Reading the 20th Century discussion

A buddy read of Celia Fremlin's fifth novel, The Jealous One has been suggested by one of our members, Brian. Great suggestion, seconded by Jill and myself, and I am always happy to read more by Fremlin.

The Jealous One (1964), Celia Fremlin's fifth novel, opens on its protagonist Rosamund as she wakes from a mid-morning nap to find, to her delight, that she is running a temperature. Surely that explains her blinding headache, and even the weird, delirious dream in which she had murdered her overly seductive neighbour, Lindy? A great relief, then, to find this was merely the work of a fevered imagination. Until her husband exclaims, 'Rosamund! Have you any idea what's happened to Lindy? She's disappeared!...'

Please join us in February 2022.

I am about halfway through this and absolutely loving it. Is anybody else planning to read it next month?

I'll be picking it up from the library today or tomorrow, Susan - looking forward to it all the more after hearing your enthusiasm.

That's great, Judy. I have read four of her now, although, admittedly, one was short stories, but have loved them all.

Me! (Can't believe it's almost February already)

Susan wrote: "I am about halfway through this and absolutely loving it. Is anybody else planning to read it next month?"


I am v keen but have not been able to find a reasonably priced copy or a copy in the library

I may yet just splash out on it but, as I have so many books I already own waiting to be read, I feel a bit conflicted

It's inevitably going to be wonderful so don't be surprised to see me diving in soon

We will try to entice you to join, Nigeyb!

Although this is quite a short book, Fremlin has done an excellent job in building the atmosphere for this story. The carefree woman, slowly wheedling her way in the life of a happy couple living next door. Questioning their relationship, and sowing doubts in the mind of the married woman. Slowly taking over their family life. The husband flattered, believing the wife was as happy as he was about the neighbour, and then the final twist.
Fremlin has become one of my favourite authors, as everything I have read from her has been excellent.

I'm just writing this so I'll get notices of the comments.
Susan and Jill's general comments have me really looking forward to The Jealous One, which I'll proabably start in about 10 days.

I am about three quarters of the way through now. Really engrossed and keen to find out what happens.

I've cracked - and ordered a copy

Hurrah!

I have finished this now - absolutely loved it.

I'm about 30% in - that Lindy, huh! Really enjoying this :)

Yes, that Lindy! I really like the way Celia Fremlin made the everyday somewhat sinister. Her plots are very domestic, which is, maybe, why she was out of favour for so long?

I'm about 20% in. It's excellently done, but I'm not sure it's really my thing. I'll persist, though - Fremlin writes very well.

Fair enough, Sid. I have loved everything I have read by her so far, but I get that it's a personal thing.

Starting today

I've got this from the library but haven't had a chance to start it yet.

I read some more over breakfast and I'm starting to like it a lot. I agree - that Lindy, huh?

She's quite something, isn't she?!

What the Americans would call a piece of work.

Nobody throws a dinner party the night they move house. I mean, come on?!

But this is Fremlin so we perhaps shouldn't be so quick to judge... ;) I'm equally infuriated with Geoffrey.

She seems to have originated many of the plots of contemporary domestic noir, e.g. this one is a version of the 'cuckoo in the nest' plot.

Yes, that moving in party! And the strange sister! So much fun :)) Glad to hear you're being win over, Sid.

I think Fremlin gets Lindy's smug, patronising certainty about things of which she has no experience very well. Horribly accurate about some people I have met (and have since tried to avoid).

Geoffrey is annoying, but men can certainly be that susceptible to flattery, charm and someone who tells them that nothing is their fault. I'm finding that rather chillingly realistic, too.

(Do we need to take any more of this discussion over to the Spoiler thread?)

I'm underway with this now - only about 20 pages in but enjoying it


I'd prefer not to discuss the ending until we're all there but any other plot points seem fine to me. I prefer one single discussion but don't mind if we end up with more

I think anyone can be susceptible to flattery, not just men. However, Fremlin certainly gets that smugness of some people who feel they know things about which they know nothing. Once, while pregnant, for example, I saw a young lady on a train, with some male companions, laughing about a couple who hadn't come as the woman had 'morning sickness.' "Goodness, it isn't the morning now!" the girl crowed and I thought, give yourself a few years and look back on this moment....

Sorry if that was me, I'm only about halfway so was just musing out loud about there maybe being another side of the story with Lindy.

Of course women can be flattered too but Geoffrey does seem to be an old-school husband, not just in being sucked in by Lindy but also being so insensitive to his wife and her feelings.

Any thoughts on their ages? Given the teenage son, and the way Rosemond doesn't seem to have worked, presumably they're still in their thirties?

I'm also wondering where Lindy's money comes from - did I miss that?

Well, my son is 17 and I'm in my mid-fifties, but yes, people had children earlier then, so if she had him at about 21 say, then she'd be 36 or so?

Lindy is mentioned as doing fabric printing, and I couldn't imagine that bringing in much, so perhaps they were just left money by their parents?

I thought Geoffrey and Rosamund had a good relationship at the beginning. They both were laughing at the same things and expressing the same feelings about dogs. He also seemed to be interested in his son, unlike Norah's husband who made it clear it was the wife's duty to bring up the children.

Susan wrote: "Well, my son is 17 and I'm in my mid-fifties, but yes, people had children earlier then, so if she had him at about 21 say, then she'd be 36 or so?"

Yes, thanks Susan, that's what I expressed badly, that people married and had children earlier so they could all still be relatively young with Rosemond perhaps never having had much of a job before becoming a housewife.

Oh yes, the fabric printing! How could I have forgotten that ;)

Jill wrote: "I thought Geoffrey and Rosamund had a good relationship at the beginning. They both were laughing at the same things and expressing the same feelings about dogs."

Exactly - that's why I'm finding Geoffrey so infuriating that he can forget all that so fast.

And yet their relationship seemed largely based on a smug feeling of superiority to others and on jointly mocking and sneering. It was a fairly close relationship, but I didn't find them wholly sympathetic characters. I do think Rosamund is wholly understandable, though, and very well portrayed.

Sid wrote: "And yet their relationship seemed largely based on a smug feeling of superiority to others and on jointly mocking and sneering."

Oh yes, completely agree - like their mocking of tulips (one of my favourite flowers). But it's the way that Geoffrey goes from one position to its complete opposite - Lindy's garden full of tulips is creative and original now, in his eyes. Very disorientating for Rosemond, however unsympathetic they were as a couple.

For those who have finished: those coffee mornings are hilarious!

Apparently Celia Fremlin herself was a bit of a gossip, which I think her daughter mentioned in the introduction.

Lindy is a great character


Enjoying the first 40 pages, which have packed a lot in

Hoping we find out more about Eileen’s story

I have read about a third now


It’s another Fremlin masterclass

I have just read about the car journey to Geoffrey’s mother. Amazing how she manages to imbue a car journey with so much repressed tension and hostility.

Likewise the visit to the mother is perfectly evoked with the differing reactions to Jessie’s poem a stunning and abrupt conclusion to the chapter. Shocking even.

Loving it

Nigeyb wrote: "I have just read about the car journey to Geoffrey’s mother. Amazing how she manages to imbue a car journey with so much repressed tension and hostility."

I agree, such a deft touch without banging us over the head with the points she wants us to pick up - also ace use of a dog, I think!

I should finish tonight.

I am now past the bit where the book opens…


….the illness and the fever dreams….

…and very intrigued to discover how this plays out

Celia Fremlin is wonderful at setting these situations up but I am never quite as convinced by how they are resolved

That said, it’s always fun being along for the ride, and this is another supremely enjoyable ride

Nigeyb wrote: "Celia Fremlin is wonderful at setting these situations up but I am never quite as convinced by how they are resolved"

Yes, me too. Definitely more journey than destination. But this is the second book of hers where there's a step-change at almost 50% through so she's controlling the structure more than it might first appear.

I've finished - 4 stars :)

Saving plot comments till we're all finished, but some non spoilery things I liked is her usual portrait of the sheer grinding boredom of women's domestic work. Interesting how the coffee mornings show that that's driven by female cake competitiveness, not necessarily imposed by male expectations. A lovely example of internalised gendering, and striking that it's Rosamund who tries to get Norah to break ranks here.

I also liked the portraits of the teenage boys and their mothers' responses. I guess this is relatively early since teenagers were 'invented' as an age category - and the mothers compete again as to who is the most baffled and put out by their wayward sons.

All great points RC


I cannot wait to hopefully discover why Lindy is like she is. Surely something potentially quite dark or interesting in her backstory?

Like you, I delight in all the little details of domestic life during the era and in that milieu

As usual all the female characters seem to be observing and judging each other. I wonder how representative that really was. I grew up in a similar time and place, and recall a more supportive network of friends around my parents.

It reminded me of when my children were young at school. Mothers got SO competitive about parties, cake sales, etc. Also, I recall we had a bear that children could take home at the weekend and mothers vied with each other to take the bear to more exotic and interesting places! That bear went skiing, to the theatre, ballet, beach, etc. It got ridiculous and I remember a Lianne Moriarty book where one of the mothers (she'd obviously had a similar experience) LOST the bear! I think it was Big Little Lies. Anyway, yes, felt all too familiar to me...

I've started now - I am about a quarter of the way through, and finding it very readable, as always with Fremlin.

While Lindy is dreadful, I do agree with Sid's comment above about Rosamund and Geoffrey not being very sympathetic either early on, in the way they originally enjoy mocking other people - probably everyone does at least a bit of this, but it seems to be the basis of their relationship.

Just thought, also somewhat unusual that Rosamund and Geoffrey always seem to use their full names before meeting Lindy, maybe suggesting they are a bit formal and distanced from other people?

Good point, Judy, and also the way that Lindy annoys Rosamund by familiarising her name with 'Rosie.'

I guess there's always a certain amount of one upmanship in some groups. I'll ask my mum if she felt that when we were kids in 60s and 70s. She worked part time but appeared to have a vibrant social life involving coffee mornings, holidays with her pals, plus my parents often had people round, or went round to the houses of neighbours. I really don't remember any competitiveness but it could easily have gone over my head as I was just a young pup.

Judy wrote: "Just thought, also somewhat unusual that Rosamund and Geoffrey always seem to use their full names before meeting Lindy, maybe suggesting they are a bit formal and distanced from other people?"

Yes indeed. It made me chuckle how Lindy subverts that convention

Judy wrote:


"While Lindy is dreadful, I do agree with Sid's comment above about Rosamund and Geoffrey not being very sympathetic either early on, in the way they originally enjoy mocking other people - probably everyone does at least a bit of this, but it seems to be the basis of their relationship."

True. No characters emerge as particularly sympathetic however at the books heart is how an external character can totally derail a harmonious and stable relationship.

What's especially interesting is how Geoff/Geoffrey seems to undergo a complete character metamorphosis. I have met similar chameleon-like people who fit their attitude, behaviour, norms and even accents to those who they happen to be with.

That bear story is hilarious, Susan :)

Yes, nice point about Lindy 'weaonising' those shortened names. I thought at first she was just leaping over the boundaries to familiarity but actually I think she knows perfectly well how it grates with Rosamund.

Clever, too, that as Rosamund and Geoffrey are just as awful in their own way, we're disoriented in that we're not on anyone's side.