if it were true, the better way would have been to above-board sponsor "scholarships" for fans. Not that the thugocracy known as the CCP would even conceive of that level of subtlety.